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Jayextee
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How does one decide which map in the Slige Megawad to remake?

If it involves playing through the thing, is it okay for me to download one like, today, and keep it on my HD as I blitz through it then weigh up which map(s) are good candidates?

If so, I may give this a 'flick'.

Old Post 07-30-13 11:42 #
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Katamori
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I imagined that everyone generates two maps in SLIGE, rebuilds them and then, renames them in SLADE (or other lump editor) to the slot whatever he wants to use.

This last step can be done either by myself or by Impboy.

Old Post 07-30-13 15:11 #
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Jayextee
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Katamori said:

- Download the daily SLIGE megawad from: www.soulsphere.org/hacks/slige
- Pick any two maps that you like to do.



Might clear up what I was asking.

Old Post 07-30-13 15:14 #
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Katamori
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Oh, I didn't notice it. Thanks for reminding me!

Anyway, it's not much harder. You choose two slots, remake them, and delete the rest of the maps in SLADE! =)

Old Post 07-30-13 15:47 #
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Glaice
formerly Mr. Chris


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Impboy4 said:


Sorry if I sounded rude. Don't get me wrong, I love OBLIGE too but my personal reason why I never want to add it to this project is that the map layouts OBLIGE makes seem to always be confined within an invisible square or rectangle. SLIGE on the other hand makes layouts that is not bound by an invisible barrier and can go anywhere. Thats what I like about SLIGE more, it's ability to make more freehand layouts than OBLIGE.



V3 of OBLIGE had non-square rooms and outdoor features/caves/etc.

Old Post 07-30-13 18:15 #
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Impboy4
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Mr. Chris said:


V3 of OBLIGE had non-square rooms and outdoor features/caves/etc.



My point still stands. If you can draw an imaginary rectangle around your OBLIGE level, you can bet SLIGE is the better medium for level layouts.

Old Post 07-30-13 19:02 #
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Memfis
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Impboy4 said:
- Remake the map from SCRATCH.

Maybe I'm missing something but this rule sounds stupid, quite frankly. Why start from scratch when you already have a convenient base to go from?

Old Post 07-30-13 19:11 #
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Bucket
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Katamori said:
Which means that theme doesn't matter yet. At least as I could get it.
You might want to clarify the OP, then. This confused me:

I think we should do ExMy (Ultimate) Doom style for the theme this time.

Maps don't have to follow regular Doom episode themes & styles

Old Post 07-30-13 19:21 #
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Impboy4
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Memfis said:

Maybe I'm missing something but this rule sounds stupid, quite frankly. Why start from scratch when you already have a convenient base to go from?



Simple, if we tuned the maps from the original base; the wad will get rejected. Don't believe me? Sargebaldy's SLIGE tune-up contest got rejected immediately after it was released and the wad ended up lost. Doing the maps from scratch avoids that issue; All Slige'd Up made it in by doing that.

Old Post 07-30-13 19:48 #
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Memfis
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But that was a long time ago. Since then a bunch of OBLIGE tune-ups was accepted:
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15142
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15421
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=16172

Old Post 07-30-13 19:51 #
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Impboy4
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Bucket said:
You might want to clarify the OP, then. This confused me:



Kat misunderstood me. The episode themes are allowed, just no slots to claim for each one yet.


Memfis said:
But that was a long time ago. Since then a bunch of OBLIGE tune-ups was accepted:
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15142
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15421
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=16172



That just means Ty never updated the rules in the archive. The SLIGE rule is still there and it's still being enforced. My project made it through because they were indeed remade from scratch. I even verified they were in the readme.

Last edited by Impboy4 on 07-30-13 at 20:01

Old Post 07-30-13 19:51 #
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Memfis
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http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15421
This one was a SLIGE tune-up apparently.

Old Post 07-30-13 20:10 #
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Dagger147
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Memfis said:

Maybe I'm missing something but this rule sounds stupid, quite frankly. Why start from scratch when you already have a convenient base to go from?



I'm in the same boat. If I'm starting from scratch, what's the point in downloading the megawad? IMO, starting from scratch means deleting all of the sectors, things, etc. and starting all over again.

Old Post 07-30-13 21:11 #
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Impboy4
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Okay, let me clear things up: How we did it in the first installment was either have the original in a seperate window while remaking it in another or side by side in the same window and then delete the original.

Old Post 07-30-13 21:25 #
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Dagger147
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Impboy4 said:
Okay, let me clear things up: How we did it in the first installment was either have the original in a seperate window while remaking it in another or side by side in the same window and then delete the original.


OK. I think I got it now.

Let's say the original map had a 256 X 256 sector. I can create a sector that's 512 X 512 in it's place and do what ever I want with that sector?

Old Post 07-30-13 21:53 #
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hex11
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Then you're just effectively using SLIGE wad as a base, it's really no different. It's not "from scratch" at all. You're only fooling yourself with words.

What you can do is use SOME elements of the original SLIGE wads and discard all the others. Maybe that would be accepted in /idgames, because it may be different enough that it's not recognizable anymore, from any angle. Not in-game, not in map editor, not anywhere but via careful analysis.

Example: take SLIGE map and look at how the rooms are interconnected. Make a rough diagram on paper or in pain program of how rooms are layed out, as a simple flow diagram. You don't preserve any geometry or dimensions, because every room is represented as a small circle, and every corridor is a line. All other information is discarded - room dimentions, corridor lengths and angles, floor/ceiling heights, textures, things... ALL GONE!

Now you make a new map based on the flow diagram.

Old Post 07-30-13 22:31 #
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Memfis
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Wad consisting entirely of Slige edits was accepted by Ty, I linked to it in the previous post. There is absolutely no point in making maps from scratch, unless you really feel like that would be more convenient to you.

Old Post 07-30-13 22:55 #
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hex11
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It's possible he just didn't notice and it slipped by. Or maybe the map was totally different, so it didn't look anything like SLIGE maps.

So the question then is HOW different does a map have to be in order to go in /idgames? The README.INCOMING isn't very clear. It only says:



5. Don't upload auto-generated files such as would be created with the excellent program SLIGE. You really can't take credit for them anyway, and we don't have room for them.



So if you change just the textures in a SLIGE map, then it's okay? Or you have to change also other stuff. HOW MUCH has to change? WHAT has to change? You have to find out before spending time on maps that might get rejected...

Old Post 07-30-13 23:10 #
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Katamori
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Wow, it seems that the way of creating new maps make a long discussion!

Impboy: I definitely won't redraw the same rooms if I've already generated them. I'm sorry, but you should understand it's totally unnecessary. What if I clear every "things" and linedef & sector actions from the map and then I give the same flat and walltexture for every lines and sectors of the rooms and AFTER THAT I start detailing?

Last edited by Katamori on 07-30-13 at 23:52

Old Post 07-30-13 23:47 #
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Memfis
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And if some internet archive doesn't accept your Doom map then there was no point in making it and your whole life is a waste I guess.

Ty accepts basically everything nowadays anyway.

Old Post 07-30-13 23:48 #
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Impboy4
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Katamori said:
I definitely won't redraw the same rooms if I've already generated them. I'm sorry, but you should understand it's totally unnecessary. What if I clear every "things" and linedef & sector actions from the map and then I give the same flat and walltexture for every lines and sectors of the rooms and AFTER THAT I start detailing?


If you want to be part of the project, you have to follow my rules and redraw the map. The previous installment had no issues on this matter and I expect no issues with this in the sequel. That was how the project worked.

Old Post 07-31-13 00:15 #
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Katamori
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Impboy4 said:


If you want to be part of the project, you have to follow my rules and redraw the map. The previous installment had no issues on this matter and I expect no issues with this in the sequel. That was how the project worked.



Ehm. Okay then. I'm too strongly interested in this stuff to quit. =)

Old Post 07-31-13 00:22 #
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Job
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I'm not really interested in recreating a whole map from one that exists already. I figured that the point was to work over a SLIGE map and make it good? Not to sound like a jerk, but is there even a way to tell if I didn't copy and paste the sectors and things between Doom Builder windows and fix it up?

Old Post 07-31-13 00:27 #
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Stygian
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Sounds intriguing. I'll give it a go.

Old Post 07-31-13 00:36 #
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Impboy4
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Job said:
I'm not really interested in recreating a whole map from one that exists already. I figured that the point was to work over a SLIGE map and make it good? Not to sound like a jerk, but is there even a way to tell if I didn't copy and paste the sectors and things between Doom Builder windows and fix it up?


I'm sorry but that's how the project works. The original generated map is only used as a visual clipboard of what you will be recreating:

- Mappers may NOT touch the original map gemometry at all, but they can copy the things. The geometry is only used as visual aid of what you will be recreating.

- You MAY resize rooms if you find some too big or too small to work with. You may also add new rooms. Just make sure the original generated layout is visible in some way.

Old Post 07-31-13 00:40 #
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Memfis
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Lols, way to ruin a fun idea. If somebody wants to start a similar project but without this stupid rule about recreating, count me in. ;)

Old Post 07-31-13 01:47 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Jayextee said:
How does one decide which map in the Slige Megawad to remake?

If it involves playing through the thing, is it okay for me to download one like, today, and keep it on my HD as I blitz through it then weigh up which map(s) are good candidates?

If so, I may give this a 'flick'.


What I did was download the generated megawad, opened it in SLADE and made a list of maps that had interesting looking layouts. Then I just played those maps to see if they were actually any good or not. I'm still not sure if I actually want to use any of my selections, so I figure I'll do the same thing a couple more times.


Memfis said:
Lols, way to ruin a fun idea. If somebody wants to start a similar project but without this stupid rule about recreating, count me in. ;)

Have you ever seen a SLIGE map? You don't want the original geometry at all. (Or, honestly, most of the layouts it produces.)

Old Post 07-31-13 01:57 #
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hex11
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Memfis said:
Lols, way to ruin a fun idea. If somebody wants to start a similar project but without this stupid rule about recreating, count me in. ;)


How about making SLIGE themes instead?

Old Post 07-31-13 02:40 #
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GreyGhost
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Impboy4 said:
Just make sure the original generated layout is visible in some way.
That's bound to be a little difficult to verify if we're using the daily SLIGE megawad. I'd suggest we generate our own megawads, recording the seed and map numbers so anyone curious enough can re-create the original map.


Dragonsbrethren said:
Have you ever seen a SLIGE map? You don't want the original geometry at all. (Or, honestly, most of the layouts it produces.)
It does produce some odd architecture, this is still my favourite.

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a306/4m2gg5ddlzj4g.jpg

Old Post 07-31-13 11:14 #
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Impboy4
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GreyGhost said:
That's bound to be a little difficult to verify if we're using the daily SLIGE megawad. I'd suggest we generate our own megawads, recording the seed and map numbers so anyone curious enough can re-create the original map.


You can place them side-by-side when posting progress for proof. Your suggestion is null.

Old Post 07-31-13 13:52 #
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