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scifista42
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OK Brusle, I wrote Erosion to be the name, as the other suggested name is too long for a vanilla compatible automap string.

Fellowzdoomer, I'm sorry, you've been overtaken again.

Please claim city layouts now, or they will only remain for the same theme, which is undesired.

Old Post 02-10-14 07:54 #
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Fellowzdoomer
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So... how bout map10 being the target with map25 as the layout.

EDIT: or map05 as a target and map 19 as a layout? Which ever is valid.

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Last edited by Fellowzdoomer on 02-10-14 at 09:56

Old Post 02-10-14 09:05 #
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scifista42
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You get the latter. MAP19 layout in MAP05 target slot. Good luck converting the Citadel into a base, I can imagine it quite very possible.

Old Post 02-10-14 13:23 #
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scifista42
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In order to stabilize the Base/City/Hell slots ratio, I am also claiming for myself MAP20 layout to be converted into MAP06 slot. I'm kinda stuck with my other map anyway, eventually I might even drop it (but hopefully not).

Old Post 02-10-14 13:33 #
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schwerpunk
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General statement: I'm having trouble getting my layout down. Maybe it's because my previous 'layout' map was much simpler (E1M2), but I'm finding putting down each linedef and adjusting it to match the source just incredibly labourious.

How are you guys dealing with this? Just vaguely putting sectors according to memory, and then adjusting as you go? Maybe I'm just taking the requirement of 'unchanged' layout too literally. By layout does that simply mean that the map should flow in the same way? Like, same hallways, doors, keydoors, etc?

After so many recycling bin'd attempts, this is all I've got so far. I'm going to keep stabbing away at this, but I'm not really having as much fun with my slot as I thought I would. I'm just... stuck.

P.S. Apologies, I've tried to keep up with this thread, but school's been keeping me busy, so it's possible I've missed some key points on this subject.

Last edited by schwerpunk on 02-10-14 at 14:43

Old Post 02-10-14 14:38 #
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scifista42
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I am creating my maps with the model map opened in a separate DoomBuilder window, and trying to craft out my rooms and connections of rooms to resemble the model map's layout.

The structure of the map, the look and also the placement of rooms and corridors and connections should remain the same. But the actual execution is completely up to you. For example, in my MAP12 remake of MAP02, there was the red key building. I turned it to a separate building with lava all around, to make it resemble City style. Now, with MAP06 remake of MAP20, I am planning to not make every building separate, but to have large rooms filled with nukage, with windows to different areas - kinda ala E1M7. Absolutely no need to copy exact linedef lengths or positions, or even shapes and detail structures, heights, lighting, do whatever you want with it. Recognizable resemblance to the original layout is the only condition. ;)

By the way, when I opened MAP20 in DoomBuilder, I found there much more obscure secrets than I thought there ever were.

EDIT: If your map resembled the original map's gameplay and progression too, it would be cool and preferable, too.

EDIT2: Inkie below says it right. :)

Last edited by scifista42 on 02-10-14 at 14:57

Old Post 02-10-14 14:50 #
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Inkie
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schwerpunk said:
General statement: I'm having trouble getting my layout down. Maybe it's because my previous 'layout' map was much simpler (E1M2), but I'm finding putting down each linedef and adjusting it to match the source just incredibly labourious.

How are you guys dealing with this? Just vaguely putting sectors according to memory, and then adjusting as you go? Maybe I'm just taking the requirement of 'unchanged' layout too literally. By layout does that simply mean that the map should flow in the same way? Like, same hallways, doors, keydoors, etc?

After so many recycling bin'd attempts, this is all I've got so far. I'm going to keep stabbing away at this, but I'm not really having as much fun with my slot as I thought I would. I'm just... stuck.

P.S. Apologies, I've tried to keep up with this thread, but school's been keeping me busy, so it's possible I've missed some key points on this subject.



My interpretation:

I believe 'layout' refers to the arrangement of rooms, doors, and switches or other features that make up the level. You can't add or subtract areas from the original layout. You can include new areas as secrets, and you can change somewhat the size and shape of rooms, but the source layout must be recognizable.

Old Post 02-10-14 14:50 #
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schwerpunk
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@ Inkie & scifista: Thanks, guys. Alright, I'm excited again.

Old Post 02-10-14 15:37 #
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BlueFeena
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I took the liberty of playing the few posted maps, and I have to say, Undercity was really, really, killer. It even has a stuck Mancubus like in the original MAP02! Seriously, go play it! Right now!

In other news, I'm about 60-ish percent through my modified MAP06. The large building at the end and the red key card room will be the most problematic by far. Hopefully I'll have some screenshots up later.

Old Post 02-10-14 17:26 #
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Megalyth
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@schewerpunk

Assuming you're using Doom Builder, just have two instances open: one with your map, and one with the source Doom2 map for reference. Don't worry excessively about it either, not every vertex and linedef has to exactly match the source map. Mine sure as hell don't.

Old Post 02-10-14 17:26 #
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joe-ilya
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Ta-da, looks amazing for me, how about you?

http://i.imgur.com/5gcb9sel.png

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Old Post 02-10-14 17:57 #
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Inkie
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I'm almost halfway done.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2na7cqt.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/2r2tczq.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/4haav4.png
http://i58.tinypic.com/1zodliw.png

Old Post 02-10-14 18:22 #
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Fernito
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joe-ilya said:
Ta-da, looks amazing for me, how about you?

http://i.imgur.com/5gcb9sel.png



What's the theme? I don't know, I think it still looks kinda hellish :P Maybe replacing those bloodfalls by something else would do the trick.


Inkie said:
I'm almost halfway done.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2na7cqt.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/2r2tczq.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/4haav4.png
http://i58.tinypic.com/1zodliw.png



Wow, really nice work! Looks tricks-and-trappey indeed.

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Old Post 02-10-14 18:25 #
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scifista42
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joe-ilya said:
Ta-da, looks amazing for me, how about you?

http://i.imgur.com/5gcb9sel.png

Less stone, more bricks, more MODWALL, and it will be perfect. ;)

Inkie's shots look great!

Old Post 02-10-14 18:35 #
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C30N9
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@joe-ilya: Could use more MAP14 architect in there. Otherwise, texturing looks good.

@Inkie: Nice shots.

http://i58.tinypic.com/dhd0dd.png
Circle center.

http://i62.tinypic.com/287lxf8.png
Blue key room.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2hfuzo4.png
Before the red key switch.

Old Post 02-10-14 18:37 #
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scifista42
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Actually it would be WRONG if he used MAP14 architecture. Homages to the original TARGET SLOT level are undesired, unless they're somehow directly made a part of the source map's layout for a reason (interesting effect, needed height variation, for nonlinearity etc.). Homages should not be added to expand the layout or heavily influence it. The most important is that the original SOURCE LAYOUT must be recognizable.

^Just for clarity.

C30N9: That's what I'm talking about, while your screenshots look cool, I see heavily lot of MAP29 there. I hope the Circle of Death will be well recognizable there during the play.

Old Post 02-10-14 18:43 #
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Getsu Fune
formerly Hurricyclone


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http://i.imgur.com/X4e21nG.png

Here's the general layout of Abandoned Market. I'm pretty much done with this map but won't release it yet until I do my other one. I will say though that I had trouble trying to find good places to use damaging floors though.

Old Post 02-10-14 20:09 #
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Fellowzdoomer
You mean, I have to actually think before I post?!


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BlueFeena said:
I took the liberty of playing the few posted maps, and I have to say, Undercity was really, really, killer. It even has a stuck Mancubus like in the original MAP02! Seriously, go play it! Right now!

In other news, I'm about 60-ish percent through my modified MAP06. The large building at the end and the red key card room will be the most problematic by far. Hopefully I'll have some screenshots up later.



That guy wasn't stuck in my doom:2.

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Old Post 02-10-14 20:11 #
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cannonball
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Here is my map Infected Well (Map 18 - Layout Map09)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2...fected+well.wad

Couple more pics

http://imageshack.com/a/img850/6288/ipxe.png

http://imageshack.com/a/img607/6059/s51u.png

Difficulty and multiplayer settings need to be implemented along with deathmatch stuff if necessary. But that can be done alongside any major fixes to the standard gameplay.
Hope you enjoy :)
Edit - Instantly finds horrendous texture misalignment... fuck yeah, things never change!

Last edited by cannonball on 02-10-14 at 23:17

Old Post 02-10-14 23:08 #
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Fellowzdoomer
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I'm more or less following the Base Theme.

http://i.imgur.com/FkN626b.jpg

I've decided to call this The City Tunnels for now. If theirs anyone with a better name please let me know!

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Last edited by Fellowzdoomer on 02-10-14 at 23:59

Old Post 02-10-14 23:49 #
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tourniquet
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cannonball said:
Here is my map Infected Well (Map 18 - Layout Map09)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2...fected+well.wad



Nice cannonball...Pretty tough! this one kept me on my toes but i liked it a lot.

Well since many here are reporting their progress....

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/ad0e/2wglhb8dqicq1q5fg.jpg

i think im almost done...just need to place more enemies around the whole map and decorate the huge central room a bit more...

Old Post 02-11-14 01:24 #
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Getsu Fune
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^It looks...huge.

Should these maps really be that big? Just wondering.

Old Post 02-11-14 01:30 #
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Magnusblitz
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Nice work, cannonball! Good-looking map, and still has all of the recognizable features of The Pit. A little on the tough side, but The Pit is one of the harder levels IMO, so it fits.

Old Post 02-11-14 05:01 #
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Fellowzdoomer
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^^That area in the middle reminds me of quake 2

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Old Post 02-11-14 11:48 #
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scifista42
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@cannonball: Just now I've played your map and really liked it. Struggling on health (I was using resurrect cheat to be honest), yet I still think it's balanced well. I like how you brought your own ("modern") style into the map to make the gameplay comfortable and interesting for modern players, for example the removal of damaging floors, pain elemental / archvile / other high-tier monster encounters, intuitive switches etc. I believe the map can be broken if the player rushes into the blue-switch-opened section before the wall lowers, then it doesn't raise again until the player walks out - it happened to me, fortunately I already had the required yellow key with me, but I couldn't revisit the area anymore to search for secrets. Speaking of which, I don't know how the megasphere secret should be properly reached, but it seems weird to me, as it allows the player to walk behind the scenery boundaries. I don't find it right, maybe you did it intentionally though.

Take this map as a good example how to do things. The MAP09 layout is actually recognizable and the gameplay is felt similarly, even though there's so many changes and differences. Thumbs up, cannonball, only please fix the wall, possibly by making all the switches operating it to have repeatable action.

Old Post 02-11-14 15:36 #
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C30N9
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cannonball: One word. Awesome.
But I didn't notice any "MAP18" in it.

Old Post 02-11-14 17:15 #
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scifista42
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C30N9, I'm afraid you didn't notice what I had told you last time, that is NOT at all wrong that there's no MAP18, in fact it's vice verse, because layout homages to target slot ARE WRONG.

Old Post 02-11-14 17:23 #
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C30N9
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In my opinion, as long as those homages are done in a way similar to the layout pattern, it would be fine. Or at least using the textures used in the Target Mapslot. If this hasn't been the case, then what's the use of claiming MAP18 as the Target mapslot? It would be more general, like building MAP09 in the 2nd episode of the game regardless of its claimed slot.

Old Post 02-11-14 17:35 #
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joe-ilya
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Fellowzdoomer said:
I'm more or less following the Base Theme.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/FkN626b.jpg[IMG]

I've decided to call this The City Tunnels for now. If theirs anyone with a better name please let me know!



I have no idea what it is but I definetly see a base.

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Old Post 02-11-14 17:49 #
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scifista42
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C30N9 said:
In my opinion, as long as those homages are done in a way similar to the layout pattern, it would be fine.
Well, yes.

Or at least using the textures used in the Target Mapslot. If this hasn't been the case, then what's the use of claiming MAP18 as the Target mapslot? It would be more general, like building MAP09 in the 2nd episode of the game regardless of its claimed slot.
The point is 1) to already set the map's position in the megawad (which influences the difficulty, weapons and monsters used etc.), 2) to allow to have control over the claimed/unclaimed slots, and 3) to give the mappers the possibility to have a model for texturing/pacing to be applied to their new maps. I expected a lot of mappers will be imitating texturing of the slot map, I partially do it myself too - and this (imitating texturing alone) is neither mandatory, nor prohibited. If the mapper feels it would suit his map well and make it interesting, all OK. If he rather imitates ultra-generic texturing of the selected episode, it's OK too. Cannonball's map looks totally like a city, while it still noticeably resembles MAP09 layout. That's enough, and the result actually turned out to be pretty good.

In short, texturing ala the slot map can be used, but doesn't have to. It's up to you what you consider fitting and interesting.

Old Post 02-11-14 17:59 #
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