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Tarnsman
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RottKing said:
inally finished my Drake 'O Brien map for TNT, difficulties aren't implemented yet, it's on map slot 14


Needs more distinguished hubspoke

Old Post 03-26-14 20:32 #
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RottKing
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I disagree! Map20 is a wimpy 2 door hubspoke, Map21 is a big square circuit, which is still a hubspoke but a different sort of one, and Map27 is about as much of a hubspoke as my map so w/e!! I'll leave the more blatant hubspokery to you

edit: Well I changed my mind and added a small dedicated hub room starting area

Last edited by RottKing on 03-27-14 at 02:24

Old Post 03-26-14 22:45 #
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Tarnsman
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Map 20's wimpy 2 door hubspoke is still clearly its own area different from anything else in the map that directs the layout. Map 21's central area completely dominates the layout. This map lacks something like that.

Old Post 03-27-14 00:18 #
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T-Rex
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sincity2100 said:
Since in Evilution there are maps that were made by two Authors,why not having two mappers create a map or one mapper creates a map and the other does his touch on it?

You know, I've always been wondering on TNT's Map03 which parts were done by Robin Patenall and which were done by John Minadeo, because it seemed as if the entire map was done by Robin as it shared similar design architecture and idioms of Map14. My guess is that John Minadeo might have done some detailing and quality control to the map, but it's uncertain. It's even lacking his distinct monster teleporters, in which there's an inaccessible room connected to the other and the monsters which teleport from their square spots once alerted (see Map08 of TNT and Map02 of Icarus).

Old Post 03-27-14 02:16 #
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Marcaek
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It's been mentioned that Patenall was likely responsible for the central area, while Minadeo did the boxy extensions. I wonder if Ty could clarify on any of that?

Old Post 03-27-14 02:55 #
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T-Rex
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Marcaek said:
It's been mentioned that Patenall was likely responsible for the central area, while Minadeo did the boxy extensions. I wonder if Ty could clarify on any of that?

Could be a possibility, but still quite hard to distinguish. All I know is that with the other maps done by two authors, you can tell. Map06, for example, the Cacodemon teleporter trap must be some of Ty's sections (remember Prestidigitation, the super-secret level of Icarus) apart from most of it done by Jimmy "Evil Genius" Sieben, and there was the blue area in the southwest of Dario's Mill. Ballistyx, while it is a Kram Llens (Mark Snell) map, parts of it remind me of Jim Lowell, given his involvement. The red rock section, for example, is just like the red area secret level of Icarus, Great Balls of Fire.

Old Post 03-27-14 04:44 #
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Ty Halderman
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Sorry, but I don't remember some of what I did much less how the others split things up. However in general it would have been a case of a 2nd author took an unfinished map and either cleaned up or extended it, rather than a true collaboration other than me and EG a couple of times. There certainly were some where the original author likely never spoke to the other.

There was a small group of us who were the "Board" for the project and we made decisions on our own about finalizing some incomplete levels and doing cleanup or some work making things a bit more consistent. Can't remember the acronym but it was a three letter thing starting with C... Mostly met on IRC and discussed this; in fact that's where Romero met with us that fateful "night before release." 'Twas quite the venue at the time.

Old Post 03-27-14 06:59 #
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TimeOfDeath
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itc-test.zip

I did a tnt map in my style with light increments of 10 and no 3d mode, but I guess I failed the "You map must look like it could realistically be in TNT if you go this route." part. I just tried to make a cool 90's map. There are many missing monsters, but I thought I'd post it to see if it'll definitely get rejected so that I can finish it and release it separately.

Old Post 03-28-14 02:36 #
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plums
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I don't know whether or not that's an appropriate map for FDTWID, TimeOfDeath, but it looks really cool so far. Very similar visual theme to The Room/Floor Below, with less pseudo-3D stuff of course, and a bit more of an oldschool feel. Looking forward to getting my ass handed to me over and over again in the final version.

Old Post 03-28-14 08:05 #
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RottKing
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Ya it's a cool map but it might be a little too big, not really scale wise, but just the sheer number of rooms crammed into the map, it's extremely dense

Old Post 03-28-14 09:35 #
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Ragnor
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Ty Halderman said:
Sorry, but I don't remember some of what I did much less how the others split things up. However in general it would have been a case of a 2nd author took an unfinished map and either cleaned up or extended it, rather than a true collaboration other than me and EG a couple of times. There certainly were some where the original author likely never spoke to the other.

There was a small group of us who were the "Board" for the project and we made decisions on our own about finalizing some incomplete levels and doing cleanup or some work making things a bit more consistent. Can't remember the acronym but it was a three letter thing starting with C... Mostly met on IRC and discussed this; in fact that's where Romero met with us that fateful "night before release." 'Twas quite the venue at the time.



Nice to hear some history on TNT. Always been my favourite IWAD :]

Old Post 03-28-14 09:49 #
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sincity2100
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Another TNT entry http://www.mediafire.com/download/f...fyx/TNTMap5.wad

It's Called "Red Purgatory" Emulated from Milo Casali mapping style

tell me your opinions

Old Post 03-28-14 12:14 #
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Joe667
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Ok, let's hope it's a third time lucky! Well... second time lucky? It's the second wad I've posted here. Or would that be like... 10...?

I mean, I have loads of cancelled wads that I hit mappers' block with. Included unfinished level replacements were maps 18, 11 and 30 for Plutonia, and this is my first TNT map.

Again: - IT'S A FIRST DRAFT ! -




Map: Map 31

Iwad: TNT: Evilution

Map name: Forgotten world

In the style of: Milo Casali

Editor used: Doom Builder 2

Status: UNFINISHED, First draft





Here be it: http://www.mediafire.com/download/m...syp6/JPharo.wad


Notes: A lot of development went into the islands. Originally I had just wanted a seemingly endless ocean but then, well, obviously I added an island. This was the smaller island. Then, I made the bigger island. I didn't place any objects on it because I was determined to keep this view without causing graphical glitches.

Surprised that it worked ingame, I then got carried away and modified the whole bigger island to be a DeathMatch area, complete with a higher top, ladders to scale it, a small mountain with a BFG sitting on its waterfall, a small sandy border (which is still there, actually, and is meant to be a beach). From there I added deep water around it, an impassable perimeter and a tall rock with a plasma rifle which people would have to leap onto to get.

Of course, this was where the renderer met its match. Despite not actually crashing the game, it threw huge HOMs across the ocean. So I compressed and shortened the island and took all the improvements (except the beach) away. If you open my map in an editor, you'll also see I had to join a few sectors on the smaller island.


I also wanted to make it so that wherever you are, or whenever you're in view of a window, you can see the islands. Also, until you reach the end of the first cave and step into the Arachnotron room, you can't tell that they're two seperate islands!

Last edited by Joe667 on 03-29-14 at 12:55

Old Post 03-28-14 19:31 #
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RottKing
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Here's an updated version of my drake o brien map

-Added a dedicated hub room at the start
-Difficulty settings implemented
-Added the ability to go back to the earlier part of the map after teleporting into the final area
-The northeast part of the map got a bit of a makeover
-Added some detail to the outside mountain area
-Some minor visual tweaking
-The map is now called "Fissure"

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgkhcgx4x...ott-fissure.wad

Old Post 03-29-14 02:35 #
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Ragnor
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I would play a whole megawad of Drake maps.

Old Post 03-29-14 02:53 #
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sincity2100
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My Second Plutonia Entry http://www.mediafire.com/download/s...2/Plutonia2.wad

It's called Blood Fobia taken from Dario Casali Style it's for Episode 2

the last large area was ripped off from D2TWIDD's map 11 The Garrison

tell me your thoughts

Old Post 03-29-14 15:44 #
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Marcaek
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sincity2100 said:
Another TNT entry http://www.mediafire.com/download/f...fyx/TNTMap5.wad

It's Called "Red Purgatory" Emulated from Milo Casali mapping style

tell me your opinions



Well, I liked it better than your previous submission. I think it has potential, but:

The start area being completely symmetrical concerned me at first, but I think it's ok considering everything else isn't the same way. It's a bit spaced out though. Monster placement is kinda cloggy, you could afford to use less overall numbers and just better picks. The revenant behind the metal fence is kinda weak, maybe it should be a few shotgunners or an archvile or something.

Every Baron in the map is useless, the turret Baron isn't used in a way that takes advantage of it's high hp, you'd be better off with a more effective monster there. The teleporting ambush Barons would be better as archviles, and since this is meant to be an E3 Casali map you can afford to use more archviles. Wasn't a fan of the symmetrical key arena with the arachnotrons and revenants, feels kinda bland.

The Spider room's fences are laid out in a strange way, which isn't TOO big a deal I guess but since the rising\falling fences are not monster-blocking you can get monsters stuck on them easily. The presence of several high-HP monsters also makes the spider get ganged up on and die easily. I'd remove the wall facing the exit door and maybe all of the non-spider monsters in that room.

Old Post 03-29-14 22:02 #
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Marcaek
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New post so it doesn't get missed: remember we don't NEED to have maps in our slots share the same author as the slot it replaces in TNT.wad! Rottking made a Drake O Brien map that feels like it would end up somewhere before map20 to me, and we did mix up the author order in the original TWID projects.

Old Post 03-29-14 22:07 #
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Gifty
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Howdy! I've been dabbling with several Plutonia/Milos, this is the first one to feel the warmth of completion. It's called Tiger. It's just map01.

Old Post 03-29-14 23:07 #
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sincity2100
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Marcaek said:


Well, I liked it better than your previous submission. I think it has potential, but:

The start area being completely symmetrical concerned me at first, but I think it's ok considering everything else isn't the same way. It's a bit spaced out though. Monster placement is kinda cloggy, you could afford to use less overall numbers and just better picks. The revenant behind the metal fence is kinda weak, maybe it should be a few shotgunners or an archvile or something.

Every Baron in the map is useless, the turret Baron isn't used in a way that takes advantage of it's high hp, you'd be better off with a more effective monster there. The teleporting ambush Barons would be better as archviles, and since this is meant to be an E3 Casali map you can afford to use more archviles. Wasn't a fan of the symmetrical key arena with the arachnotrons and revenants, feels kinda bland.

The Spider room's fences are laid out in a strange way, which isn't TOO big a deal I guess but since the rising\falling fences are not monster-blocking you can get monsters stuck on them easily. The presence of several high-HP monsters also makes the spider get ganged up on and die easily. I'd remove the wall facing the exit door and maybe all of the non-spider monsters in that room.



http://www.mediafire.com/download/f...fyx/TNTMap5.wad here's the update on the map,does it look better?

Old Post 03-30-14 00:09 #
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Marcaek
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Joe667: As it stands, your map is very "sausage-stringy" which means it's composed of tunnels connecting isolated rooms in a linear fashion. I wouldn't make it much longer and would instead focus less on that kind of progression and more on how to connect everything a little better.

Gifty: This is pretty decent! I dunno about the technical aspects, except that the smooth, angular staircase in the east of the map is strange and likely not a Casali thing, but it was fairly fun to play.

sincity: A little yeah, except you took out ALL of the barriers in the end of the map which is a bit extreme :P I was only referring to the one right in front of the exit door.

Last edited by Marcaek on 03-30-14 at 00:23

Old Post 03-30-14 00:12 #
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RottKing
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So I've finally gotten around to looking at some more TNT maps, and here are my thoughts on them:


sincity's tntmap3.wad

I'm just gonna say straight up that I don't like this map much at all. It's extremely linear, and it's pretty boring because there really isn't much at all going on in the map. Virtually zero exploration because of how simple it is.

sincity's tntmap4.wad

Kinda more of the same as the previous map, although a little less boring. I feel as though you need to experiment more with your rooms and layouts, move away from boring symmetrical flat rooms and extremely linear progression.

sincity's tntmap5.wad

I can't give much feedback on this map because I haven't studied the Casali styles much, but it does seem to suffer from the same problem as your other maps. There's a lot of symmetrical rooms, which by itself isn't always a bad thing, but when you pair it with extremely straight forward progression, and mostly flat and simple rooms it's pretty boring. Also, there's gratuitous abuse of the doom builder curve tool, and by gratuitous I mean that you used far too many vertices for the curves. You're getting close to hitting vanilla limits just in the main room because of how many linedefs there are.

Joe667's JPharo.wad

This map has similar problems with sincity's maps, except this is somehow even more linear and you're literally progressing in one direction the entire time. Although again like symmetry, linearity isn't always a bad thing, it's just how you implement it and execute it. Unlike sincity's Milo effort, I don't think you pulled off Milo's style very well, it seems pretty off even with my limited Milo knowledge. Someone more familiar with his style could probably give you better insight on where you went wrong. Also when I loaded it up in chocolate doom, I was greeted with a seg overflow HOM right at the start if you look towards the island in the distance.


I'm sorry if I sound like an elitist asshole! I'd rather give you honest critique, because I want to see your maps and your skills as a mapper improve rather than stagnate. I appreciate your efforts!

Old Post 03-31-14 10:24 #
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Joe667
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RottKing pointed out:
...Also when I loaded it up in chocolate doom, I was greeted with a seg overflow HOM right at the start if you look towards the island in the distance.


I'm sorry if I sound like an elitist asshole! I'd rather give you honest critique, because I want to see your maps and your skills as a mapper improve rather than stagnate. I appreciate your efforts!



No worries - I'm kinda inexperienced in finishing off maps, not to mention kind of young. This level will probably become yet another scrapped file. I really should study the styles of everyone more!

As for the seg overflow.... I have no idea. As mentioned, I made a lot of adjustments and tests and the only time the game showed a HOM was after I modified the bigger island for DeathMatch (you can read about that), and I've since removed all that crap and simplified the two islands greatly. I haven't experienced any HOMs since and I'm using Chocolate Doom, which is weird....

Either way, thanks for the review. NOW it should be third time lucky :D





To the drawing board!

Old Post 03-31-14 15:48 #
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obake
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Oh dear, I checked the link to the Coffin on the front page, and it hasn't been updated yet.

Here is the new version: http://www.mediafire.com/download/4...ave+%282%29.zip

Old Post 03-31-14 15:57 #
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Alfonzo
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I really admire the fortitude of some of the folks here, especially seeing as many of their maps have been heavily critiqued and booted back for reform. In return I'll be looking to conjure up another stream review for the latest contributors, and for those still snooping about for more tips on TNT/Plutonia design, so stay tuned!

Old Post 03-31-14 16:09 #
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Tarnsman
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It's good to see so many efforts even if they are rejected, especially for the maps that are good but don't hit the mark, so a quality LE release can be compiled.

Old Post 03-31-14 18:07 #
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obake
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Sorry, I must have accidentally sent a broken link for the updates to the Coffin.

I found another link that (hopefully) should work:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4...ave+%282%29.zip

Old Post 03-31-14 18:54 #
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sincity2100
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Here's My updated version of Red Purgatory http://www.mediafire.com/download/n...Map5updated.wad

tell me your feedback please

Old Post 04-01-14 00:21 #
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RottKing
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sincity2100 said:
Here's My updated version of Red Purgatory http://www.mediafire.com/download/n...Map5updated.wad

tell me your feedback please



The spider room is a little more interesting yeah, it's a step in the right direction, but I almost feel like you should just ditch the spider entirely.

Old Post 04-01-14 01:36 #
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sudo459
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Hey guys, I decided to make a map for the project, tell me what you think!

IWAD: Plutonia
Map: MAP14, but it could be any. I would guess it fits episode 3 best.
Author Emulated: Milo Casali
https://www.mediafire.com/?ogygnng82a9j4uy

There's a few things I feel like I could / should change, but I wanted to get some feedback before I break out the axe and hack away at it.
1. It's kinda big
2. It's difficult, moreso that Plutonia, but then again D2TWID is a bit harder than Doom2 so maybe that's a good thing?
3. I feel that I could rework some areas as far as monster placement goes.

But I decided to await feedback so I know how to change it to be more plutonia.

I'm really excited about this project. Plutonia is my favorite wad.

Old Post 04-01-14 19:58 #
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