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BaronOfStuff
Senior Member


Posts: 1250
Registered: 06-08


E1M9:
I don't really have many words for my experience of this small diversion. With the only concern being how to handle the initial skirmish before a bunch of slapheaded tossers emerge from the underground (and try to brute-force their way to victory), the remaining 90% or so of the map consists of little more than a room-by-room cleanup operation, and one which involves a lot of barrel use.

That being said, I was still watching corners like a hawk (fear the mighty Shotgun Guy!) and descending any stairways with much more care than usual, so I suppose that explains the uneventful nature of my time here.

Old Post 12-03-13 22:37 #
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Cynical
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Posts: 235
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Went ahead and finished this up, since thanks to a nasty stomach bug I've got nothing better to do...

E1M7:
That "not-secret" Computer Map is a surprisingly tough bit of platforming, especially for 1993. Without it, though, I don't think I'd have ever figured out how to get to the actually pretty useful "outside" secret. The combat here is nothing to write home about, but it KDitD, so that's about what's expected. Amusingly, I didn't use the rocket launcher a single time in this level.

E1M8:
Time has not been kind to the boss fight here. Two barons with a shotgun is about as far from intimidating as you could get to the 2013 Doomer. From the pistol start, honestly the Pinkies at the start are the biggest threat. Plus, that Invis that you have to work so much for is pure comedy for a modern player.

But thematically, I love it. The Phobos base blends into something more sinister where you fight the bruiser brothers. Then the walls lower, and you're on a desolate Mars-scape. The teleporter is a Baphomet; the first touch of demonic imagery in Doom. And how does it end? You die. And the intermission text hammers it home; despite your heroics, you didn't win. Especially brilliant for a shareware game that needed some "hook", but it's a striking chapter ender in any case.

Old Post 12-03-13 23:18 #
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Getsu Fune
formerly Hurricyclone


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E1M5 Phobos Lab

And here's my favorite level in Knee Deep in the Dead. It has quite a lot of demons to slaughter in short time in comparison to other maps in the episode. Especially the western side is filled with enemies, but with the barrels nicely placed next to zombies, it allows for some good frags. That staircase room can be a tough spot especially when the monster closets open up. And then there's the dark room at the end with many zombies and some spectres to kill. The light visor makes its first appearance in a secret in this dark room however, so that's quite nice. The computer map also makes its first appearance in this map as well.

Pistol starting this map, I think it's best to kill a shotgun guy and get his weapon, then get the two secrets that have the shotgun and rocket launcher, trying not to get overwhelmed by imps in the process. The hordes of monsters in the staircase room can be quickly killed by some well-timed rockets then. The chaingun comes late for pistol starters (although it's before a corridor where it's well-used) and there's no chainsaw either. But Phobos Lab's high monster count and variety are just awesome to contend with.

Old Post 12-04-13 13:03 #
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joe-ilya
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Posts: 2053
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E1M3- John spiced this map up with more use of the imps, :D.
The map countains a secret exit which is really complicated with another secret guarding it. I have to admit I never found the secret exit until I watched some videos about that.
The map is just another E1 map, it's flooded with secrets and monsters (good thing there are barrels) The map would be more fun if the start area with the nukage in the center didin't have those fences, it just makes it more challanging for the fights and barrel shooting, and that pit is unescapeable so that's the reason.

E1M9- Boring design, but I love how every room has challanges that go harder and harder. The imp cage is the most memorable of all the other stuff there, because it's in the center and you go there everytime you get a keycard, any one wondered who trap'd the imps in the cage? ;)

E1M4- This map has downss and ups, but mostly ups. Heh, a secret right at the left of the starting room, how creative, when I tried to shoot the barrels above the first room they just exploded and fell down too and it was wierd, is that some kind of bug?
That shortcut to the yellow key is a gem, seriously it's well hidden and thought out as well.
The maze was fun, but its too bland.

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Old Post 12-04-13 13:18 #
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Jayextee
Darth Jrrr


Posts: 1250
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E1M5 - 100k/96i/100s - 8:18

Playing this with Doom Forever and the 3DO version's soundtrack made for one hell of an experience, I gotta tell ya.

What's clear about this is, by this point the various undead soldiers and demons know you're here. They know for sure, because an ambush is staged at the front of this area; which is hectic for pistol-starters who want to wrestle the shotgun out of its owners cold dead hands. My kinda pistol start.

Nothing is accessible either. Everything seems to be closed to you; access bridge to the yellow key is lowered, main complex entrance barred (and an ambush waiting by the access switch). You've killed a bunch of hellspawn and they're pissed.

To wit, the've also knocked the lights out in a barrel storage area. Somebody doesn't want you to get to Central Processing. Why?

Hidden in the annals of this lab is another secret pentagram-style design. This one appears to be more developed and focused than the one in the military base, as it teleports YOU. Mind you don't fall foul of any ill-effects, now...

Linear as shit (until the blue key is acquired, anyhow) but I love this stage. A standout of this episode? Maybe. I do love the penultimate three maps though, a lot.

Old Post 12-04-13 13:57 #
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Jimothy
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Posts: 124
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Now this is a megawad I'll happily play!

Playing Ultimate Doom on UV! (I'm still fairly new to UV, HMP is still my bud, but I'm doing UV for the sake of this playthrough)

Note: I'm doing only a very small fraction of the Dobu Challenge in that if I die, I'm done with the episode.

E1M1: Hangar
100% Kills
66% Itmes
75% Secrets

This one's a classic. To me, it's the face of Doom. It's even more so when you've got four shotgunners itching to blow your face off in the room where you grab the green armor.

While the enemy count is a rather staggering 27 compared to the 6 or so you see on HMP or lower, the shotgun I got from the first armor room via killing the shotgunners made the map a little easier. I didn't take too much damage (lowest I got was 92% health with about 98% armor lolol), so it was a good run of this map.

E1M2: Nuclear Plant
96% Kills
47% Items
66% Secrets

E1M2 ups the ante, with 52 more monsters than E1M1, and a whole lot of hitscanners to boot. Right away, I squared away with quite a few former humans, and getting the chaingun secret required me wading through a load of shotgunners.

After I got the chaingun, everything became a lot easier. I went for the chainsaw secret (and probably missed a few baddies along the way), and then I went to finish off the map. After I knocked out the hitscanners in the next-to-last room, I jumped down and wiped out the imps. The rest of the map was a piece of cake.

E1M3: Toxin Refinery
72% Kills
55% Items
idklol% Secrets

Remember what I said about E1M2 raising the bar? Well, scratch that: E1M3 took that and kicked it in the ass. Hard. I was immediately faced off with a plethora of shotgunners, former humans, and even a pinky. The pinky itself wasn't an issue, but all the hitscanners really didn't help.

When I moved forward in the map, it was quite a nightmare trying to get through. I got the soulsphere secret, the yellow key (I still don't know what it's for), the ammo/rocket secret, and the hidden exit secret. The hidden exit was actually easy, as I had used the hidden window in the second room in order to blast away the hitscanners, though that didn't stop a closet trap with a pinky and an imp to pop up on me.

E1M3 was definitely a challenge. Next time, when I post, I'll go from E1M9 to E1M5.

Old Post 12-04-13 17:14 #
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Veinen
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Posts: 411
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E1M4: Command Control - 100/zing/100

Pretty tame if you know what you're doing. A peaceful start means no extra threats for strollers either and after that you can pretty much go at your own pace. Features the most memorable maze in E1, used to be very scary even if it's nothing but brightly lit grayness everywhere. I actually didn't know about the possibility to skip the entire thing by strafejumping unitl very recently.

E1M5: Phobos Lab - 100/-/100

So yeah, this is my E1 favorite as well. Great music track, lovely layout and fun combat. Start is a pretty hectic one if you're pistol starting and getting that shotgun right away is pretty essential. I was a bit worried about getting flanked in the stairwell area beyond the yellow door seeing as my doomguy's still learning to walk, so I chose to rush into the secret(s) and see what happens. This cowardly tactic worked like a charm and little health was lost during the battles. The rest of the map doesn't really have many dangerous situations left and I strolled through it pretty effortlessly. Cool dark "maze" in the end, another one of those spots I remember from my playthroughs as a kid.

Old Post 12-04-13 18:11 #
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Dime
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Posts: 152
Registered: 07-13


http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/3336205

Dobu challenge episode 1

-I was able to get a lot more secrets than I thought considering no running and strafing.

E1M1

-Extremely memorable map, if the areas and music had not been burned into your head by this point you're likely an exception. Map starts out quite nasty with the sheer amount of shotgunners but the lovely mega-armor secret makes up for it. I wonder which room in this map has been copied the most???? The zig-zag pattern over nukage or the initial opening room.

E1M2

-Ahhh, the nuclear plant. I remember becoming frustrated as a kid not knowing for the longest time how to activate secrets to get outside the map. On the other hand, it's extremely satisfying when you eventually figure it out. This map is fairly benign compared to map 1 aside from the ending "arena" fight with imps and zombie gunners.

E1M3

Possibly my favorite map in episode 1 not including E1M7. This map introduces the pinky monster in a rather enclosed area. Luckily the barrel placement throughout this map tend to be incredibly useful in thinning out numbers. The high points in toxin refinery have to be the secrets and secrets within secrets. So many locations that you can see or look into but not enter. It's staggering how much of this map is missed if you do a linear dash to the blue key and go straight to the exit.

Will edit in more maps later!

Old Post 12-04-13 18:19 #
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Magnusblitz
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Posts: 813
Registered: 12-12


E1M9: Military Base
100% kills, 1/2 secrets, 5 deaths


This one hasn't aged well, as the room-hallway-room-hallway nature is readily apparent today. Still, some good fights, and who could forget the pentagram trap?

Death #1 came grabbing the red key (and getting pasted by the ambushers behind it), death #2 came getting sandwiched by the spectres behind the blue door. There's a block monster line just outside the blue door though, which provides a safe (if lame) way to dispatch them.

I really dislike the ending here, as there's no radsuit, so taking sludge damage is unavoidable. I was only at about 30% health when I needed to do so, so that plus -fast imp fireballs led to several more deaths. Not fun.

This is the first level with a secret I didn't remember - never did see that chaingun secret before (though it is pretty obscure).

E1M4: Command Control
100% kills, 3/3 secrets, 0 deaths

I've always loved the opening room here, with its windows, multiple levels, etc. I came in expected to tell everyone else they were wrong and this level is awesome, but no, it's pretty bland for the most part after the start. It also feels somewhat short, despite the layout - maybe the relatively low monster count? The maze especially is kinda bland, and it's not clear what it's supposed to be (ventilation shaft?) Even for Doom, it's pretty abstract, and a bit too brightly lit to be creepy.

I miss the swastika computer room, though I can understand why they removed it. I always loved Flynn Taggart's response in the books upon finding it.

There are some devilish secrets here - I remember as a youngster always having trouble with the soulsphere lift.

No deaths, but got pretty low at the end. Thankfully there's plenty of extra health/armor to patch up with.

E1M5: Phobos Lab
100% kills, 8/9 secrets, 0 deaths

Definitely one of the best levels in E1, though I'd wager E1M7 will give it a run. Nice creepy music and lots of dark areas.

In today's day and age, I think needing to pick up and item to make a required bridge raise would be heavily frowned upon. Also different is how stacked some of the secrets are - blue armor, shells AND a rocket launcher in one secret? Wow. There's also some tricky platforming in the sludge area that can be easily missed, but it's not tagged as secret.

The glowing maze is always tough, especially on -fast. Thank god for those goggles (a much overlooked powerup in today's maps, sadly).

Old Post 12-04-13 20:06 #
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cannonball
Senior Member


Posts: 2219
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E1M4- “Command Control” by Tom Hall & John Romero
I don't mind this map, though though the author preferences in map design do stand out here with lots of little corridors as opposed to the typical Romero design. The map isn't too hard, on fast the maze area is the most dangerous as you can get cornered easily, 2 deaths.
E1M5- “Phobos Lab” by John Romero
One of the best E1 Maps, great design and lots to shoot. No deaths here, the armour at the start is probably the reason as it makes getting started so much easier.

Old Post 12-04-13 20:31 #
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BaronOfStuff
Senior Member


Posts: 1250
Registered: 06-08


E1M4:
Once more, not much to say. I don't think E1 is going to give me much trouble until E1M7, when the hitscans will really start piling up.

The Shotgun Guys here, for all their intimidation factor, continue causing unrest within their own ranks instead of hitting me. I'm not complaining, although it wouldn't make for an exciting or interesting video series so far. The infamous maze area isn't much of a problem either, and I'm even treated to the rare sight of Imps turning against one another after another barrel gets hit in the crossfire.

That reminds me; while the exploding barrels are still proving their worth, I'm going to start shooting them on sight. Given the frequency of these braindead bozos setting them off by being crap shots, I'm taking a precaution before I end up pasted over the walls when a Zombieman misses me and strikes a can of exploding green shit by my side instead.

Old Post 12-04-13 20:47 #
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Jaws In Space
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Posts: 342
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The Ultimate Doom E1M6: UV, Pistol Start

This map appears to be Recreation & Training Center from the Doom bible, it first appeared as E1M5 of the 0.4 Alpha, but was moved to E1M9 for the 0.5 Alpha. An interesting design about this map was the large Octagon layout, that took up a large portion of the map in the alphas. I've noticed that a lot of people think that the auto map image is supposed to be based off of this map, but in fact the Auto Map image is actually based on the intermission screen of the 0.5 Alpha.

Along with E1M4 I have no memory of this map from my first playthrough. Putting my thoughts together like this I've noticed a correlation of how much I liked a map to how much I remember it. E1M4 & E1M6 happen to be my least favorite maps from the episode & I simply don't remember them. So it's safe to say that my favorite maps have not changed since I first played Doom in 1995, though there are a few exceptions.

While overall I think this is the wort map from E1 there are some things that I do like about this map, I think this map has the best designed exit room from E1, & everything past the yellow keys & the outside area are all enjoyable. The red key room is okay, I think it could have used some spicing up design wise, it's really just a big square. The Blue key room is bad & the maze in this map is the worst, enemies often get stuck trying to follow me in that area so I often leave this map without 100% kills.

Old Post 12-04-13 22:34 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Posts: 2408
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E1M9: Military Base
Do you think the name is poking fun at how boxy and room-corridor-room it is? Marvel at the first monster teleport trap in Doom.

This map is the first one where it feels like the gameplay is unaltered on lower difficulties. Sure, there are less monsters, but everything plays pretty much the same. E1M2 had this to an extent, too. It introduces the spectre, which is cool since it's like there's a new monster in the secret level. You miss that on UV.

The only significant change for the Jag version was removing the teleport trap. This is since monsters don't react to sound in that version and the trap didn't work, so they put in a simple monster closet (with a berserk pack!) to replace it.

E1M4: Command Control
Holy shit there are no enemies at the start on HNTR. None. It's incredible. At least HMP gives you a couple zombiemen. Actually though, outside of the start, this map seems to be starting a trend where HMP is UV-lite, while HNTR stays very easy. It carries over to the next map, I'm curious if HNTR also ramps up towards the end or not.

In terms of changes, the one everyone is familiar with is the swastika: mirrored in v1.2 because Romero got it backwards, then censored in v1.25. The Jaguar version also censors it, but lazier, by lopping off two "arms". The Jag version removes the center room at the start and adds a third corridor to the top in its place, connecting them all and the center. It's a strange change that doesn't really improve the level at all. There's also a new corridor running along with "back" of the maze, which I guess makes it flow a bit better. And the new texture theme, of course, STAR panels replaced with big brown bricks.

What really gets me in this map, though, is how complete it is in the v0.5 alpha. Even the thing placements are very similar. This is easily Tom Hall's best work and it's no surprise Romero converted it into an E1 level.

E1M5: Phobos Lab
Like E1M4, this level has no opposition at the start on HNTR, while HMP is easier than UV. After the start, HNTR continues its easy trend, but HMP is nearly as tough as UV.

Did you know this was Shawn Green's favorite deathmatch map? Maybe that explains the change it got in v1.2, adding that new hub with the teleporter that connects the area below the lift, the center, and the end together. The teleporter annoys me, it serves almost no purpose, taking you back to the start, and kind of wrecks the surprise of the first teleporter in E1M8. Oh well, at least it's a secret.

The Jaguar version of this map retextures it in beige bricks and wooden doors, but otherwise leaves things alone, with the exception of removing the light amp. The area it's placed in is completely pointless in that version, they couldn't even stick a soul sphere or some armor in there for you...

Old Post 12-04-13 22:48 #
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SteveD
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Posts: 1193
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E1M4 – Command Control. First Run, Kills – 100, Items – 80, Secrets – 66. Time – 17:23. End Health – 105, Armor 102. Death Count – 23

E1M4 – Command Control. Second Run, Kills – 100, Items – 80, Secrets – 100. Time – 13:22. End Health – 104, Armor 100. Death Count – ZERO!!!!


I was all ready to do a write-up about what a surprise nightmare this map is, when I started reading Magnus and cannonball talking about doing it easy, important since they are both playing on –fast, too. Now, I’ve broadcast loudly enough that I’m no Doom God, but among keyboarders, I’m probably not that bad, so how come Magnus and cannonball breeze through this thing when I get killed 23 times on my first run? Well, it has everything to do, perhaps, with that secret count of 66%, because from the beginning to the end of that slaughterfest, I was crying for health and ammo, and that was because I missed the very first secret! ;D

I never hesitate to be self-referential or to pimp my shit, so allow me to say that the people who kindly playtested my Abcess maps pointed out how I tended to stash health, ammo and important weapons in secret areas, making the maps occasionally starved for those items, and in some cases – Map04 – the ending was unbeatable if you didn’t find a few secrets. Well, here’s my come-uppance, courtesy of some brass-knuckle punches in the face. :D But . . . missing that first secret – Backpack, Medikit and Shell Box – made this map absolutely fuckin’ amazing! I had so much fun getting my ass blasted from one side of this map to the other. There was no strategy that worked well thanks to all the bullets, buckshot and fireballs flying around me at the start. If I went towards the Blue Armor area there was too many hitscanners, plus a couple Pinkies that close on you with the speed of a Top Fuel Dragster on –fast. I died several times proving that I couldn’t beat that area with a blunt-force assault. Running towards the path to the Soulsphere led to a rain of Imp Fireball Death, because even if I dodged a few of their fireballs, I had troopers and Imps closing in behind me, pushing me forward, and that dinky pistol which Jayextee loves so much just can’t kill things fast enough. ;D Thus, the only thing that sorta worked, the path Tom Hall and John Romero pushed you towards, was the center entrance with the devilishly clever lift (a Pinkie activated it, rode up, and killed me later). And that was no picnic, either, because this is the first map where roamers become a real problem.

Having experienced this map at its worst, I have to disagree with many of my esteemed colleagues about the layout of this – dare I say it? – masterpiece. Encounter design is brilliant if you pistol-start on –fast. Sure, it’s less pretty than E1M3, but far more lethal if you miss that first secret. Heh, too bad I didn’t read joe-ilya’s comments before I played, but then again, I’m kinda glad I didn’t. You really have to start behind the eight-ball to appreciate the brilliance here. It’s clearly well-suited to deathmatch thanks to the looping, interconnected design that offers multiple ways of attacking the areas, and of course allows roamers to surprise you at the worst moments. For example, I had finally killed all the Imps in the blue key room and was ready to do a fist-pump when this pimple-faced zombieboy strolled in from out of nowhere and took me out with one shot. Then there’s the issue of being at low health, with 2 shotgun shells, and dueling against that Sergeant bunker next to the blue door. I mean, once those 2 shots are gone you’re trading fire across what seems a mile-wide gap against well-armed enemies, and all it takes is one hit to kill you. I died and died and died before I finally won.

Indeed, I was ready to despair-quit at 13 deaths until, in the darkness of the blue key room, I spied the glint of The Almighty Chaingun. I was at 12% health starting that fight, but I knew I was within reach of the ultimate terror weapon that would turn me into Death Incarnate. It took several more deaths before I prevailed, and a few after that, but I finally succeeded and commenced to tear shit up. Once I had the Blue Armor – another death to the trap up there that I forgot about – and a little more health, I was able to reach the Soulsphere and rocket launcher. I had died several times earlier trying to get there with too little health. So now I had a Soulsphere, Blue Armor, The Almighty Chaingun, a useless rocket launcher thanks to the timing, and enough ammo to win via blunt-force assault even if I took a few hits. And so I did, though Pinkies were still a hassle in that damned maze.

But if you find that first secret, then, as Veinen said, “the map is pretty tame.” I was able to go out, shoot at the Imps and zombieboys, take out the first sarge who waddled in and grab his shotgun, take out the high zombieboys, grab the Medikit, and then take the logical path towards the Soulsphere and rocket launcher. Once you have those, it’s easy to visit the blue key room and toss a few rockets in at the Imps, then waltz in, grab The Almighty Chaingun, and from that point it’s just a mop-up operation. Seriously easy even though I took enough hits to whittle me down some, but never any worries.

To continue this wall of text, I’ve always viewed E1M4 as the Ugly Kid Joe of Knee Deep. On regular UV it’s very easy. It isn’t pretty, either, with Romero a bit off his game on the detailing. And it has another damned maze, albeit a rather dangerous one this time thanks to those Hemi-powered Pinkies. And I think it’s a design flaw to have such a powerful secret at the start, because if you had to fight for these items later, then players would be forced into more of the action-packed terror-fest that I enjoyed, as opposed to making the whole thing trivial to good secret hunters.

Even though I’ve seldom played this map, it has features that have gotten inside me. The survivalist gameplay, the descending server trap (mutilated swastika), and the Soulsphere set-up which I’ve unwittingly homaged in two maps (though not the one-way lift). This is also the first map so far with the looping, interconnected, roamer-promoting layout I associate strongly with Knee Deep. The earlier maps are all much more linear than this one. So if you play it without the first secret, it can be brilliant, and if you get the first secret, it’s maybe kinda “meh.” Either way, it’s had an impact on me.

Last edited by SteveD on 12-05-13 at 02:15

Old Post 12-05-13 02:07 #
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Avoozl
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Map: E1M3 Toxin Refinery / Kills: 100% / Items: 100% / Secrets: 100% / Time: 11:54 -fast

Okay so this map is quite difficult at the start with -fast mode on, also again with the barrels galore and strategic shots on them can eliminate quite a few enemies at once in particular rooms.

Most of the secrets are linked together and weren't that hard to find after the other, only one possible to be missed easily is the one near the secret exit.

Map: E1M9 Military Base / Kills: 100% / Items: 100% / Secrets: 100% / Time: 7:57 -fast

This map isn't particularly as well made as the previous but it does provide some challenge particularly on -fast, the group of imps trapped in the middle cage sling many fireballs at once at fast speeds, focusing on either them or the sergeants still give quite a pounding if you're not careful enough.

Particularly the loads of demons pouring out into the area after you pick up a keycard gave me a little bit of a pounding after my bullets ran out and and while having to use the shotgun instead.

Map: E1M4 Command Control / Kills: 100% / Items: 100% / Secrets: 100% / Time: 8:34 -fast

So after finishing the last map and starting this one with 24 health and 49 armor I had to be a lot more careful, it was fun blowing up the barrels in the above windows with the few Former Humans inside gibbing them instantly, I managed to fight my to a few medkits scattered about and one in the secret area getting up to 100% health before picking up the megasphere for a full 200.

The one memorable area would have to be the round one with the four doors in the center of the map housing one of the key cards.

Had a little troubling finding the remaining secret which turned out to be not that far from the starting area. :P

Last edited by Avoozl on 12-05-13 at 05:17

Old Post 12-05-13 04:21 #
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Magnusblitz
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Posts: 813
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SteveD said:
I was all ready to do a write-up about what a surprise nightmare this map is, when I started reading Magnus and cannonball talking about doing it easy, important since they are both playing on –fast, too. Now, I’ve broadcast loudly enough that I’m no Doom God, but among keyboarders, I’m probably not that bad, so how come Magnus and cannonball breeze through this thing when I get killed 23 times on my first run?


It sounds like you're also doing pistol starts, which I'm not. Having the chaingun from the get-go is pretty helpful. I'd also wager that -fast mode makes the difference between the set speed of a keyboard turn vs the near-infinite speed of mouselook more important.

Old Post 12-05-13 04:32 #
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Cynical
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I just gave E1M4 a go on -fast from a pistol start, intentionally skipping the first secret and unintentionally screwing up the one-chance Soulsphere, and didn't have many problems, despite the fact that this was literally the first time I've ever played Doom with -fast. The key is to take the middle path, killing the imps in the lift room with the pistol, go up to the Chaingun/BK room, open those doors, and rush in for the Chaingun. Once you've got it, the map is basically over; nothing can even come close to standing against you.

Old Post 12-05-13 05:25 #
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SteveD
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Magnusblitz said:


It sounds like you're also doing pistol starts, which I'm not. Having the chaingun from the get-go is pretty helpful. I'd also wager that -fast mode makes the difference between the set speed of a keyboard turn vs the near-infinite speed of mouselook more important.



OK, that explains it. I still suck, but at least I feel better now. Yeah, going in with a chaingun and chainsaw would've made this map easier. And ya know, I've never pistol-started these maps on regular UV before, either, so pistol-starting on -fast has been a blast. I do fear the upcoming maps, though, especially Phobos Anomaly with all those Hemi-Pinkies and Spectres. I'm gonna get tore-up. ;D

Old Post 12-05-13 05:52 #
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SteveD
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Cynical said:
I just gave E1M4 a go on -fast from a pistol start, intentionally skipping the first secret and unintentionally screwing up the one-chance Soulsphere, and didn't have many problems, despite the fact that this was literally the first time I've ever played Doom with -fast. The key is to take the middle path, killing the imps in the lift room with the pistol, go up to the Chaingun/BK room, open those doors, and rush in for the Chaingun. Once you've got it, the map is basically over; nothing can even come close to standing against you.


Well, you're a better player than I am. Just look at the maps you make. How many times did I die playtesting what you laughingly call HNTR in Codex? ;D That said, yes, I'd have done better if I'd gone straight for the blue key and chaingun, but I didn't know ahead of time that it was there. I went running all around the rest of the map first, getting whittled down, so I was in a one-hit-you're-dead condition when I finally got there. But ya know, it can still be a lotta fun to play a map wrong and get your teeth knocked out. ;D

Old Post 12-05-13 06:00 #
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Demon of the Well
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As with E1M9, hanging around in the doorway out of the start room and just camping that first yard (at least until a walking shotgun happens by) works fairly well, even on -fast. I suspect Steve's experience stemmed from the fact that he likes to play like the protagonist from some mid 80s action blockbuster, which of course naturally involves a certain disregard for the reality that the other guys aren't exactly using Nerf guns.....Not that I can blame him, I'm the same way.

E1M7 -- Computer Station - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
This is the map from E1, for me (and many others, I suspect). As with all of the Phobos maps, it features a tranquil/unassuming start, but as soon as you open the entrance latch things turn into a massacre (usually of the hellspawn by the marine, but I've seen it go the other way before, too, usually when a zombie barrel-trolls a player). Overall, it's the bloodiest map in E1, although E1M9 arguably feels more violent since it's more concise and its combat remains at a level pitch throughout most of its short duration. Nevertheless, I'd say that Computer Station tops it, if for no other reason than that its violence is, shall we say, more 'picturesque.' Blasting sergeant corpses off of the lowering column on the access bridge never gets old, nor does sending gobbets of meat flying out of the windowed exit annexes with some well-placed rockets. Of course, in the end it's still just the standard E1 imp/zombie parade, with a significantly lower presence of demons/specters than in the past couple of maps, but here Romero worked hard to make the action feel dynamic as he could with just this limited toolkit--enemies often appear above or below the player, and the sheer number of attack angles available at any given point via the panoply of windows allows snipers to have their way, while the many broad, intertwining corridors facilitate ease of movement for those who prefer to fight up close and personal--of course, it's most fun to switch between these methodologies on the fly. Romero's use of monster closets that open well away from the player's position when they are first triggered such that the monsters spread out and hunt you was a stroke of inspiration as well, an effective way of keeping the blood flowing, and giving the installation a truly infested feeling. This particular type of monster deployment is surprisingly and unfortunately relatively uncommon in modern mapping, a shame as it works as well today as it did then.

I also feel that this is the most aesthetically pleasing KDiTD map overall, not only in terms of pure shape/structure but in terms of texture scheme and lighting as well. As with Toxin Refinery (albeit to a greater degree), it is visually interconnected to a far greater extent than it is physically/logistically interconnected, which lends it a great deal of sense of place, and though actual map progression is quite simplistic and involves heavy backtracking, the way action is handled, as aforementioned, makes this route seem more cinematic and believable. The method of secret concealment on display in the bridge area challenges players to think outside of the box and adds another layer to the otherwise fairly straightforward nature of the map's traversal--shame that the most thoroughly hidden secret is a chainsaw that's not very useful at any point on the map (although I suppose it can be fairly helpful in E1M8). It does strike me, looking at it now, that it's really not nearly as dark as I had pictured it in my mind--probably Vader's version of it from KDiZD asserting itself on my memory--and would probably look better if it were, but 'better' is of course a relative term, and in the end this encapsulates the E1 atmosphere more effectively than any other map in the episode save the arguable exception of Phobos Lab.

E1M8 -- Phobos Anomaly - ??% Kills / 100% Secrets
Cynical captured the story of this one quite well, I think. While I'm sure many of us were thrilled/intimated/full of adrenalin the first time we saw the dark brothers burst roaring and terrible from their strange upright coffins, outside of the lens of nostalgia the gameplay on offer here is pretty, well....cursory, with or without carryover weapons from previous levels, although I reckon this one actually plays better as a part of a continuous run, as opposed to E2M8 and E3M8, which both only really work right from pistol-start (I'm having trouble remembering E4M8 clearly at the moment.....). And yet, I still like this map even now, and I don't think my approval is just residual nostalgia. The map has a real mood, a real presence about it from the moment it loads, courtesy of one of the best pieces of BGM in all of the official DooM games. From the inscrutable demonic hoedown in the barrel room that you can sardonically devastate with a few pistol rounds from on high to the cold light of day shining on the ominous Baphomet altar at the end, everything you see and do here feels very different in tone from everything that came before, and it's this fleeting feeling that gives the map legs to stand on; it is, in a sense, greater than the sum of its parts, a memorable climax despite gameplay that is, at base, not very impressive or nuanced....it feels like the end of a chapter before the end even actually comes....and then when it finally does come, you're apparently killed, with your consciousness inexplicably returning in a familiar yet ominous place. That's good stuff right there, and that's the same feeling I look for when I judge nearly all final maps, ala IoS maps at the end of DooM II megaWADs, to name one common sort. I have seen some very good, cathartic IoS maps, and like Phobos Anomaly here, in most of them, their strength elides far more from their mood and narrative feel than from the gameplay itself, which of course is often simply just more lift-pogo-rocket-toss metagamery.

Fine work from id on this one...after this, how could you not want to order the rest of the game?

Last edited by Demon of the Well on 12-05-13 at 06:17

Old Post 12-05-13 06:07 #
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Magnusblitz
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E1M6: Central Processing
100% kills, 4/4 secrets, 2 deaths

For me, another relatively blah map, but with some nice setpieces. The red key ambush is nice, and makes good use of the time-locked doors. Everything until the yellow door is a bit boring, lots of linear travel and a sub-par maze. The secrets by the blue key are almost ridiculously strong - soulsphere, blue armor and boxes of rockets for a somewhat-obvious jump in the sludge pool. Got my first death by being surrounded by demons after approaching the blue door. The "maze" isn't that tough and the comp map secret is almost glaringly obvious.

The area after the yellow door always felt "strange" to me - lots of openings where you think there wouldn't be one, a door across the slime, lots of angles for enemies to attack. It's always stuck out to me. I think entering from the soulsphere secret outside instead of through the yellow doors actually makes it a lot tougher. The ending in the computer room is bloody, and became especially frantic since I started running out of bullets for my chaingun, which is extremely punishing on -fast. The spectres at the end were particularly tough and gave me my other death.

Old Post 12-05-13 06:34 #
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SteveD
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Demon of the Well said:
As with E1M9, hanging around in the doorway out of the start room and just camping that first yard (at least until a walking shotgun happens by) works fairly well, even on -fast. I suspect Steve's experience stemmed from the fact that he likes to play like the protagonist from some mid 80s action blockbuster, which of course naturally involves a certain disregard for the reality that the other guys aren't exactly using Nerf guns.....Not that I can blame him, I'm the same way.


Well said, DoTW. ;) I do my share of camping, but I have a problem dragging it out more than 10 seconds or so, which is why I got torn to pieces in the Chaingun Sniper Hell Zone of Jayextee's Nex Credo, Map05. So yes, we are alike in that regard. Now, if only they could bottle Demon of The Well Doom Skill, I'd be dangerous. ;D

Old Post 12-05-13 06:43 #
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Jayextee
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E1M6 - 99k/87i/100s - 9:29

Central Processing. Two areas fit this description, the finale in the computer room, or the tech room housing the red key.

This stage is where Doomguy bites back, driving music and a shotgun (plus shells!) positively handed out for free as the level begins. That opener may have been a nightmare without it though, as it's shotgunner central.

There are a fair few computer textures here and there in this stage, making it really 'fit'. A lot of nukage though, what's that about (unless it powers the computers somehow)? Area behind the blue key door isn't ideal (and probably where I missed kills, hence my poor 99%), and on a normal playthrough I skip it entirely by tackling the yellow key housing from the secret, essentially backdooring the thing before heading through the slimy tunnel to the outdoors with soulsphere.

That's the beauty of this level though, it's probably the second most nonlinear of the episode (the winner of that title being awarded to E1M7) and I think it's a joy to quickly blast through.

Final section's ambush used to always get me until I knew how the linedefs worked. This playthrough I just pushed barrels to semi-block the oncoming troops as I blew them away, because Doom Forever lets me do that.

Speaking of which, I picked up an imp's claw. THIS IS BADASS, as it seems to do about three times the amount of melee damage as the regular fist. Attempted to battle a demon with it; down in seconds.

I know that Doom Forever (and Brutal Doom too) are basically the offspring of Immoral Conduct, and I'm giving some thought to playing at least one of the episodes with the mod to freshen it up (because seriously, I may actually have completed episodes 1-3 more times than I've had a cooked lunch).

And finally...


SteveD said:

I got torn to pieces in the Chaingun Sniper Hell Zone of Jayextee's Nex Credo, Map05.



Thanks for the plug. :P

They're not there on HMP, you know? Mind, I know how you love it when a map kicks your butt -- I think UV should be this setting, it's for people who want to battle unfair odds, right? ;)

Old Post 12-05-13 12:59 #
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Getsu Fune
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E1M6 Central Processing

The worst E1 map, but why? Well, let me think, items strewn just about everywhere makes getting 100% items a nightmare, lotsa crossing of the sludge to get to places really sucks, at least three instances of a thirty-second door (one of which is a WR I believe), and that spectre at the end is stuck. Hur hur. The red key area, the central area leading to the maze on the right, the maze itself, and the ending rooms all had lotsa stray armor and health bonuses, making it easy to miss one. At least there's some nice monster bunches that beckon me to kill some guys with rockets. There's this one aside, near the beginning, an area that I had to cross sludge with, which had barrels in a tight space, perfect for taking out the imps inside :). Pistol start was nothing special, other than not having a chainsaw once again. I did get cornered by demons at the ending room but using the chainsaw or chaingun while cornered does quite a nice trick on enemies. Still not an overall fan of the map though.

One other thing I need to mention, that WR thirty second door I mentioned was the one close to the exit, it's the door that opens when you press the switch in the far north. But as I was coming back to get more items, the door closed behind me, I tried the switch again but it didn't work so I decided to wait and it opened after some time.

Old Post 12-05-13 13:02 #
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joe-ilya
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E1M5
The poison line in the start is a good idea, because you'll run and you get an ambush there and if you take the way back you're getting damaged, this map is played as the first demo in the title and shows a secret behind those barrels, it's like you're rewarded for watching the demo.
The map has a smart use of the windows, especially the yellow key, the map has lots of secrets and there's that gang that countains:Radiation suit, chainsaw, soulsphere; and that's a lot.
Some of the secrets are just shortcuts and they aren't even tagged as a secret, I remember that the glowing room was scary to me when I was younger I remember I used to quickly run through it but when I got stuck, I immediatly got out of the room, and then go the other way.

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Old Post 12-05-13 15:26 #
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Rook
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E1M3: Toxin Refinery (GZDoom, UV, -fast)
Honestly, I haven't got anything particularly insightful to say about this map except an observation that it has probably “inspired” a huge number of PWAD maps set in toxin or nukage factories, processing plants, refineries, and so on. It always makes me laugh to see yet another WAD include an early map with a similar theme and/or title, and yet the WAD I'm working on includes one itself. They're so hard to resist! The only other thing is that to my shame, this is the first time I've ever actually found the secret exit to this map, which brings me to...

E1M9: Military Base
I actually don't feel at all bad to have never played this map before, as I really hadn't missed out on anything (a BFG Edition Steam achievement aside). It really feels like something thrown off very quickly, or failing that like one of my first map-making efforts. Obviously it was early days when Romero made this, but there's still nothing to be recommended about it to a present-day player. As an aside, I'm really not at all fond of fast monsters after four maps and I doubt very much I'll keep the parameter on when I get to Episode 2. It encourages play so conservative that I don't feel I'm enjoying myself.

Old Post 12-05-13 16:59 #
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BaronOfStuff
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Jayextee said:

I know that Doom Forever (and Brutal Doom too) are basically the offspring of Immoral Conduct, and I'm giving some thought to playing at least one of the episodes with the mod to freshen it up (because seriously, I may actually have completed episodes 1-3 more times than I've had a cooked lunch).



You owe it to yourself to at least play Thy Flesh Consumed with Immoral Conduct. E4M6 is fucking crazy to pistol-start from what I remember.

E1M5:
Now we're getting somewhere; this episode starts showing some teeth with this new difficulty. The constant encounters with Shotgun Guys lead to the inevitable chipping away of my health/armour, even when I'm taking more cover than I usually would. I wasn't too worried about managing to survive at any point though, as there have always been enough recovery items for those incredibly rare occasions (in consecutive play of course) when health falls below 100% -- a situation which didn't arise until very close to the end in this case. Still, it's nice to actually get to a point now that requires a bit of concentration and planning!

Given how the zombies always seem to have better accuracy when I play (this genuinely seems to be the case; in co-op games I'm always the one being hit by zombies from across the fucking map), I was actually dreading the penultimate room, with its infamous mix of pulsing lights, barrels, and hitscan monsters. After laying waste to the first two Shotgun Guys (somewhat unintentionally, via -- you guessed it -- a barrel explosion), I immediately rushed for the Lite-Amp Visor room to lower the chances of messy encounters and daft mistakes. From here I could wait for whatever active fools there were to just stagger on down into the path of my Shotgun. Making sure everything was dead, I went back for the Soulsphere & Mega-Armour combo -- it's always good to leave a map with 200:200.

Old Post 12-05-13 18:20 #
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Magnusblitz
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E1M7: Computer Station
100% kills, 4/4 secrets, 4 deaths

I'll agree with the chorus that this is the best map in E1. The unassuming start quickly turns into a bloodbath, with enemies piling in from all sides. From then on, it's a fun level to explore. It's still a bit linear just because of the keys, but there's also multiple paths and lots of extra areas. Most of the secrets require some smart thinking to use the raising pillar to jump into the slime, and like Cynical, I doubt I would've found the outside area without the comp map. After the initial battle, there's still plenty of enemies, and the doors opening after grabbing keys help keep already-explored areas lively. The lighting in this level is top-notch as well.

Combat-wise, this level is a bitch on -fast. I died twice near the yellow door, as the sergeants outside were just at the right height to be able to shoot me, but I couldn't shoot them. The zombies inside the top level of the computer are also able to plink away through the small gap. My other two deaths came near the red key, just got too worn down by zombies and pinkie demons. Once I hit the secrets and grabbed all the health and blue armor, it was smooth sailing.

E1M8: Phobos Anomaly
26/41 kills, 1/1 secrets, 4 deaths

The boss battle itself has definitely not aged well, while having the doors lowered to reveal the two barons of hell was fucking awesome in 1993, it definitely garners a big "meh" in 2013. Still, I think the design of the level holds up, the music helps set the mood and the reveal of the star walls dropping down to the big outdoors, with the first use of the satanic demon head texture teleporter a good way to end the level.

Playing on -fast, the spectres are definitely the big threat here, especially as they're difficult to see in this room due to the textures and low lighting. All my deaths came to them; I ended up eventually just running straight for a point of the star and holding down the trigger on my chaingun. The extra speed seems to make the Barons' tracking even worse, as they got stuck on the brown area every time and never wandered out to come find me. Easy picking for the rocket launcher.

Old Post 12-05-13 22:59 #
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Jimothy
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Holy crap, part 2 of my funfest! I'm starting off on E1M9 fresh from E1M3, let's see how it goes! Still on UV.

E1M9: Military Base
88% Kills
44% Items
50% Secrets

Holy. God. I literally came close to having a tea party with Death himself on this map, I was screaming for health at a meager 7% health. After I recovered from the initial rapefest of the beginning of the map, I proceeded to kick ass through the rest of the map. Maybe E1M4 won't be as bad.

E1M4: Command Control
76% Kills
51% Items
0% Secrets (lolol)

E1M4 was definitely much easier than E1M9. The only issue I had with this map was trying to get through the "maze." So many pinkies and imps in the same general enclosed area scare the shit out of me.

E1M5: Phobos Lab
100% Kills
55% Items
33% Secrets

Yep, not bad. Besides the brief trip to NOPEville while working to get to the center of the map and the return trip in the end sector, E1M5 wasn't all that bad.

E1M6: Central Processing
0% Kills
0% Items
0% Secrets

Nope. I died. Your fellow Doomer Jimothy fell to the UltraViolent hordes on E1M6. I had almost beaten the level, and right at the end, I got hit by the Pinky swarm and was overcome. What a shame. Next week, however, I'll start over in E2!

Old Post 12-05-13 23:22 #
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Getsu Fune
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E1M7 Computer Station

Everyone else's favorite E1 map, apparently. I still think Toxin Refinery and Phobos Lab are better. Plenty of zombies to actual demons makes things a hitscan parade, especially with "That Fucking Outdoor Area" which is sargeant central. But it does have a blur artifact to help avoid their attacks as well as the other snipers from the inside. I really dislike the six shotgun guys in the southeast, easy to miss, although with blur artifact and chaingun things weren't that difficult. The column that can be raised and lowered was cool for secrets, though one stray armor bonus in the southern nukage pool seems like it's easily misplaced. I couldn't really use barrels effectively this time, but there was enough ammo to go around. On my pistol start run I got cornered by the spectre but managed through with just a pistol and the shotgun guy behind him shooting him in the back :D. The rocket launcher is in a nice, convienient place, and the chaingun is in a good secret. There's a chainsaw, but I never knew how to reach it. As for items, they're strewn around the level like candy again, but it was a bit easier than E1M6.

Needs moar computers :p.

Old Post 12-06-13 00:28 #
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