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cannonball
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I'm not entirely sure what to do on map 32, I die at the same spot every time with seemingly no hope of survival, cyber appears and instantly shoots every time. I'm not even on fast monsters, I think I'm really just unlucky :/

Old Post 09-16-13 16:22 #
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pizzabob18
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Map 32 - Anger Management - 100% Kills/Secrets - HMP Skill.

Nowhere near as difficult as map 31, although this map still can be tough in places. It took me quite a while to find the keens in the level after wondering why there was no exit triggered yet.

Once the elevator rooms are cleared out, they become frequent spots to take cover in, especially once the mastermind teleported in. Design-wise, there is a nice wood theme and the map is certainly one of, if not THE smallest in the map so far. It's not my favorite map of the bunch, but it provides a reasonable enough challenge.

Old Post 09-16-13 16:50 #
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Matt534Dog
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WARNING: This video is very long, contains a lot of swearing, and is not for the faint of heart. You have been warned...

MAP31:

Old Post 09-16-13 19:19 #
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cannonball
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Map32 - “Anger Management” by Jakub Razak
Again it's the case of getting a foothold in the map which is the main challenge. Dying over and over to cyber rockets flying all over the place. The side areas and additional spawning monsters didn't offer too much resistance in the end. Though the red key secret is pretty much mandatory to make it out alive.

Old Post 09-16-13 20:43 #
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Veinen
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Map32: Anger Management

This was pretty fun map to blaze through. Not nearly as hard as Devastation but so many Cybers in such small places means it ain't exactly a walk in the park either. For pistol starters the secret red key and the treasure chamber it opens is a must though since that's the only way to get your hands on the energy weapons. Without them the opposition is simply too much to handle.

The start is hectic with two Cybers controlling most of the courtyard and other critters scattering the grounds to make the players life as miserable as possible. I always chose to instantly run for the lift that leads to the pit-Cyber's lair because he doesn't have the armstrength to shoot me from down there and I can freely gun him down with the SSG. Feel free to take advantage of infinite tallness by peeking out the tiny windows so that the courtyard Cybers clear out some of the mess that's gathering below before heading out on the quest for the red key. The pop-up Cyber is a total dick since sometimes he decides to shoot you instantly and sometimes you get the freebie BFG shot in with no problems. That happened to me a couple of times too and there's not much you can do about it really. The rest of the map isn't too hard to deal with since you're sufficiently equipped for Cyber-slaying and ammo is plentiful enough. Good fun overall for sure.

Old Post 09-16-13 21:00 #
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cannonball
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In the end I just ran past that cyber and when the spider mastermind appear got her to distract one of the 3 cybers in the central area, then disposed of the other cybers in the meantime before clearing up. This was what Rizera did in his uv max run. That seemed to work better than rushing the appearing cyber which had a 0% success rate for me. Maybe I'll do map16 later.

Old Post 09-16-13 21:10 #
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pizzabob18
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Map 16 - Leeds Castle - 100% Kills and Secrets - HMP Skill.

This level is probably the best one in the pack so far. Taking place in a realistic and very open-ended castle, there are lots of open fights against hordes of monsters, but the challenge is great enough that the level is very enjoyable.

There are a number of neat designs in this level such as the moving chains and blood sinks. The open-ended feel of the level combined with the intricately detailed castle-like fortress makes this one big piece of eye candy. Also, the whole outer battlements of the castle where you go to collect the blue and yellow keys were a major highlight for me. The part where nearly a dozen pain elementals appeared as well as around that same number of cacodemons proved to be a tough fight. The opening room battle was difficult as well.

The two secrets in this map felt like actual secrets for once, and one of them in particular took me forever to find. Overall, one of the most challenging levels in the set, but it's an absolute blast!

Old Post 09-17-13 01:59 #
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Demon of the Well
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Map 15 -- Miss Sporty - 91% Kills / 100% Secrets
This one is pretty ridiculous, though not really in an unpleasant way. The shift back towards tightly-packed corridors and linearity is very noticeable after the 180 in style that 'Dog Eat Dog' pulled, although there are a few marginally more open spaces and some odd setpieces to keep it from feeling too specifically similar to any of the past maps.

Stylistically this is perhaps the most representationalist entry in KS so far. While there's nothing quite as zany as the sector-axe from 'Klondike', it is very clear that the setting here is some sort of recreational facility, and each section within is readily identifiable as well--tennis court, shower room, swimming pool, sprint track, bowling alley, etc. Even the strange final section (only seen if you miss or pass up the secret exit) is evidently some kind of paintball game or the like, albeit one with all manner of zombies seeping out of its woodwork. As is the KS norm, it's very colorful in terms of texture usage and doesn't give the impression of taking itself very seriously (see: the silly megasphere secret in the pool/shower area). While it's not true to say it's the tiniest/most cramped KS map overall, certain parts of it really are EXTREMELY cramped, although some of these are just connecting passages and not the site of any real action.

In terms of combat it fares a lot like the set's earlier maps, albeit with the body count and intensity that has characterized the past few maps--some sections are almost comically bloody, especially the shower room/toilet area, which is so packed with assorted zombies and imps that one could imagine being able to turn on all of the showerheads without having any droplet of water actually hit the floor before a body. My favorite part was the second encounter in the sprint track area, a very interesting combination of a cyberdemon with a large supply of stagger-phasing imps, where the imps impede movement but also act as a replenishing meatshield against the cyb's rockets--pretty clever way of making what is essentially a long featureless corridor an interesting place to fight. As far as complaints go, I think the the cacoswarm on the tennis court triggers too early--very likely to leave you with no recourse but to pick them off from the doorway, or you could also go up to the commentator's booth earlier in the map and do it from there (I kind of wish they could come through the windows, but they can't). The 'paintball' game comprising the normal exit is also pretty tacky and trifling (although I imagine it's a bitch and a half on -fast); Doom just really isn't suited to pulling off this type of scenario.

Map 31 -- Devastation - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets
Ah, the secret map. On first contact one might think that it's the secret map for one of two reasons: A) because it's a huge spike in the intensity of the gameplay, or B) because it's actually basically just a map from the first episode of Heretic (which one exactly I can't recall) filled with Doom stuff. One would be mistaken on both counts, though.....we'll see this same degree of slaughter again later on in the WAD, and there's at least one other (non-secret) Heretic remix that I recall, as well. Of course, Kama Sutra is so quirky to begin with that trying to apply the notion that "secret maps should be strange or gimmicky somehow" to it seems a mite silly in this case, but if one really has to reach for something, maybe it's that it's simultaneously a homage not only to Heretic but also to a map from Hell Revealed (again, which one exactly I can't remember, although I'm sure the textfile probably mentions it), although this comes through mainly in terms of the grey masonry/riveted metal texture scheme and the general degree of slaughter than in terms of specific construction/gameplay features.

Anyway, it looks intimidating at first, but I really don't think it's a terribly difficult offering, at least not in terms of the scale specific to this particular genre of map (of course, it probably helps if you've played whatever Heretic map this level takes its blueprints from). Don't get me wrong, you'll in all likelihood be killed a few times at the outset trying to figure out (or to simply remember, in my case) how to survive the first 90 seconds, but once you've done that and gotten a foothold it's pretty easy to take things at your own pace, and there are enough bulk cells, rocket boxes, ___spheres and medikits around (usually found in caches rather than scattered all about) to allow for quite a few mistakes. There's a high degree of symmetry in the layout, which leads to some degree of repetitiveness (e.g. clearing out the caco clusters in the aqueducts or the groups of viles behind the southernmost red doors), but also carries the hidden virtue of affording the player many different avenues of approach/attack against the large groups of monsters in the main yards, particularly in the map's second half. Good thing, too, as infighting is surprisingly only of limited use in this one, or at least it was for me. One piece of advice: don't think the blue skull trap is broken just because it seemed like the gate closed on the wrong side!

So, after a frantic opening, it's a surprisingly strategic/methodical cleanup/extermination mission, which means it really does feel a lot like Hell Revealed. This, and forthcoming maps in KS, are the real reason why some folks hold that KS is HR's true spiritual successor.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention, this map has the dumbest secret in KS thus far--it's a non-mandatory monster closet (the one with two viles in it near the switch that opens the alcove with the red skull in it) that has nothing in it other than the aforementioned monsters.

Last edited by Demon of the Well on 09-17-13 at 04:26

Old Post 09-17-13 03:35 #
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Crusader No Regret
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Posts: 110
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Downloaded and played various maps years ago but hadn't been on my comp for the past 5 years or so. I'll stick to sharing any interesting features that catch my attention.

Map 4: HMP pistol start, IDDT used
The yellow key can be attained before the red one. I'm guessing this is intentional for making UV Speed really tricky to optimize.

My playthrough had a few bloopers. Having not touched the map in years, I cut myself off from the SSG. Evil medikit placement. In a different attempt I save the berserk for the health boost. I do end up using it for that purpose soon after a rocket launcher misfire. Map cheat reveals the soulsphere and megaarmor's existence and I figure out the jumping puzzle to reach it after some searching.

Map 9: HMP pistol start, massive cheating
I had a favorable impression from 2005 that doesn't hold up. Like the forklift but the rest of the map is so-so visually. Made it to the yellow key without cheats then my recollections kick in and I don't feel like replaying the map if I die. I had forgotten that it is possible to skip the street battle for the BFG until this replay. Safest way to handle the BFG ambush (though not perfect and clearly slower) is to obtain blue key first, clear out space behind the blue key door, then trigger the swarm and barricade behind the blue key door.

Map 12: HMP pistol start, 100% kills, 100% secrets
Already knew this is designed as a Tyson map and had fun with it. Before obtaining the berserk, it was all about evasion and barrels. The red key puzzle is interesting though there are so many ways to get past it other than the intended method thanks to source ports. I had the monsters in the indoor arena infight then punched out the baron. The archvile went down easy; got lucky with the RNG and pinned it and delivered continuous punches. Revenants could be a threat except they can be punched through the bars. Actually took more damage from imps than anything else. Had a dumb moment where I was up on the red key platform with around 10 imps milling around below blocking the way out.

This is one of the few maps in this set I can finish on the higher difficulty settings without saves or cheats.

Last edited by Crusader No Regret on 09-18-13 at 09:43

Old Post 09-17-13 04:54 #
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DoOmEr4LiFe
DoOm TiL dEaTh


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Leeds Castle - K:100% S:100%

I enjoyed the architecture of this level quite a bit. Every locale was wonderfully crafted and nothing felt out of place or strange which is weird because this is Kama Sutra and there has been very little of that for the most part, aside from Execution and Dog Eat Dog of course.

That being said, this map had a few negative impacts on me as well. It entirely rekindled my hatred for Pain Elementals. It made me start wondering if it was possible to create levels that are hard without teleporting hordes of monsters form outside the level. It hasn't bugged me until now. I didn't mind it until it starts to become a reliance. It seems like monsters are set to come in just because they can. The Mastermind serves no purpose in this map other than one more big monster to kill if you're going for 100%. Another example would be the stalls that kept teleporting enemies in after you've killed the current resident. That got old really fast.

This map had no shortage of rockets, which was nice because you'll be spamming rockets like no other and there is plenty of room to do so as well, thanks to the layout of the map. The Cacodemon trap wasn't as well implemented because even if I didn't have freelook on, I would think I would still be able to peg them before they get a chance to see me.

The secrets, other than the freebie, were well placed and the teleporter one in particular actually made for a true secret.

All in all this map was middle of the pack for me. I loved the architecture and texture use and the opening fight was fun and frantic. But some of the teleporting monsters suck the joy out of it and the Pain Elemental trap was most foul.

Old Post 09-17-13 05:22 #
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Demon of the Well
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Map 32 -- Anger Management - 101% Kills / 100% Secrets
I remember that the last time I played Kama Sutra this map actually killed me more than map 31 did.....that didn't happen this time, I was only killed twice, once by a point-blank lift chaingunner that I didn't see in time and once by one of the two caged cyberdemons essentially because I got sloppy and carelessly picked up a blur sphere at the wrong time. The reason for this low death count in what is potentially a rather nasty map is simply that it's the sort of map where foreknowledge of where everything is/what might be an optimal itinerary really takes the sting out of things to a greater degree than normal.

The importance of the secret red keycard is paramount, as others have mentioned, but it's also good to know about the insta-pop cyber near the last two Keens (I suggest going there early enough that there are still monsters in the main yard that can distract him with their fire, allowing you to BFG him in the back at point-blank range), the arch-vile that appears in the main chamber at some point, the fact that killing a caged cyber will cause a steady stream of arch-viles to take his place, and things like that. It's a puzzle-box sort of map; the main challenge is figuring out what to do more than in actually doing it. For this reason I can't say I was terribly engrossed with it.....I probably enjoyed it most the first time I played it, when it killed me all of those times and the challenge of figuring out what to do was still there.

It's not a visually striking level, either--the wooden theme is a nice change, but the architecture is purely practical and there's not a whole lot to look at. If anything, I think that perhaps this should have been map 31, and Devastation should've been map 32 (though of course Devastation had a secret exit already conveniently marked off in its Heretic blueprints), as that one has a lot more punch to it, as well as a lot more replayability, if my experience is anything to go by.

Old Post 09-17-13 08:04 #
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cannonball
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Map16 - “Leeds Castle” by Adolf Vojta
This was actually not too difficult, enough ammo especially rockets to put down everything. Not sure about the mastermind in my opinion and the pain elementals were a bit more of a slog. Still had a good time here. The cyber was rather easy. Strange one really as this is much easier than the likes of map13/14.
The secrets were actually quite clever to find for once :)
Oh god the next map..........

Last edited by cannonball on 09-17-13 at 09:55

Old Post 09-17-13 09:46 #
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Gusta
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Wow, I haven't known about this thread until now. It's very cool to see that you people play these 8 years old maps and write so many words about them, I would never expect that, thanks :-)
Btw. Does anybody use vanilla doom2.exe to play this wad (or am I jut naive)? :-)

Old Post 09-17-13 10:07 #
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Getsu Fune
formerly Hurricyclone


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MAP17 Cyber Machine

:o Have all my no-hit runs come and gone?

Starting out, the walls are lowering as I fight cacodemons, but I have to cross quickly or they'll simply fall. Lost souls on the side walls are useless :p.

On HNTR there are two barons replacing two of the cybers, in a small arena where blast damage is a cyber's greatest friend. Running around like an idiot smacking everything with a BFG till they die, and then waiting for the long ass crusher-like walls to lower or raise so I can press four switches in order to teleport out of the mess. And then there are archviles on steps, revenants in pools, and cacodemons coming in. There's plenty of megaspheres to go around, and if you want you can grab the megaspheres on the other steps too, instead of archie jumping to them. I like how killing the revenants leaves their corpses under the pools, giving the illusion of no revenant corpse, really cool. And then I wait, too long, perhaps? I fight one cyber and three barons and exit. Nice concept map overall. Final Time 5:14.

Gusta, well I'm not really using vanilla anymore cuz sourceports are more convenient. But since I'm playing this mapset in HNTR, which was a skill level not tested, I will say that there have been instances of monsters getting stuck on level geometry, not on MAP17, but some other levels, before and after this map. Like the imps on the bridge in MAP11 couldn't move for example.

EDIT: and I just realized that the reason that I couldn't teleport to the secret sector with the imps on the balcony on MAP16 was that the teleporter destination to there was not flagged for easy skill.

Old Post 09-17-13 14:21 #
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joe-ilya
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MAP17 - UV - scratch start - savestate use -

This map is nothing but waiting the damn lite pillar or the rocks to lower and then you win.
But there are hunders of monsters which make this fun and ridicilous at the same time to run around and wait for the pillar.
I don't like the idea in this map : just to wait.

Old Post 09-17-13 15:08 #
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mouldy
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Map16 - “Leeds Castle” by Adolf Vojta

This was a fun map from start to finish. Lots of tricky situations but with loads of scope for finding safe ways to deal with stuff. In fact I found that trying to play carefully was more trouble in the end than running into danger zones to find better positions, for example dealing with that courtyard with the teleporting snipers is made a lot easier if you run straight to the stairs that lead to the archvile and get rid of him. At some point a mastermind appeared in the starting area, not sure what he was doing there. But yes, an excellent adventure, and I found all the secrets which made a nice change.

Nice to see the author appearing in the thread as well.

Map17 - “Cyber Machine” by Adolf Vojta

hmm yeah, this map is not an enjoyable experience. I have strong memories of the first time I played it, thankfully that gave me some idea of how to cope with it this time. The first part with the stepping stones i somehow managed to do first time, just by staring straight ahead and not even shooting anything til i was across. Then comes the embodiment of tedium, shotgunning 4 cybers to death through timed doors. I seem to remember first time i played this map I messed this section up somehow by making the doors go out of synch. The challenge here is to keep doing the exact same movements over and over again without boring yourself to death. The following section is kind of similar except you run in a circle taking bites out of pockets of revs with a rocket launcher. There is enough time to finish them off before cacos start seeping in, the random nature of the cacos makes this bit more more interesting at least. Then cybers and bfg, I stumbled into the exit before I killed them all but I'd had enough of this map by then anyway. Not my cup of tea this repetitive and methodical style of play.

Last edited by mouldy on 09-17-13 at 16:06

Old Post 09-17-13 15:35 #
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Veinen
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Map16: Leeds Castle

Another good map, which at this point is surely not surprising anymore. The openness makes a return and even the corridor-sections don't feel claustrophobic due to open skies above. Visually it's excellent and I remember liking the theme and style in the last playthrough as well. I agree with others that this was much tamer than some of the previous ones though and the only part where I actually died was the start.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or what but I had some serious problems surviving the start here. I did always do it the aggressive way though and unleashed everything right away. Technically it isn't that tough of a fight but the damn Chaingunners always seemed to sneakily deplete my health to below 50% and then it was just a matter of a few undodgeable projectiles to take me down. Good times though and it's definitely one of the highlights of the map. The other memorable instance combat-wise is the Pain Elemental cloud which can be a major pain in the butt if you get caught in the middle. I, however, did expect it and dealt with it from a safe distance. The combat's good otherwise too but it's pretty tame and there's not much in the way of traps. The Cyber is also an easy one and so is the Mastermind this time. I found all but one secret, I figured the Imp ledge must be a secret but couldn't just find a way to get there so that's the one I missed.

Next up is the dreaded Cyber Machine, oh boy...

Edit: Heh, well it wasn't that bad at all actually. Only one death total after the platforming section and a speedrun-esque final time of 8:01. My improvised strategy for the second part worked unbelievably well to say the least.

Last edited by Veinen on 09-17-13 at 16:24

Old Post 09-17-13 15:41 #
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cannonball
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Map17 - “Cyber Machine” by Adolf Vojta
The start is quite inventive and gimmicky, sums up the whole map really to be honest. I quite like the time limit to get across to each platform. The cacos are a nuisance but shouldn't kill you.
The next area oh boy. This might not be too bad but I kept getting killed by the stairs and bouncing off the torches, why have these annoying bits of decoration which seems to invite death by sticking or bouncing off them.
The final area is pretty straightforward once you know what to do, simply circle the area and take out the revenants on your way round and ignore the viles. When the revenants die slowly pick off the archviles and cacodemons, then finally get the bfg, kill 4 cybers and the rests of the monsters. Job done.
It's ok I guess, but there are some annoying spots in here, but that's the same with many gimmick maps.
Luckily if my memory serves me well the next map is awesome.

Old Post 09-17-13 16:39 #
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pizzabob18
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Map 17 - Cyber Machine - 100% Kills - HMP Skill.

Oh boy, this map. At least with map 31 there was plenty of varied ammo, space to move around in, and room to plan strategies. This map can be divided into 3 parts, each frustrating to a different degree:

There's the lowering platforms section which made me for the first time truly hate cacodemons. I made the mistake at first of using the BFG on them. Big mistake, as I would later find out.

The second section is easy the most irritating, especially if you're trying to beat this with a pistol start. Shotgunning cyberdemons while waiting for their doors to open was both nearly impossible, and rather tedious.

The final section at least opened up a bit more. Although the revenant and arch-vile combination combined with the initial lack of cells certainly made this a hassle. Overall, not my favorite, and certainly one in which the difficulty lies more on how the level was executed.

Old Post 09-17-13 18:42 #
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dew
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Here's something silly for map17. :)

Old Post 09-17-13 20:32 #
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Veinen
Member


Posts: 470
Registered: 03-13


I just recorded something silly too, the demo can be found in the Speed Demos subforum's Kama Sutra thread if someone's interested :)

Map17: Cyber Machine

So this map turned out to be quite the opposite of what I feared. Not hard to one-go at all and while some parts may get a little frustrating it's generally a decent romp. The GREAT music track helps a lot too, seriously one of my favorite ROTT tracks of all time. The platforming part at the start is mildly annoying but manageable. The Cyber pens part is the hardest point of the map and the disadvantages of the blur sphere rear their ugly head at the start if you picked it up. There's enough health to supply an army though, so getting hit straight in the face does not end your journey immediately. Past that area it was smooth sailing for me and I don't recall dying once on my runs. For the record, I did five exits in total for this map. First was just the playthrough for this thread, then 7:28, 7:06, 7:04 and finally 7:00. But yeah, not on of the best maps this wad has to offer but a decent effort nonetheless. Good enough for demo-recording at least.

And yes, if my memory serves me right the next map will indeed be glorious.

Old Post 09-18-13 00:16 #
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Demon of the Well
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Map 16 -- Leeds Castle - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Hmm, had a little more trouble here than I expected to. I died 3 times, always in the same place--trying to gain control of the courtyard that has the 'generator' or whatever it is that requires the blue and yellow keycards in order to be operated. The first time I approached through the bloody pitfall tunnel right into the genny shed itself--I hadn't used rockets nearly enough in the first courtyard battle, and so was pretty much out of shells, and had to punch my way through the revs and the Baron to get in--went well until the cyberdemon showed up, and then I got toasted by the arch-vile while he drew my attention. The next two times I was killed just by trying to come in through the main door into that yard....unholy shit, that arachnatron perched up high and the aforesaid arch-vile make a great team, damn. Got through it with nary a scratch the fourth time, when I wised up and slipped past the mancubus in order to make it up to the vile's perch, post-haste. Payback time...

These initial struggles gave way to my quickly becoming an unstoppable force of destruction for the rest of the map. Rockets and cells are plentiful--in fact, I think they outnumber shells and bullets by a fair margin--and blue armor is apparently just raining down from the sky around these parts. While there was still a lot of killing to be done before the mission's end (e.g. the caco/PE ambush along the western walkway), with so much powerful equipment at my disposal, none of it posed any real threat. Despite being decidedly overpowered, I still enjoyed the map, mainly for its layout--I think it's neat that the castle's outer grounds essentially form a circuit around the middle that can be freely traveled in either direction, giving the player a choice of when/how to tackle things once the yard with the genny shed has been secured--in my indecisiveness I went back and forth, doing each side a bit at a time, which was just as viable.

It occurs to me that this is one of the most 'normal' KS maps in terms of appearance, a lot of its visuals and architecture being fairly par for the course for depictions of 'castle' stuff in Doom. This isn't to say it's bland-looking, though--I like the various 'House of Pain-esque' gore/torture scenes, for example. It does have some of that characteristic KS weirdness in terms of progression, like a spiderdemon that teleports into the starting courtyard far too late to be able to make any contribution, or the baffling combination of a free start-sector secret with a couple of real secrets. One of these, the imp-ledge that Veinen mentioned, is very well-hidden, and I only found it because there's a small clue to its nature visible on the automap.

Enjoyable map, if a bit front-loaded with challenge/back-loaded with supplies.

Map 17 -- Cyber Machine - 100% Kills / No actual secrets
Indeed, folks, it's THIS map. It's nothing but three short set-pieces, each more violent than the last, each basically a sort of action-puzzle like map 32 was. It didn't really bug me much, since I've played before and thus already know the solutions, but it wasn't particularly entertaining, either, particularly the tedious middle section.

The first section is a clunky platforming affair that must be completed correctly in one attempt, or else it's time to drown in the pernicious blood and restart. The key is simply not to become too preoccupied with the cacos that one of the lowering backpack platforms slips by and strands you. The amount of damage one takes here is kind of unpredictable, but most of the time most of the cacos will tend to hit the sides of the platforms rather than the marine--they usually seem loath to increase elevation to get a better angle on him. I think this is the least interesting setup in the map in theory, although in practice it's probably less tedious than the next section, simply by virtue of being so short.

The second section, presumably the one from which the map takes its name, might seem ridiculously unreasonable at first, but there's method to the madness--once you figure out that the four cyberboxes open and close in a very regular clockwise sequence, it's simply a matter of rhythmically dumping buckshot into them as time allows, with very little threat to the player. It's tedious, and there's something subtly irritating about essentially having to pick up all the shells around the torches way before they're needed in order to stay out of the line of fire (even though there are so damned many shells around the central teleporter that this waste is totally irrelevant in gameplay terms), but there is some satisfaction in seeing the four cybers crumble moments after one another in a neat clockwise sequence, I suppose. Also, I was irrationally pleased to realize that this setup is actually the inner section of the yard that comprises the last section, something I just plain failed to realize last time I played.

The last section is the most straightforward and the most entertaining, a perfectly symmetrical and again very HR-esque 'monster-pocket' setup, where again the best approach seems to be traveling around the yard in a circuit (direction doesn't really matter this time) steadily wearing down the clusters of immobile viles and revenants. Do it smoothly enough and there's plenty of time to exterminate all of the cacos that show up before the final four cyberdemons are unleashed. This last bit feels a little more organic, at least, mostly because the cacodemons are able to break the circuit by flying over the 'machine' in the middle, I suspect.

The last bit's alright, and the first two are interesting ideas on paper, but in practice this really isn't my kind of thing. Too "minigamey."

Fortunately, Cannonball's quite right, the next map is quite cool.

Old Post 09-18-13 00:16 #
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cannonball
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Map18 - “The Train Is Approaching” by Adolf Vojta
This map is very much in the visual style of maps06/24 of Alien Vendetta, which are 2 very good maps by the way. So then how does this one compare.
It's an excellent, large open plan map where keys and key doors make up only a small percentage of the map, the rest is free to explore throughout. Which gives many options on how to tackle this map. Once you get the ssg though the map is actually pretty easy with plenty of health and ammo to go around. In fact I died just the once on my first attempt trying to get a foothold in the map.
The various traps and encounters are easily handled with the weaponry at your disposal and the amount of power ups going around you can afford a mess up or two.
Great map, it feels like a lot of Gustas maps in plutonia 2 with this open planned feel, makes up for the last map for sure :)

Old Post 09-18-13 12:42 #
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mouldy
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Map18 - “The Train Is Approaching” by Adolf Vojta

Man, this map is a doozy and a half, a sprawling non-linear maze overflowing with monsters. That start is a real battle to find a safe spot and some decent weaponry - thanks christ for monster blocking. Finding your way around this place is largely done by following the sounds of monsters, since its all interconnected and they are crammed into every inch of it you can weave through the whole thing pacman-style clearing out the bad guys, and picking up any keys you happen to find along the way. It starts getting a bit confusing once the switch hunt becomes apparent, it isn't always entirely obvious what the switches are doing so a bit of exploration is called for. But I made it through so can't be that bad. The design is epic in its convolution, with multiple paths going in all directions and stairs and doorways everywhere you look, though each area is so varied as to stick in the mind.

Really cool map.

Old Post 09-18-13 13:58 #
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Getsu Fune
formerly Hurricyclone


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MAP18 The Train Is Approaching

*Regular Run*

Ha, I love that derailed train, makes a sweet aesthethic. Add to it the AV-inspired themes and it's a neat level. I know that some will "have to just walk away and seek" here. I've memorized where I need to go for this level thankfully, and didn't really have too much trouble. Gameplay, there's various monsters just about everywhere. No cyberdemons on HNTR though. Final Time 8:03.

*Reality Run*

Tedious, but since I knew the layout, it wasn't too hard. I just had to double back several times to find a good window where I can shoot and not get shot back. The indoor corridor with the zombie spam I can manage by staying out of sight then quickly SSG blast them. Since most of the enemies are imps, the chaingun and shotguns help out nicely. The chaingun gets its prime attention than other weapons for sniping as well. One hard part for this run was the yellow key, when grabbing it, there are imps who teleport, but then I had to watch out for chaingunners too. Long run but I did it. Final Time 17:13.

Old Post 09-18-13 14:23 #
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pizzabob18
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Map 18 - The Train Is Approaching - 100% Kills/Secrets - HMP Skill.

Now this is a great level! It heavily reminds me of classic megawads such as Alien Vendetta, and texture-wise, a bit of Plutonia. The level is very open ended and varied in design. There are slime filled caverns, monster filled warehouses, ancient fortresss, and of course, the levels namesake - a train which has a nice illusion of stretching through the caverns in the western side of the level.

It's also quite a difficult and challenging level. Just the begining fight alone was tough due to me still getting used to the scenery while having imps, cacodemons, revanants, and chaingunners all going after me. There was enough health though to prevent any frustrations similar to the previous level. Overall, a great challenge and a great looking level.

Old Post 09-18-13 19:23 #
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joe-ilya
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MAP18 - UV - max - scratch start - savestate use

Best map in the collection : Not crampy at all , open and multi-patched
lot's of smart placements , enough ammo.
I really like when the wad uses outdoor maps with nature and metal all over the map , really beautiful for my eyes.
The main goal in the map is to always move , if you don't you're getting scratched on all sides so I always run untill I get to kill like 150 of the monsters and then I can relax a bit but still not be safe like in COD.
I really like how the green trains match the hills and I really liked the one with the red key inside and an AV with imps which you have to shoot from the window.
And I liked that effect with the red metal door that looks like it moved.

Old Post 09-18-13 22:59 #
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Demon of the Well
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Map 18 -- The Train is Approaching - 102% Kills / 50% Secrets
This is a really enjoyable map, and a very pronounced change of pace. Whereas the vast majority of the maps thus far have all been highly linear (mainly excepting map 14, and 31 in its way, I suppose), this is a wide open and highly exploratory affair, providing little in the way of overt direction for the player's movements other than that naturally afforded by the disarmingly large mobs of monsters that will tend to chase him/her around everywhere, at least at first.

And that's what makes the map so entertaining: it's highly exploratory, but simultaneously fast-paced and bloody, with monsters of all shapes and sizes attacking from many different heights, angles, and ranges. Given all of the ammo and other supplies lying around it's not really difficult, but it's certainly invigorating and keeps you on your toes. It's not just all direct-placement either, as there are some surprises to keep you guessing--I remembered a certain dastardly insta-pop cyber from my last playthrough, but forgot all about that one sudden wave of teleporting revenants near one of the plasma guns, and was quite taken aback (and delighted). The open layout allows for a lot of variability as well, depending on which weapons you find and when, while also giving the player a great deal of free reign as far as general tactical approach goes, whether it be methodical, careful sniping or (like me) Rambo-style.

For some, the open layout might carry a bit of a drawback in that it can get a bit switch-hunty after a while, but assuming you take mental notes as you explore (or if you use the automap's marking function), you'll find that actual level progression flows fairly smoothly once you get the ball rolling, with the key-switches usually being positioned in such a way that the area containing the bars they lift is visible in the vista from the switch's platform. Indeed, the sticking point for most folks will probably be just getting the ball rolling, what with the very 'casual' placement of the blue keycard. Visually it's pretty easy on the eyes, too, with the influence from AV's 'Hillside Siege' and 'Clandestine Complex' being quite apparent (especially the former); it does a good job of fan-ishly replicating a very specific theme without feeling at any point like it's cribbing actual layout/progression ideas from its source material. The train is particularly cool, and although its path/crash trajectory don't make any damned sense, this is Kama Sutra (not to mention Doom), so let's not worry about that. My one complaint is that the BGM here (which I think is from Clandestine Complex?) bugs the hell out of me, but that's easily fixed with a little IDMUS.

Good work Gusta, this is one of your best.

Map 19 -- Natural - 101% Kills / 100% Secrets
Huh, weird. I have absolutely no recollection of this map whatsoever from the last time I played. It all seemed new to me...

It's sort of crass and spammy in the combat department, featuring a high bodycount for what is really a rather small level. There are more of those strange monster-blocking lines at play in various places, and a number of fights that just don't make a hell of a lot of sense, chief among them being the giant cluster of assorted hellspawn that hangs around outside near the exiting teleporter...just reading a list of what all's there it might sound like a harrowing and suitably climactic battle, but in practice all of these guys see you through various windows well before you can make it out there, and 90% of them will be claimed by infighting before they can so much as lay a finger on you. I don't mean to sound categorically negative, though, as there are some things I like about it, such as the theme of teleporting vile teams or that first cyberdemon--at the outset you can choose between taking the risk of dueling him with the SSG in that relatively small space or running past him, which eventually nets you some better weaponry but has the disadvantage of leaving the level's main junction point under his control, inconvenient when traveling between the two sides, to say the least.

The aesthetic theme is interesting, I reckon--very freeform, very "KS." It's apparently some kind of scrabbly, weedy, generally unwholesome garden that has grown over and around some marble/greenstone fixtures, sitting behind some derelict, crumbling office building......all of this apparently situated on a smallish floating island of earth, suspended in midair with a massive burning cityscape in the background. Weird, like I said, but I kinda like it. I do think the 'naturalistic' theme would come off better if some of the old stone buildings were a little less chunky/even/cuboid, but at least there are some nice curves and irregularities in the landscaping detail and the pillared overhang in the last yard and such.

Not a personal fave, but it was entertaining enough. Seemed like it had a definite personality to it, as well....wonder why I so thoroughly forgot it?

Old Post 09-19-13 07:55 #
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joe-ilya
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MAP19 - HMP - max - scratch start - savestate use ~

Nice idea with the sideways , I really liked the idea but the map is way too crampy which gives this map a negative score.
That crack in the starting area looks good but the sky looks wierd.
The rest are just neat ideas with traps that gets you once you get something , not much of a map.

Old Post 09-19-13 11:47 #
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cannonball
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Map19 - “Natural” by Adolf Vojta
That cyber near the start is a douche :P
This map is pretty good again, plenty of decent traps and we also back with the oddities like seeing the exit area crammed full of monsters. You go anywhere near that area and the place spontaneously turns into a monster bloodbath with the final battle consisting of whatever remains of the horde. Again the start area is probably the toughest with the cyber and the various stuff which spawns in when you flip the key switches. Like the gun turret manned by the chaingunner :)

Old Post 09-19-13 11:54 #
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