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Job
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Brutal Doom is good. Unfortunately, it possesses its own scale of gameplay balance. My goal is to introduce a full 32 map set for Doom 2. If it rekindles interest in Doom for veterans or introduces new players, either is fine by me. This isn't a thread for debates and trolling, this is a thread to make a fun mod more playable. Doom isn't dead, Doom is Doom and Brutal Doom is a mod. Brutal Doom is literally and figuratively nothing without Doom. That's the way it is and it's the way it will always be.

Ok, now that that's out of the way, who's in? Any questions?

Old Post 07-28-13 02:41 #
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Fisk
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Doesn't Brutal Doom have randomized monster spawners that make it impossible to balance based on that, or am I thinking of some other mod

Old Post 07-28-13 03:14 #
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Job
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I've played it a good deal on the Doom 2 IWAD the past few days and it appears to use the original monster placements in a given map.

Old Post 07-28-13 03:21 #
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Sergeant_Mark_IV
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There will be some considerable gameplay changes in v19, so I would recommend you to wait a while before starting your project.

Old Post 07-28-13 03:52 #
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Job
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Sergeant_Mark_IV said:
There will be some considerable gameplay changes in v19, so I would recommend you to wait a while before starting your project.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the information. Is there a place where the intended changes can be found?

Old Post 07-28-13 03:56 #
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scifista42
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What would be the map format?

There's in fact no reason to go lower than ZDoom: Doom in Hexen format. I'd suggest that, with the condition that the maps should be playable in both ZDoom and Zandronum (as Zandronum seems to still dislike certain ZDoom and UDMF features). Of course, it may be UDMF, or on the contrary, a "retro" approach may be chosen by using a simpler map format.

Old Post 07-28-13 07:05 #
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Glaice
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I think I beat you to it, if this was the focus of your idea.

Was it, or is something else?

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Old Post 07-28-13 07:10 #
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Job
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scifista42 said:
What would be the map format?

There's in fact no reason to go lower than ZDoom: Doom in Hexen format. I'd suggest that, with the condition that the maps should be playable in both ZDoom and Zandronum (as Zandronum seems to still dislike certain ZDoom and UDMF features). Of course, it may be UDMF, or on the contrary, a "retro" approach may be chosen by using a simpler map format.

I agree with you in regard to using at least ZDoom format. People can always disable mouselook and jumping if they want a more traditional experience. My guess is using ZDoom format and UDMF should work well for these purposes. Personally, I'm less interested in cramming this map set full of features that are only there for the sake of being there without actually enhancing gameplay.


Mr. Chris said:
I think I beat you to it, if this was the focus of your idea.

Was it, or is something else?

It looks like you did beat me to the punch in that thread. Not that I think it matters, since we can always make a new map set for BD. This community is fortunate to have a lot of talented mappers. Either way, I'll have to download what you've got and see how it fits with BD.

Old Post 07-29-13 00:31 #
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Fisk
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scifista42 said:
What would be the map format?

There's in fact no reason to go lower than ZDoom: Doom in Hexen format. I'd suggest that, with the condition that the maps should be playable in both ZDoom and Zandronum (as Zandronum seems to still dislike certain ZDoom and UDMF features). Of course, it may be UDMF, or on the contrary, a "retro" approach may be chosen by using a simpler map format.



Hexen format is obsolete. Use UDMF.

Old Post 07-29-13 03:34 #
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Joseph Lord
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I would like contribute with this but i have 2 questions:
1)In what versions i can play wads with brutal doom?
2)I have skulltag and the actual version dont works in this source right?

Old Post 07-29-13 03:54 #
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SavageCorona
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I think Super Skulltag's maps are pretty good for it.

Old Post 07-29-13 13:37 #
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Job
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It's good to see there are good reference map sets out there. I will check them out accordingly. In the meantime, I will also try and build an example level that will implement Brutal Doom gameplay balance. Anyone else interested in giving it a crack is welcome to. When the level is done, I'll post a link to the wad.

Old Post 07-29-13 19:31 #
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Glaice
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The Hardcore version is pretty tough on UV and Overkill (which has been sitting around for months without new content) is known to be even tougher than it.

MAP10 has over 400 monsters in it in comparison to almost 200 for Standard Doom 2.

Job, feel free to use the Hardcore version as a base for editing. Just remember to credit me since I originally started mucking with harder original Doom and Doom 2 levels as early as 2006-2007 and it has been a constant work in progress up until the last version of Hardcore's been released on the ZDoom page.

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Old Post 07-29-13 20:56 #
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Job
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Mr. Chris said:
The Hardcore version is pretty tough on UV and Overkill (which has been sitting around for months without new content) is known to be even tougher than it.

MAP10 has over 400 monsters in it in comparison to almost 200 for Standard Doom 2.

Job, feel free to use the Hardcore version as a base for editing. Just remember to credit me since I originally started mucking with harder original Doom and Doom 2 levels as early as 2006-2007 and it has been a constant work in progress up until the last version of Hardcore's been released on the ZDoom page.

Thanks for the offer, much appreciated. I may take you up on that. The biggest thing I found out while playing BD (Doom 2 straight through) on the default difficulty is that you need a lot more monsters and a lot less ammo/powerups. It was pretty easy because you have a lot of ways to inflict bonus damage on monsters. My concern is how editing a map for BD will allow you to have monsters specific to their wider variety of difficulty settings.

Old Post 07-29-13 21:05 #
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Glaice
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I tend to alter my version of BD so it is closer to default Doom HP and monster attacks without alternate/special attacks, especially for cannon fodder like the Troopers and Imps.

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Old Post 07-29-13 22:32 #
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Mr. Chris, I played part of your co-op map set. Definitely intense. While you've got the right idea on scaling the difficulty, I'm talking about an entirely new map set, not an adapted one. I've started up on the test map, but have a ways to go before I'm satisfied with it.

Old Post 07-30-13 05:33 #
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