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SteveD
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Plays on Map07, requires cc4-tex.wad. Get it here; http://www.mediafire.com/download/t...TeamhellN_G.wad

Very large hell map with a high monster count and a fairly nasty fight against high-tier enemies by the standards of a traditional map. This was done by myself and PhantomTMac for the Doomworld Team Map Making Project between April and September of 2013. Alas, that project was stillborn, so we're releasing the maps now.

The original design compatibility for the Team Project was -complevel 17, but we did not add any Boom features, so -complevel 9 for PRBoom is the recommended way to play, and for other source ports, any default setting that eliminates infinitely tall actors.

This map has two basic approaches. In the Western end beyond the red door, it's a straight-ahead blast-fest against occasionally large numbers of high-tier enemies. The Eastern end features 2 mazes and a Dead Simple-type area where the special triggers have been replaced by switch actions, because Mancs and Arachnotrons exist outside this area, and even when it seems they're all dead, the special triggers usually don't work. When this section in saved into its own Map07 slot, everything works perfect.

We believe this map is too long and would like advice on what to cut. Players are also cautioned that this map is not FDA-friendly owing to its size, the fairly severe fight in the West end, and the more survivalist play in the East end. Casual players probably should not try it on UV. Difficulty settings are set in the West end, but not most of the rest of the map.

Some pics;

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w555/steveduff2/Shotgun/HELL04_zps19958db0.png

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w555/steveduff2/Shotgun/HELL03_zpsb5789d4b.png

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w555/steveduff2/Shotgun/HELL01_zps67be0056.png

Last edited by SteveD on 02-10-14 at 06:03

Old Post 02-08-14 09:31 #
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Cynical
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Not FDA friendly, eh? I'll show you!

I won't succeed, though, because I'm rusty and making loads of hilarious unforced errors. Here's the link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/h...mhellN_Gfda.lmp

Some thoughts:
The initial fight behind the red door is laughably exploitable.
There's about a million little areas that look like they should hide secrets, but don't (like that wall I try to jump over to no avail, or the billions of tiny texture misalignments in the room after the red door).
Two chainsaws and a Berserk pack? Why?
I laughed when I saw the first Cyberdemon. All that build up, and one Cyb? That's it?
This needs more "heat". Even in that western wing, the monster density is too scarce; not enough threat for the size of the level (yes, I say this completely knowledgeable of the fact that I didn't beat it). I know I keep bringing this up with regards to your modern levels, but I'll say it again- go play "Stench of Evil", map 27 of Alien Vendetta. It's doing a lot of the same things you are, but it'll give you more of an idea of what your monster loads should look like in a "modern" map of this size.

Old Post 02-08-14 13:19 #
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Avoozl
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The red and grey marble baron pillar seems a bit out of place in the last shot.

Old Post 02-08-14 13:20 #
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scifista42
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Avoozl said:
The red and grey marble baron pillar seems a bit out of place in the last shot.
I'm indecisive whether it's out of place or not. Due to the metal borders and surrounding brick texture, I guess there's a borderline to a new area with different aesthetics, which we don't see as it is behind that corner.

I'll give this a go later, right now I am... not in a mood for long maps.

Old Post 02-08-14 15:55 #
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Veinen
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I was doing fine until I found an inescapable lavapit. 40 minutes into the map, fun times... The failed FDA. Checked out the rest of the map afterwards though.

What can I say about the map then, well I didn't honestly like it as much as most of the other stuff you've posted recently. The areas beyond the red door are alright, although I agree with Cynical that it needs more things to kill. The lone Cyber was indeed a pretty big disappointed for one instance. As for the rest of the map: the green hedge maze is pretty dumb and doesn't offer much, the "maze" behind the yellow door is acceptable, I guess, since it's quite small, but nevertheless not the greatest gameplay experience I've ever had. The cave behind the blue door is very fun, however, and one of the highlight battles in the map. No complaints regarding the aesthetics, except for the misalignments and such, which I found here and there.

It's an okay map overall and worth playing for sure but ehh. You're definitely right that it's a bit too long for it's own good since as of now it has the quiet parts in the middle, which is where the map starts to lose steam noticeably. Other than dropping off or modifying the hedge maze, I don't really have any suggestions on what to cut though.

Old Post 02-08-14 16:20 #
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SteveD
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Cynical said:
Not FDA friendly, eh? I'll show you!



I should have added, "Though sopme players will be able to do it," because that's true. It's not something I can do, and -- Yay! -- at some point I'll have to do a no-secret playthrough of this bitch. ;D


Cynical said:

Some thoughts:
The initial fight behind the red door is laughably exploitable.



Yer right, I'll have to tune that teleport trap. It's not something I noticed with my "guts 'n glory" playstyle, because I always rush right down and rumble with all the little jagoffs. I'm not being sarcastic, that's actually what I do, every time.


Cynical said:

There's about a million little areas that look like they should hide secrets, but don't (like that wall I try to jump over to no avail, or the billions of tiny texture misalignments in the room after the red door).



Billions? You mean the one you found? ;D That's my fault, it's for the sound tube to the Pinky closet. But since you made such a big thing about it, I laughed my ass off when you missed the misalignment that hid a real secret, very close by. :D

Yer right, that one wall section looks like it can be jumped to a secret, but it can't. The relevant party will be informed. ;)


Cynical said:

Two chainsaws and a Berserk pack? Why?



No dodging this one, we're guilty. That'll be changed.


Cynical said:

I laughed when I saw the first Cyberdemon. All that build up, and one Cyb? That's it?



Pacing, Cynical. Pacing. ;) But I have considered putting a second Cyb in there for UV. There's always the question of how to pitch a map. As it stands, casual players who are willing to use save/reload can beat this map on UV, but if I put a second Cyb in there, UV will be limited mostly to power-players, as in, not me. ;D As we know, I've gone this route with Realm of Intensified Chaos, at least Map04. And let's not forget, I'm not the only mapper on this map. Phantom's sections are not exactly Hell Revealed, either, which says something in itself.


Cynical said:

This needs more "heat". Even in that western wing, the monster density is too scarce; not enough threat for the size of the level (yes, I say this completely knowledgeable of the fact that I didn't beat it). I know I keep bringing this up with regards to your modern levels, but I'll say it again- go play "Stench of Evil", map 27 of Alien Vendetta. It's doing a lot of the same things you are, but it'll give you more of an idea of what your monster loads should look like in a "modern" map of this size.



But you didn't get to the big fight yet. You're almost there, but you have to go up those stairs behind the yellow key to set it off.

BTW, I did take a look at Stench of Evil. Not my thing, really. I'm still basically a maker of traditional exploration/run 'n gun maps, though hints of slaughter poke up their heads here and there. More of that will happen in time, I guess, especially if you keep pushing me. ;D

Now, can you FDA our other map? I bet you can! http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mo...ap-public-beta/

Last edited by SteveD on 02-08-14 at 16:39

Old Post 02-08-14 16:30 #
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SteveD
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Veinen said:

It's an okay map overall and worth playing for sure but ehh. You're definitely right that it's a bit too long for it's own good since as of now it has the quiet parts in the middle, which is where the map starts to lose steam noticeably. Other than dropping off or modifying the hedge maze, I don't really have any suggestions on what to cut though.



Thanks, Veinen! It sucks about the inescapable pit. When you said that, I had an idea about where it might happen, but when I watched, it was actually a different spot in the same general area.

Originally, you had to get the red key in the hedge maze, but after the DWMC played Realm of Chaos and I really heard it about backtracking in Map23, I suggested putting the key next to the door instead of going back and forth, visiting the maze, etc., but you did all of that even after you had the red key. ;D I'm not sure if you meant this part as the "quiet sections," though, or whether you meant the long, no-monster build-up before the yellow key. If the latter, I accept full blame. I was trying for something I've never been good at -- suspense. So I created this bigass cathedral that you can just walk through, and no one picks on you, until all of a sudden there's a shitload of monsters chokepointing you. And that was actually a mapping error. I was trying to be a clever little jagoff by exploiting the way monsters always move towards you once they hear you, so I constructed a staggered series of huge teleport closets with the teleport lines to the east. The idea was that the monsters would follow you to the west, away from the teleport lines, and after you got the yellow key, as you moved east, so would they, so that new groups of monsters would teleport in front of you as you tried to escape. Alas, the monsters have a prowl mode, so instead of that, they all teleport in pretty much at once, but not in the same place, so they keep pouring in from farther back in the cathedral. When I saw that, I decided I kinda liked it, so I left the error in. ;D

TBH, my ideal solution for this map would be to make 3 maps out of it. The gameplay to me is disjointed in style between the sections. I think the cavern Dead Simple area should be a map in itself, the red door area should be another, and the maze sections another. I think that way, each type of area could be tuned to its best advantage, although if that path was chosen, it's no longer a team map, unless me and Phantom each contribute something to the other's sections. ATM, I suggested a compromise that cuts out the hedge maze and the cavern, along with the hub, and puts the exit in the 3D maze area, specifically, the big fight at the top of the stairs with the Revvies, Arachnotrons and such.

We'll see how it goes. It might be kinda shitty for me to put up a map that needs a lot of editing, but it's mainly to help focus on what works and what doesn't.

On another note, watching you and Cynical play the room where you kill a Hell Knight to flip the switch that activates the Pinky/Imp trap, I saw that I need to have something teleport down to the lower platform near the entrance doors to make that fight nastier. If only we'd had FDAs in the old days of RoC!

Thanks again, Veinen!

Old Post 02-08-14 18:18 #
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SteveD
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Avoozl said:
The red and grey marble baron pillar seems a bit out of place in the last shot.


Yeah, it's good old Doom 2 brick on the walls beside it, but red and brown go together. However, it's possible I might go with one of the cc4 darkened GStone textures. We'll see.

Old Post 02-08-14 18:21 #
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SteveD
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scifista42 said:
I'll give this a go later, right now I am... not in a mood for long maps.


When you do play this, I have a feeling I might get called to the principal's office again. ;D

Old Post 02-08-14 18:23 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
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I don't think there are enough monsters in the map honestly. For the size of the rooms you can definitely cram more baddies in there. And only 1 Archie on UV? The "big" fight in the west end wasn't really that big.

I do think one quiet part would do nicely just to add some "dread" value before a big fight. Also, since you don't use the monster specials, is there any reason to have this on map 07? Just add custom music and leave it in map 01.

I agree, cut the hedge maze.

To sum it up: Trim the hedge maze, add more monsters, swap map slot and music, more monsters, more monsters, and oh yeah add more monsters.

Old Post 02-08-14 18:47 #
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Veinen
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Honestly, I totally forgot that the red door was right there so exploring the hedge maze so early was purely accidental :D And yes, the hedge maze and beyond the yellow door are the quiet areas that I spoke of.


SteveD said:

TBH, my ideal solution for this map would be to make 3 maps out of it. The gameplay to me is disjointed in style between the sections.



I agree with this and it's kind of what I was trying to say, but couldn't put into words. The gameplay between the "cathedral" areas and such is so vastly different than what it is later on that it just seems like it's two maps forced into one. It would suck to lose the cavern because I did really enjoy it, but it is again a lot different compared to the areas just before it so I suppose cutting it would be justified.

Old Post 02-08-14 18:57 #
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Cynical
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SteveD said:
That's my fault, it's for the sound tube to the Pinky closet.

Sound tubes?

Dude, why?

Just use split sectors (if you don't know how to do that, look at any teleporter trap from any of my maps). Using sound tubes is some seriously 199x build technique.

Old Post 02-08-14 20:51 #
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SteveD
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General Rainbow Bacon said:
To sum it up: Trim the hedge maze, add more monsters, swap map slot and music, more monsters, more monsters, and oh yeah add more monsters.


Great to see you, GRB! Before I say anything else, I want to say that your fourplay map has been very influential to me. I had so much damned fun playing it, even though I had to play on HNTR owing to my renowned skill deficit, that I decided to start mapping in that general vein, which is to say, small to medium-size, and a shitload of monsters for a super-fast pace. The first of those maps is "Don't Touch That Dial!" in DWMP 2013, and the second is The Miley Cyrus Concert in Shotgun Symphony. I was getting really tired of making twelve-hundred sector maps that take forever to test, so the other good thing about smaller, violent maps is how fast I can do them. Dial took 7 days plus 2 more to make suggested revisions, and Miley took only 3.5 days. And there's more of these to come, in my Amiga Demo Party maps. So thanks, GRB!

As for this map, it's in the 07 slot because that was our slot in the Team project, and I was too lazy to switch it for the preliminary test. Phantom put a really nice MIDI track in here, so I was really surprised to hear the stock music. I'll look into that. Also didn't see the orange E4 sky.

I'm willing to put in more monsters, but first I have to see whether the plan to make a multi-map set by Team Project alumni is going to happen, because then we'd have to agree on whether UV should be traditional medium-hard or the Extreme Nightmare Terror you and Cynical want. ;D

Old Post 02-09-14 16:55 #
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SteveD
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Veinen said:
The gameplay between the "cathedral" areas and such is so vastly different than what it is later on that it just seems like it's two maps forced into one. It would suck to lose the cavern because I did really enjoy it, but it is again a lot different compared to the areas just before it so I suppose cutting it would be justified.


Yeah, it's that clashy feel in this map that bothers me. The cavern section, depending on how things go, might stay or might go. I object to it mainly on 2 grounds. First, that it's part of the whole "too much map" issue, and second, it was designed to use the special tags, and the design works, but only if the player has killed every Manc and Arachnotron before reaching this area. It's my fault that there's so many of those things elsewhere in the map, so all it takes is for a player to cheese the yellow key battle and run away from the Mancs and spiders, and when they got to this room, they'd be trapped. So that's why I had to put switch actions there instead.

Anyway, I could use the cavern room as Map07 of Abcess, with the special tags restored, and probably not use the CC4 textures, or I could leave it here as is, because it's no problem to design a new special tags map for Abcess. It's kind of in limbo now. ;D

Old Post 02-09-14 17:05 #
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SteveD
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Cynical said:

Sound tubes?

Dude, why?

Just use split sectors (if you don't know how to do that, look at any teleporter trap from any of my maps). Using sound tubes is some seriously 199x build technique.



I know, I know. ::hangs head in shame:: Remember, I'm a Doom Fossil from the '90s, and anything good enough for grandpa is good enough for me! ;D I've actually been using Merge Sectors instead of splitting lately for teleport closets. Seems to work.

Old Post 02-09-14 17:07 #
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Demon of the Well
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And another complevel 9 FDA (yes, yes, you advised against it, but I'm thickheaded like that). It's fairly long, naturally.....I think I kill about 320 monsters or so before meeting my demise. Now, before you break out the champagne at the mention of 'demise', know that lots of folks would probably consider your (or maybe it was TMac's?) victory a bit 'dishonorable' ( ;) )--I die in some untelegraphed inescapable lava near the strange 'dropdown maze', testing out a theory (an incorrect one, I now know) about how to get that caged soulsphere.

A lot of the same layout/style criticisms I had of the Hell-tech map apply here as well, although I think this one generally plays better, despite arguably fluctuating in build quality even more wildly than that map does. The 'resource scarcity' aspect of play is felt more readily in the early going here, though I alleviate much of it by using the chainsaw a lot (and I do like a map that gives me more than one kind of chainsaw vignette, that's pretty rare) at various points. The bigger fights feel more 'complete' in general--e.g. in what has been called the 'cathedral' area, where the player ultimately gets the yellow skull--although most are generally still somewhat low-pressure in that the player generally has a lot of space to move. For example, the fight with the first cyberdemon is no sweat given the situation; doing something like teleporting in some revenants or whatnot across the gap in order to run interference might help, even if their eventual fate is naturally to be destroyed by the cyb when they inevitably hit him.

I'd say the map's biggest drawback is that it does seem to have been padded out purely to add length a fair a bit, both in terms of layout and combat--for example, I think the wave of reinforcements that arrives to stop you from getting out of the cathedral with the yellow skull is well and good....to a point. By the time I'm three large antechambers back and still hammering through line-blocked mancumeat, it seems like the concept has overstayed its welcome a bit. The biggest offenders that I saw layout-wise were the hedge-maze, the strange dirt tunnels that lead over to one of the secret armor vests, and the brown dropdown maze. The last of these is probably the most egregious, but it's irritating and awkward from both a traversal AND gameplay perspective, given that the infinitely-tall phenomenon makes the placement of the imps and sergeants extremely bothersome when you're trying to drop down through the maze (and just simply an irrelevant timesink for completionists when playing with the troublesome infinitely-tall parameter disabled). It's weird, we see some straightforward modern design sensibility juxtaposed here with Cleimos/Serenity-era architectural setpieces like this, and past a certain point the latter start feeling like they're just there to draw things out.

Oh yeah, and the secret BFG is much too easy to get. As for the elephant in the room, I'm not going to tell you you shouldn't use inescapable lava/toxin pits, as despite general public disapproval in many cases they are a perfectly reasonable design choice (especially given that DooM lacks fall damage by default), but in maps where some such pits are escapable and some aren't, it's usually best to signpost the inescapable ones in some way (and this one being inescapable seems like an oversight rather than a conscious design decision anyway, if I'm honest).

Edit: Heh, I just read that Veinen died in an inescapable lava pit, as well. I wonder if it's the same one...?

Last edited by Demon of the Well on 02-10-14 at 02:12

Old Post 02-10-14 02:01 #
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SteveD
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Demon of the Well said:
I think I kill about 320 monsters or so before meeting my demise. Now, before you break out the champagne at the mention of 'demise', know that lots of folks would probably consider your (or maybe it was TMac's?) victory a bit 'dishonorable' ( ;) )--I die in some untelegraphed inescapable lava near the strange 'dropdown maze', testing out a theory (an incorrect one, I now know) about how to get that caged soulsphere.

Edit: Heh, I just read that Veinen died in an inescapable lava pit, as well. I wonder if it's the same one...?



Sigh . . . and I had such high hopes for finally getting a DoTW pelt. ;D I might have to wait until you try for the BFG in RoIC Map04 for that. In any case, this pelt would have gone to Phantom -- you gotta know I'll never build a maze -- dropgown or otherwise. Well, except for that tiny and simple one in a secret area of A Lazy Day On Phobos. I want to FDA that soon so everyone can see the secret chains.

Yes, Veinen died in the same area, though not in the same lava pool. His demise came at the Caco closet.

I won't be as windy on this one as I was for the HellTech map, because many of the observations, including swapping the map back and forth with no central, guiding plan except to try and remain thematically consistent between the parts, applies. This was also a second hub spoke map, this time requiring 3 keys, leading to gigantism.

I did the red door and blue door areas this time, and thus am guilty for the dirt tunnels leading to the Blue Armor. I was planning to spruce that up with some lighting but never got around to it. That whole area of the map is, of course, optional. Only fighting the Cyb for the PG is required, since the switch opening up the cathedral is in his shack. I can of course change that by making two rows of bars, so each of the initial "wings" will have a switch raising half of them.

And allow me to say, you certainly made your point by contemptuosly SSGing the Cyb. ;D Okay, I will make that battle harder. Your Revvie suggestion would work, and as you know, I've already discussed putting a second Cyb in there, but only for the UV uber-Doomers. The way I view things now, I'm always willing to make UV an Extreme Nightmare Terror setting for pistol-starting badasses such as yourself and that Meat Lover, Cynical. You and Veinen tore the map up, so it needs to be harder, but keep in mind that I am not capable of playtesting Extreme Nightmare Terror, which, BTW, is a play on the name of UK punk band Extreme Noise Terror. Alas, they did not live up to their name, though at least they were inspired by another British hardcore band, Discharge, who did, and whose influence on metal has been so profound as to call them, "The punk band that launched a thousand metal bands." And hardly anyone knows who they are. ;D I've considered a mapset based on their song names, such as "Ain't No Feeble Bastard." But anyway, I digress.

Like I said, I can only do Extreme Nightmare Terror on the advice and playtesting of yourself and other uber-Doomers. Otherwise, my maps will be medium-hard.

I wasn't bothered by chewing through all that mancmeat. On one playtest, I cheesed the whole thing by running past all those monsters. And that was an earlier version, before I added the side passages, and the player was chokepointed in the long, arched hallway. I sorta regret those side passages now, because the older fight was more dangerous.

Dying in the lava means you never saw my Dead Simple area, which I can say was a somewhat different take on the concept. A shame I had to give up the special tags. I had originally considered a Sunderesque tunnel with a really extreme monster selection, but scaled it back because the map was already so gigantic. If you wish, you copuld play that section by just clipping to the area and through the door. There's a Megasphere inside, plus every weapon except the BFG, although the single-barrel and the Chaingun must be obtained from their owners, hardly a challenge. There's plenty of ammo, probably enough even if you don't get lucky with infighting.

The next version will teleport more monsters into the initial yellow key combat area, in waves, to complicate, first, the fight against the Cybs, and then the fight on the stairs. Lots more monsters!

Thanks as always for your expertise, your FDA, and your commentary. BTW, I'm wondering, is it impossible to use cheats on an FDA, such as when you get stuck in a room or in lava and need to clip out?

Old Post 02-11-14 08:23 #
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Cynical
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Demo recording disables cheats.

If it didn't, the demo would just desync when you got to the point where the cheat was used.

Old Post 02-12-14 05:19 #
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Ribbiks
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fda_cl9, I play like shit but beat it anyways. Very easy, mostly inoffensive, except these dreadful areas, kill those with fire (especially the one in the north-east that clearly wasn't designed around infinity-tall monsters)

Old Post 02-12-14 08:03 #
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SteveD
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Cynical said:
Demo recording disables cheats.

If it didn't, the demo would just desync when you got to the point where the cheat was used.



Bummer. It's one thing if an FDA is incomplete because the player dies on the field of battle, but it sucks if they're stopped by a mapping error.

Old Post 02-12-14 16:29 #
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SteveD
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Ribbiks said:
fda_cl9, I play like shit but beat it anyways. Very easy, mostly inoffensive, except these dreadful areas, kill those with fire (especially the one in the north-east that clearly wasn't designed around infinity-tall monsters)


Wow, that was quite an acid trip in the Dead Simple room. I guess you missed the "requires cc4-tex.wad" part. ;D

But shit, even with some of the craziest HOM I've ever seen, that room basically did you no harm. Back to the drawing board!

And cheers to you for finding the cc4-tex switches to get out of there. I designed the damned thing and doubt I could have done what you did.

Even so, you got down to 15% health in my big yellow key fight, so I'm reasonably satisfied. Almost got your pelt, though it would hardly recompense for the rivers of blood I've spilled in your maps. I think you've snagged my pelt north of 30 times thus far.

Thanks to your FDA and the others, I have a better idea how to make the map tough for players who, unlike me, actually use strategy. Cynical said the first fight past the red door was "Laughably exploitable," and you laughably exploited it. Lesson learned. The big Pinky/Imp fight needed monsters teleporting to the lower platform to keep players from using it to easily defeat the fight. You also door-camped the later fight in the upper room where you teleport to the blue key after you kill everything. We can't have that! ;D

My thanks for the FDA and comments, Ribbiks. You join the chorus of those who didn't like my little dirt-tunnel maze to the Blue Armor. Changes will be made.

Old Post 02-12-14 16:42 #
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scifista42
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I finally got to play this map (I used ZDoom). I noticed it has similar qualities to the previous Hellish Tech map. The main features are awesome lighting work and usage of height differences, extensive layout with great looking large areas, a fair amount of orthogonality and symmetry (even in monster placement), and a certain "tension" factor. By the last point I mean, not every switch triggers a trap, but sometimes a new stunning looking area is opened but no fight happens. I like it a lot.

I also really like the detailing style, with all the windows and bars and elegant shapes. Maybe because I am myself unable to create maps in such style and make it any good looking at the same time.

I'd say the weak point is actually the symmetry in enemy placement, I guess the map would have been even better without it.

That's all from me, I enjoyed the map a lot, even those maze-y parts. Found 6/9 secrets in total, watching Ribbiks's FDA revealed me some others. :)

(By the way, to my own surprise, Ribbiks used similar paths and even strategies as me - I played the map before watching the FDA. On the other hand, Ribbiks didn't die, while I had been splattered by the cyberdemons numerous times.)

Old Post 02-12-14 20:12 #
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darkreaver
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SteveD said:


Wow, that was quite an acid trip in the Dead Simple room. I guess you missed the "requires cc4-tex.wad" part. ;D

But shit, even with some of the craziest HOM I've ever seen, that room basically did you no harm. Back to the drawing board!

And cheers to you for finding the cc4-tex switches to get out of there. I designed the damned thing and doubt I could have done what you did.




Hmm? This sounds weird. The missing textures when you watched the FDA is probably a fault on your end. YOU need to load the cc4-tex when watching the FDA =)

Old Post 02-12-14 20:34 #
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SteveD
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scifista42 said:
I finally got to play this map (I used ZDoom). I noticed it has similar qualities to the previous Hellish Tech map. The main features are awesome lighting work and usage of height differences, extensive layout with great looking large areas, a fair amount of orthogonality and symmetry (even in monster placement), and a certain "tension" factor. By the last point I mean, not every switch triggers a trap, but sometimes a new stunning looking area is opened but no fight happens. I like it a lot.


Thanks for playing, scifista! I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes a bit of orthogonality here and there. And you're right, I don't trap every switch or every key, because that becomes too predictable, and you have to be very good in your trap design to pull it off in a way players will like. I'd rather not have that pressure. ;)


scifista42 said:
I also really like the detailing style, with all the windows and bars and elegant shapes. Maybe because I am myself unable to create maps in such style and make it any good looking at the same time.



I'd be very surprised if that's the case, but then again, I am not comfortable with every style, either. I have to credit Phantom with setting the style guide for the map, including the barred windows, which I just made into bigger inverted crosses. I have a major fixation with the marble and metal E4 maps.


scifista42 said:
I'd say the weak point is actually the symmetry in enemy placement, I guess the map would have been even better without it.


So I guess by that you mean, for example, after the first fight beyond the red door, you open the bars in two corridors, and in each corridor there are 2 Revvies, so maybe it would be better to have 2 Revvies in one, and perhaps 1 or 2 Archies in the other, thus creating a better and a worse path?

Cheers for finding so many of the secrets, and also for fighting through the Cyb deaths. Speaking of Cybs, I just played your Crossing Pipes map. It's Tron! I thought it was fascinating. I died several times, many thanks to RNG hate, for example, Mancs that survived 4 rocket hits. The same one did it several times. He was in the upper corridor of the big, deep room with all Lost Souls. He killed me 4 times, and after I got past him, the next Manc died after only 2 rocket hits, and I died when my 3rd rocket sailed into the sloped floor. After this, I died the 1st time I tried the Revvie room, but on the second try I won through. Then I died again after lowering a wall and unveiling an Arachnotron. On the 2nd try, I killed him with the Plasma Gun, but died again because of the second Arachnotron firing from miles down the tube. That was my final death. When I found a Cyb behind the blue door, I ran away, lured him to me, and then ran past him to the exit. I finished with about 86% Kills and 100% Items and Secrets. It was a fun map, very cool-looking and like nothing I have seen before. It was hard mainly because of ammo starvation and being stuffed into long tubes with lots of fireballs coming at you, so in reality it was a corridor-shooter, but the corridors were interesting in themselves. My miracle-fight was surviving the Manc trap triggered by grabbing the non-secret Rocket Launcher. I thought I was doomed for sure, but managed to survive with 35% health.

I suspect this was an early map mainly because of the inappropriate wooden exit door that tiled past its upper border. Still, it showed that you have a tendency to do unusual maps. I'm looking forward to the next!

Old Post 02-13-14 10:30 #
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SteveD
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darkreaver said:


Hmm? This sounds weird. The missing textures when you watched the FDA is probably a fault on your end. YOU need to load the cc4-tex when watching the FDA =)



D'oh! ::face-palm:: I'm so accustomed to just double-clicking the lmp and everything turning out right that I didn't suspect Ribbiks might not have used extended demo recording. I should've been tipped off when Ribbiks never mentioned HOMs in his post. ;D

Well, this is not the first such mistake I've made, and the iron law that there are always new and exciting mistakes as yet unmade ensures it won't be the last. ;D

Old Post 02-13-14 10:34 #
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