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Soundblock
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Posts: 234
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Hey, and happy halloween Doomworlders.

I've got a Doom map that just went beta. Currently just me and two of my old doomies that have been sent the file. Anyone else interested in maybe doing a bit of playtesting and providing feedback before its proclaimed done? Aiming to have it wrapped up before the year is out.

Vanilla du jour: ZDoom w/ no freelook and no jumping.

Old Post 10-31-13 15:55 #
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walter confalonieri
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ok, cool, but... pics?

Cool title btw

Old Post 10-31-13 17:42 #
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Soundblock
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OK. I wasn't going to post this online yet, but since I don't currently have attachment rights on Doomworld, I guess I'll have to. ;-)

Screenshot.

Files.

Old Post 10-31-13 23:40 #
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scifista42
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Soundblock said:
Files.
Gigantic map, apparently product of a great effort, but... Where are textures and music? They aren't included.

EDIT: Ah, I've read the text file. OOOOOOH! OK, tomorrow I'm gonna have fun searching for all those resources...

Last edited by scifista42 on 11-01-13 at 00:12

Old Post 11-01-13 00:07 #
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Soundblock
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Yeah, its a bit of a mosaic treasure hunt at the moment just to get the map running right the first time, sorry about that. 1st beta and all... I eventually need to look into this SLADE business to piece it all together into one wad, but I thought I'd throw it out there now that its playable, with a bit of effort.

note: the text file currently says the map contains deathmatch starts, but it doesn't. I got a bit ahead of myself while adding the eight player starting positions and forgot to synch txt and wad after the fact. Just a minor point... its definitely no more than a singleplayer map at its core, but with so little effort needed to throw that stuff in there, I'll eventually put them in.

Old Post 11-01-13 02:54 #
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Soundblock
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Second "public beta" of plasmaplant.wad is now up on www.monstercute.com.

I spooged all over SLADE 3, so there's a resources wad included this time, containing all the added textures. In other words - no treasure hunt needed to get it up and running this time.

All difficulty levels (and various resolutions - 320x200, 640x480 1280x960) have been tested multiple times, so its just a matter of polish at this stage.

Barring any unforeseen calamities (touch wood) the thing should be done by December 10.

Old Post 11-22-13 22:03 #
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kmxexii
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Soundblock said:
Second "public beta" of plasmaplant.wad is now up on www.monstercute.com.

I spooged all over SLADE 3, so there's a resources wad included this time, containing all the added textures. In other words - no treasure hunt needed to get it up and running this time.

All difficulty levels (and various resolutions - 320x200, 640x480 1280x960) have been tested multiple times, so its just a matter of polish at this stage.

Barring any unforeseen calamities (touch wood) the thing should be done by December 10.



How did I manage to miss the release of a brand new Kvernmo map???

Gonna check this out over the weekend, be still my beating heart

Old Post 11-22-13 22:10 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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I saw it on his site and was wondering when the DW link would appear. Could this lead to to a renewed CABAL map series?

I approve of the no freelook etc btw, I only ever really play Doom the way it was made to be played.

Old Post 11-23-13 07:25 #
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Soundblock
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Plasmaplant is just about done, and now entering final beta.

http://www.monstercute.com/1/post/2...plant-beta.html

I'm currently just doing spit and polish, looking for that perfect 100/100/100 run on all of skill levels 2-4 (HNTR, HMP & UV) to call it done. There might still be a few devils hiding in the details, but the list of known glitches is empty at this point. Error checkers are all in the clear and all relevant input received has been responded to. Most noteable add-ons since last build are monster co-op spawns and a more marked climax to the level.

Oh, and happy 20th! Obviously, I was hoping to have my new level completely sparkly clean and done by today, for the sake of symmetry and such - but the old "when its done" adage won out.

Old Post 12-10-13 22:24 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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I'll give this a go. Played through the Cabal maps you rereleased last night for the 20th and am curious whether that overall style is still present in your work all this time later.

Old Post 12-10-13 23:20 #
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dachauncinator
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*Jaw Drops*

Old Post 12-11-13 02:51 #
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Soundblock
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Ragnor said:
I'll give this a go. Played through the Cabal maps you rereleased last night for the 20th and am curious whether that overall style is still present in your work all this time later.


You tell me. Lessons learnt from building for a couple of MMOs and non-sector based 3D might actually not have increased my Doom level ability... There's bound to be a different feel purely down to sidedef limitations being gone - that really used to be the greatest struggle, as I remember Doom mapping pre-millennium.


dachauncinator said:
*Jaw Drops*


Hey, I've been looking for one of those!

/picks up jaw

;-)

Old Post 12-11-13 13:33 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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I'm playing it now and its fucking amazing. Will type more fitting thoughts later. Brutal as hell too, but then again, all your maps are :p

Old Post 12-12-13 01:03 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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Okay, ive gotten through most of it, and I have mixed feelings. The map itself is stunning, no doubt, but some gameplay aspects drive me nuts; the dudes in the walls everywhere, the stealth monsters, and most notably the army of 9862682068269 arachnotrons. This is where im stuck now, had to leap blindy in there to try and find a safe spot to actually fight back, but that just got me entrenched in more and more enemies. I dont know how I'm going to get back and the plasma gun ammo is running out with pretty much no other weapons to use. Its interesting having an entire level using the plasma gun, with the pistol to get rid of the wall assholes that snipe you endlessly.

I especially like the starting room with the ammo and medkits that lower to reveal more supplies. Is that green armour obtainable or is just for trolling? I really could have used that for the open hub area, had to charge off to the yellow circle dodging everything ever to get some armour. Lots of little oddities like the lost souls stuck in the chambers that bring in PEs and free lost souls when attacked, that don't seem to have any other purpose than kill percentage.

The map is also complex enough to start lagging the computer over time, in the arachnotron army area loading my save got insanely long, I had to quit the game to let my computer cool down. Surprised it didnt die outright with the sheer amount of plasma being flung everywhere

Also, those eye switchs that you need to find, two of them are already open and glowing, both of them have huge ambushes when pushed. Nice warning signs there!

EDIT: Bitch about an insurmountable problem in public and you'll magically find a way past it. Still dying to the spiders but now its not 3 billion plasmaballs from every direction.

Last edited by Ragnor on 12-12-13 at 07:10

Old Post 12-12-13 04:46 #
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Soundblock
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Ragnor said:
Okay, ive gotten through most of it, and I have mixed feelings. The map itself is stunning, no doubt, but some gameplay aspects drive me nuts; the dudes in the walls everywhere, the stealth monsters, and most notably the army of 9862682068269 arachnotrons. This is where im stuck now, had to leap blindy in there to try and find a safe spot to actually fight back, but that just got me entrenched in more and more enemies. I dont know how I'm going to get back and the plasma gun ammo is running out with pretty much no other weapons to use. Its interesting having an entire level using the plasma gun, with the pistol to get rid of the wall assholes that snipe you endlessly.

I especially like the starting room with the ammo and medkits that lower to reveal more supplies. Is that green armour obtainable or is just for trolling? I really could have used that for the open hub area, had to charge off to the yellow circle dodging everything ever to get some armour. Lots of little oddities like the lost souls stuck in the chambers that bring in PEs and free lost souls when attacked, that don't seem to have any other purpose than kill percentage.

The map is also complex enough to start lagging the computer over time, in the arachnotron army area loading my save got insanely long, I had to quit the game to let my computer cool down. Surprised it didnt die outright with the sheer amount of plasma being flung everywhere

Also, those eye switchs that you need to find, two of them are already open and glowing, both of them have huge ambushes when pushed. Nice warning signs there!

EDIT: Bitch about an insurmountable problem in public and you'll magically find a way past it. Still dying to the spiders but now its not 3 billion plasmaballs from every direction.



Haha, I know. Its funny how opening your mouth about something has a way of triggering new perspectives. Its like not finding your glasses or keys in real life - call someone else out about it and the location where you yourself misplaced them is more likely to reveal itself! =)

If you get the backdoor out of the initial nexus open (hint: deadend lion) then you get a much more servicable approach to the arachnotron traffic jam. The straight-ahead path you've opted for is meant to be discouraged, but after deliberating some I've currently left it open. Previously I used a blocking deco to keep that near-impossible path unavailable, but in the end I opted for player-choice. There is a marked pressure difference in this zone, between the three main skill levels.

That green armor is obtainable later, after you get the blue key. You could have obtained at least one of the suits straight away, if you hadn't stepped on the highlighted teeth in the floor. ,-)

There are quite a few optional encounters, like the lost souls you describe. For less monsters, circumvent the spinning floor-plates and don't hit red-eyed eye-switches...

The "pistol me" dudes in the walls everywhere is pretty much the genesis of the map, so I'm keeping those. :-)

Its my first time mapping Doom with stealth monsters being made available, so I might have been slightly overzealous about applying them, its been a learning process for myself about how they're best applied. Any future maps would apply them more sparingly.

I've noticed that lag-on-load you mention, it started creeping in about the last hundred builds or so (I'm on iteration 850 of the map right now). I could perhaps successfully slice the map in two to get rid of it, but that's a big maybe and I need to get this thing done before the year is out, so that blemish will unfortunately stay in. Lesson for the future about perceived map limits...

I've already added some more ammo and health to the sections you outline.

REALLY appreciate the feedback. Thanks. I'm in the process of making the better path to tackle those Arachnies more obvious.

Last edited by Soundblock on 12-12-13 at 13:42

Old Post 12-12-13 13:31 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


Posts: 2199
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I spent pretty much all day on the map and still couldnt beat it. I got up to the point where you find all 8 switches then go into the exit, for a surprise.. Your legacy of hard maps lives on indeed. Archviles are my biggest pain, there are many places I get completely stuck for a while, trapped in a cycle of death. One in particular is so obnoxious, I must have died about 30+ times to him. Oh it felt GOOD to blow him apart. "WHHHHHHYYY?" "Because I fucking HATE you." A plasma gun is really not that great a weapon for those guys, I always save the BFG for them, failing hat, rockets. 9 times out of ten for me, they wont feel pain even during a nonstop stream of plasma to the face

About the arachnotrons, that lion, I found it, but I couldnt do anything about it. Strangely, its opposite side requires the yellow key, but it opens on its own before that key is even available.

The SSG room, is this actually survivable the "normal way"? Eventually I just charged forward, grabbed the gun, charged backwards into the portal, dodging the bars trap and the RIDICULOUS amounts of dudes that pop up (Including yet another bloody archvile, whos a massive prick hiding behind his meat wall of shotguns and barons. Probably revs too). THe mastermind out for a casual stroll in the hub is icing on the cake for that, but she comes in handy later.

The piano area, I managed to get a mancubus to infight with another mancubus, sure he was wasting his time, but it was amusing. Pushed him into the well-lit non-blue area and kept him there. Any particular reason for the cyber there?

Other little thinghs I screencapped:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...80.png~original
This is how I dealt with the arachnotron army. Pretty cheap and every so often they'll shoot through the wall hole, but largely risk-free

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...69.png~original
Do these have a purpose? I keep finding them and I shoot every one I see, but they seem to have no purpose

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...65.png~original
Opening hallway in full lighting (I mildly cheated to see my surroundings in places, like the hell knights EVERYWHERE by the exit just to get a sense of where I'm supposed to shoot), is that supposed to be like that? The main picture is great, I saw those teeth the first time I went up that hall, but the little fragment at the side looks off.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...a2.png~original
The passageway into the arachnotron army, there is a small area there that is set to be a damaging floor. I this intentional? Its frustrating as hell, as you know damage doesnt come form sitting in a damaging floor, its a global timer in slime. Running through here would get me hurt every so ften, and until I figured it out, I thought there was STILL a walldude left somewhere. Or worse, the fucking stealth zombiemen. Worst things ever. Especially when you unleash a mere two of them in one trap >_>

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...62.png~original
Before I closed the wad from frustration and stuff, I got this to happen. She won O_O

Currently, despite the fact this map often makes me scream murder and obscenites and curse your return to Doom, I really like it and would vote for this in 2014's Cacowards. Maybe I should be HMPing this one in future.

On a sidenote; Lost Levels is in beta as well, you can bugtest your own Master Levels now :p

EDIT: The archvile that I mentioned killed me 30 or so times is the stealth archvile that appears on top of one of the towers by the exit gateways. He can cook you from an insane amount of angles, and if you teleport to the opposite tower, he'll likely blast you and often kill you before you can get off the tower and out of his LOS

Is it possible to hide all the monster teleport closets on the map? Theres brown lines everywhere and it messes up the look of the map. I'm known as the automap specialist of the TNT2 Devilution playtesters, so I tend to notice things like this more than others

Also, you should use MAPINFO if you don't already, thats the ZDoom way of assigning things like the level name and the sky (And if you wanted to, you could use Dead Simple's mechanic on this map using it. When I merged all your cabal levels together in the distant past, I had to do this to get both Mephisto and Bloodsea working properly, as they both used the Map07 slot)

Last edited by Ragnor on 12-13-13 at 03:16

Old Post 12-13-13 01:32 #
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Soundblock
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Posts: 234
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Ragnor said:
I spent pretty much all day on the map and still couldnt beat it. I got up to the point where you find all 8 switches then go into the exit, for a surprise.. Your legacy of hard maps lives on indeed. Archviles are my biggest pain, there are many places I get completely stuck for a while, trapped in a cycle of death. One in particular is so obnoxious, I must have died about 30+ times to him. Oh it felt GOOD to blow him apart. "WHHHHHHYYY?" "Because I fucking HATE you." A plasma gun is really not that great a weapon for those guys, I always save the BFG for them, failing hat, rockets. 9 times out of ten for me, they wont feel pain even during a nonstop stream of plasma to the face

About the arachnotrons, that lion, I found it, but I couldnt do anything about it. Strangely, its opposite side requires the yellow key, but it opens on its own before that key is even available.

The SSG room, is this actually survivable the "normal way"? Eventually I just charged forward, grabbed the gun, charged backwards into the portal, dodging the bars trap and the RIDICULOUS amounts of dudes that pop up (Including yet another bloody archvile, whos a massive prick hiding behind his meat wall of shotguns and barons. Probably revs too). THe mastermind out for a casual stroll in the hub is icing on the cake for that, but she comes in handy later.

The piano area, I managed to get a mancubus to infight with another mancubus, sure he was wasting his time, but it was amusing. Pushed him into the well-lit non-blue area and kept him there. Any particular reason for the cyber there?

Other little thinghs I screencapped:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...80.png~original
This is how I dealt with the arachnotron army. Pretty cheap and every so often they'll shoot through the wall hole, but largely risk-free

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...69.png~original
Do these have a purpose? I keep finding them and I shoot every one I see, but they seem to have no purpose

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...65.png~original
Opening hallway in full lighting (I mildly cheated to see my surroundings in places, like the hell knights EVERYWHERE by the exit just to get a sense of where I'm supposed to shoot), is that supposed to be like that? The main picture is great, I saw those teeth the first time I went up that hall, but the little fragment at the side looks off.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...a2.png~original
The passageway into the arachnotron army, there is a small area there that is set to be a damaging floor. I this intentional? Its frustrating as hell, as you know damage doesnt come form sitting in a damaging floor, its a global timer in slime. Running through here would get me hurt every so ften, and until I figured it out, I thought there was STILL a walldude left somewhere. Or worse, the fucking stealth zombiemen. Worst things ever. Especially when you unleash a mere two of them in one trap >_>

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...62.png~original
Before I closed the wad from frustration and stuff, I got this to happen. She won O_O

Currently, despite the fact this map often makes me scream murder and obscenites and curse your return to Doom, I really like it and would vote for this in 2014's Cacowards. Maybe I should be HMPing this one in future.

On a sidenote; Lost Levels is in beta as well, you can bugtest your own Master Levels now :p



Now, now! When frustrated, bump the skill setting down a notch. 30's too many deathcries, clearly. I'm having the most fun with HMP myself, but I like to have one kinda nightmarish setting handy.

On facing archies with the plasma gun - I like the fact that the player can't just rush them in this scenario, but usually has to dodge at least one of the fireblasts. And you're right, there's no BFG on UV in this map.

There's a few triggers to the lion-door, so what state that door is in how when and if you get there, varies. Like the opening door into the blue area, doors in this level have a tendency to open by themselves just as you're about to open them, also counting key-doors.

There's 3 cybos on UV - each to flood out a particular area with their distinct style of combat. The piano hall seemed a good spot, though this cybo has nothing on the blue-key one, for entertainment. Still... good for variation and a way to burn off some of all the plasma that's about.

Screens:
1 (80.png): Yeah, that window is definitely an op to pick a few of them off, though I personally wouldn't have the patience to use pistol on plasmaspidos! :-) Shame you missed the lion-door - I've put the shortcut-stopper back in on UV, which should reduce the use of that window... Btw - there are two ways in UV to obtain a singlebarrel before you get to that point - one in the brain spawning chamber and one near the end of the first switch "tentacle".

3 (65.png) No that's a stray texture, certainly not intended. Thanks! I never play with that fullbright code activated. /shivers

4 (a2.png) That damage sector was a leftover from an earlier test to try and find a way to discourage the player from entering the spider hell without forcing him not to. The sector's has since been reverted to normal and a blocking pillar's now in there on UV.
Oh, and the stealthy zombiemen are my new favorite monster! :D The rifleguys were always the wimpiest adversaries, so its nice to have a way for them to dish a little bit of damage back. They're a threat that can easily be ignored for a while, but when you spawn a big group of them in stealth-mode you really have to stop and pay attention. Props to the ZDOOM people...

5 (62.png) Awww... they're fighting again. Won't they ever stop bickering? ;-) I personally prefer dealing with big-brain through the row of windows in the doublebarrel room, but your way conserves more of the precious buckshot. I usually let the three loosened (unless you already dealt with them) archies and their tail of spawn hammer down the central cybo in and around the central nexus.

Thanks again, for a scalding review worthy of a little hell! I'm glad I put on my radsuit before reading this. ;) It seems there's one cornerstone epiphany you've been missing to solve the map more enjoyably - and that's discovering more of the key shootswitches dotted throughout. They're mostly marked on the mapview, with a jagged "*" next to the trigger wall). This goes for opening the lion-door and obtaining one of the early shotties. Shootswitches are also connected to the purpose of the flaming red skulls you've captured in screen #2 (69.png) - to mark an area either containing or connected to obtaining _the red key_ visible near the start (on UV anyways, the red keys are easier to get on the easier settings, in which case the flaming red skulls just hint at the location of treasure... and ultimately... great danger).

Oh, and I think I'll want to hold off on checking out those refitted Master Levels until they're done, if they can ever fit that final 8-story level into a 2-story engine. ;-)

EDIT:
- misc formatting.
- try popping that archie with buckshot from under the "exit" sign. Wait for him to light up, then shoot and dodge out of view...
- I don't think I can hide the double sided walldefs any better than the way it already looks. Its patchy, I know. I'm really picky about the mapview, so I know what you mean. Someone more knowledgable might know of a way but I'm working from what I already know or what's obvious in Doom Builder here...

Last edited by Soundblock on 12-13-13 at 03:45

Old Post 12-13-13 03:16 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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I added on a few extra bits that I forgot just as you replied apparantly. I did get the shotgun early, I thought that was a pretty cool little secret. I only really use the SG against wallguys, due to the scarcity of its ammo and the darkness of the map.

I wondered what the * symbols on the map were, thanks for the hints. I'll beat this monster yet!

Whats the music for this btw? Its really good and gets in your head easily. I was afraid it'd be D_RUNNIN when I loaded the map up..

Old Post 12-13-13 03:27 #
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Soundblock
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Ragnor said:
I added on a few extra bits that I forgot just as you replied apparantly. I did get the shotgun early, I thought that was a pretty cool little secret. I only really use the SG against wallguys, due to the scarcity of its ammo and the darkness of the map.

I wondered what the * symbols on the map were, thanks for the hints. I'll beat this monster yet!

Whats the music for this btw? Its really good and gets in your head easily. I was afraid it'd be D_RUNNIN when I loaded the map up..



The music is by Mark Klem, written for Memento Mori II. Quite a nice complex piece... Many thanks to him. Already mentioned in the textfile of course!

Old Post 12-13-13 03:34 #
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grouchbag
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Very nice map.Enjoyed it.

Old Post 12-13-13 08:11 #
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Chris Hansen
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Fantastic looking map with one of the most original, stunning settings I've seen in quite a while. But sadly, it was too slaughtermap like for my taste, so I had to cut it short. I just couldn't get anywhere without getting hammered to the ground. I guess I'm just too casual of a player to enjoy a map like this. But it was a damned nice surprise to get to (briefly) play a new map from you! :)

Old Post 12-20-13 14:33 #
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Soundblock
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Chris Hansen said:
Fantastic looking map with one of the most original, stunning settings I've seen in quite a while. But sadly, it was too slaughtermap like for my taste, so I had to cut it short. I just couldn't get anywhere without getting hammered to the ground. I guess I'm just too casual of a player to enjoy a map like this. But it was a damned nice surprise to get to (briefly) play a new map from you! :)



Thanks for the compliments. Its an exhausting map to get through, but I kind of have to wrap it up along the lines of the contours that were drawn when I set out. I don't think I'll ever map a map of this size again.

I've tried to ease up the pressure some (while retaining the challenge factor), especially on easier modes, so when the thing is done (I was hoping to have it out tomorrow - definitely calling it done this year anyway) - try it on an easier setting!

Old Post 12-21-13 02:59 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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Hope it does get a final release this year, as Ive nominated it for a Cacoward :p

Old Post 12-21-13 10:01 #
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Soundblock
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Ragnor said:
Hope it does get a final release this year, as Ive nominated it for a Cacoward :p


Hehe, thanks. Last couple of tests are looking good, so maybe tomorrow. Btw, I put some meager cover and a health boost on that one tower you pointed out - so the archiefight around there now has better options.

Old Post 12-21-13 11:34 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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Cool, that bastard gave more trouble than everything else combined. Sorry I never fully completed the wad, but Ive also been busy with PSX Lost Levels and TNT2: Devilution testing, but what I did find was helpful in the end.

Old Post 12-21-13 11:50 #
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