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Getsu Fune
formerly Hurricyclone


Posts: 1098
Registered: 06-13


MAP06: Revived Bones My Time: 8:18

First thing to note is the revenant gimmick, where a revenant in a dummy sector is "pushed" into the game with a barrel 'n' crusher combination. If you're not equipped just run from him.

The map is a bunch of hallways with imps just about everywhere, and some zombies as well. Of course not forgetting revenants, even if they aren't exactly titular. A dandy berserk is present in the map, and this is the first instance of a chainsaw, although I have no use for it. At some point in the upper part of the map are some imp cages, there's yet another gimmick where they teleport into the hallway if you don't kill them right away. When I got the rocket launcher, an archie spawned in, so I RAN all the way to the left just avoiding him and any imp in the way. Again, not my favorite strategy but it totally somehow worked, until the hellknight got me. Another notable battle area is the one room with torches, some mancubi spawn in for trouble, and then there's the semi-last room with the teleporting hordes. I tried to lure them away from the exit end since there's archies there. Pretty tough map. Secret-wise, some cryptic stuff. There's one extremely helpful ammo depot that some may find.

Old Post 03-06-14 02:34 #
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7hm
Mini-Member


Posts: 78
Registered: 12-12


Map 06: Revived Bones

Hoooly crap that one took me a while. Definitely the slowest level, mainly because I got lost trying to find the yellow door (derp), and spent a while wall humping looking for secrets. The secret search bore few fruits, as I finished with 2/7, and that included the computer map. Not my finest moment.

A couple cool encounters in this one, such as that first Revenant, the teleporting hordes at the end, even the pain elemental that surprised me. The 2 archies at the end were devious.

In terms of looks this one was back to hallways, but a bit wider than previously. This is a small thing, but I really liked the detailing in certain spots. I took a picture of the one that I really noticed - the raised corners here. New intermission text, pretty decently written for a Doom intermission screen.

Old Post 03-06-14 03:52 #
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Demon of the Well
Senior Member


Posts: 1008
Registered: 02-13


Map 05 -- Abu Ghurab - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets
Up out of that musty old burial chamber into the sunlight. Abu Ghurab is our longest look at the ruins topside to this point, taking place mainly in and around an open courtyard containing a pool and littered with various obelisks and planter-boxes. Not that musty corridors and other indoor areas are entirely absent; along the periphery there's a bit of enclosed waterworks presumably having something to do with feeding the pool, and there's a small treasure-vault still carpeted in gold coins, where the ornate skull needed to unlock the first major intradimensional portal rests. Truth be told, while the structures themselves are here more developed in some ways than the simple angular corridors and mid-sized chambers that comprised most of the previous maps, I think that aesthetically this doesn't work quite as well as most of them--the increased length and width of the bare corridors makes it more obvious just how plain they are, and the main yard looks somehow cluttered and disorganized, maybe too visually busy on account of the pool, perhaps (I'll bet it would work better if it were a simple rectangle in shape, somehow)?

I don't really fault it much for its looks, though, simply because it's quite fun to play, and a well-timed change of pace. The main yard represents the first time in the WAD that the geometry really allows one to recklessly wade into a firestorm and subdue it through a combination of speed and infighting (which is fun). This contrasts nicely with the flavor of the combat in the other two major battle areas, those being the hydraulics room with its irregular/difficult terrain and height variation, and the treasure vault, which is small and geometrically simple such that the player needs to manage his/her space well in order to dominate. And of course, it's always appreciated that there are reinforcements in the yard when it's time to leave, even though they aren't very formidable--as far as map pacing goes, it often really is just the 'thought that counts' as far as making an adventure feel complete/rounded goes.

Map 06 -- Revived Bones - 144%(!) Kills / 100% Secrets
This is my personal favorite of the first 'minisode' (that is, before the first intermission screen) by far. Broadly speaking it seems to be right at home in the general scheme of musty little secret-laden corridors and obviously booby-trapped chambers that has so persistently characterized these early levels (and from which Abu Ghurab so effectively deviates); what sets it apart is that it is simply 'moreso', sort of a deluxe version. Aesthetically, it's the sharpest iteration of this theme seen thus far, with moodier lighting and some tasteful/unobtrusive inset wall detailing in many places; even those areas that are at root little more than long winding corridors are spiced up by game-relevant architectural features, ala the bank of imp cages along the long walk towards the yellow skull.

Speaking of, while there are a number of good fights here, the one I want to focus on is the potentially serious clusterfuck that protects that yellow skull. Not being one to methodically clean out monster cages from a position of safety, I began traversing the corridor without killing the caged imps, which of course allows them to suddenly start warping into the hallway behind me--not a great concern, I momentarily ignore them and begin fighting the monsters in the rocket launcher room. Unfortunately, a chaingunner walks out of the next corridor and blindsides me, injuring me and compelling me to dance around to put one of the revenants between me and him, which works...except it allows the imps time to catch up, so I have to start beating them back, but because I'm so badly injured thanks to Johnny Headband they force me out of the junction into the next corridor--sans rocket launcher, because a revenant was bogarting the center of the room. And of course, now the arch-vile has hit the scene, quickly resurrecting a thick wall of demon-flesh between me and him, and me with no RL to cut through it....so, suffice to say, I end up running like a scalded dog deeper and deeper into the catacombs, killing zombie after zombie mere instants before they pick me off, and I end up finally coming out the other end, yellow skull in hand, near death but alive, with a situation rapidly going from bad to worse in the halls behind me. Eventually, I end up outwitting the horde, circling around and indirectly luring it back to start of the long corridor (which closes up behind you at some point to keep you from fleeing back that way when shit starts to hit the fan), and then use Doomguy's speed to double back the other way, grab the rocket launcher, and then massacre the whole lot of them, vile and all, while they're choked up in that first corridor, soon to be stained red from ceiling to floor. Brilliant, brilliant.

That whole sequence of events is a good example of why I play DooM, really. Also telling that I finish with a grossly-inflated kill score, a good sign that arch-viles are being used well (unlike Hurricyclone, I let the last two viles do their thang with the final horde for a bit...mostly because I forgot they were coming, again). Oh, and hey, that first revenant's a cute trick, gets you moving out of the gate, sort of foreshadows later incidents. If I have a complaint, I reckon it's that the one big hidden ammo stash is blatantly overpowered, but that's a really minor niggle in the face of what is otherwise a very enjoyable map.

Old Post 03-06-14 05:19 #
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worrior
Warming Up


Posts: 10
Registered: 02-11


This is first time I play this WAD. I have to admit that I simply love action-adventure movies and games (even that cheesy Relic Hunter TV show was awesome: hopefully Epic2 will provide me with some kind of mini crossbow?!)... but only those that don't take place in a desert. Yes, there were exceptions (Tomb Raider, Indiana Jones) but I simply dislike desert envoirements as general. Hopefully Epic 2 will chnge my mind! Since I'm not looking into challenge, I'll be playing it on a pretty low difficulty setting.

MAP01 Entrance to the secret
The sarting area is simply beautiul. Those custom textures, bright sky and a small stream really create a sense of atmoshphere that every introduction map should have. Amazing. What's more, "introduction levels" tend to be simple in design, while this one feels like a small Indiana Jones adventure itself - it has some puzzles to solve, rooms to explore, bridges to raise. Blue skull key throne room was especially cool.

MAP02 Voodo
Very, very impressive level. The architecture, choice of textures and enemy placement are simply top-notch. Music fits _perfectly_ and new SFX become very atmospheric as well - grunts of zombies makes you think of mind-controlled minions of some ancient pharaoh's curse, lost soul screams are straightforward eerie. After beating this level, I decided to load a weapon graphic patch for shotgun and chaingun so they turn into WW2-era weapons - just for some additional atmosphere. Get ready pharaoh, I'm coming!!!

MAP03 Black Magic
I can't think of any other review than straightforward copy of everythng I wrote about MAP02. Music is awesome, monster traps kept me on my toes for the entire level. While it wasn't too long, it really packed a lot of action.

MAP04 Sarcophagus
Sarcophahgus, sarcophagus, what kind of mystery you're holding? Let's open it and welcome them with a shotgun, yar yar! Level is really fun to play and keeps up the atmosphere. Watch out for revenant though, since they seem to be everywehere!

MAP05 Abu Gurab
A.k.a. "enemy behind your back". Seriously, is there at least one corridor in this level that doesn't have a jump-scaring chaingunner/revenant when you just want to marvel at those magnificent architecture? Not a bad thing though, level keeps up both a gameplay and theme! Better watch your steps though. There are two highlight location in Abu Gurab: a beautiful, sunny courtyard with ancient ruins and a treasure room. Both are simply eye-candy: while they don't feature as much detail in mapping, the choce fo textures are making up for them very efficiently.

MAP06 Revived bones
This level scientifically explains few basic facts about ancient Egyptians. First o all, they favored heat seekers over everything. Every pharaon had to be buried with a rocket launcher and a pack of rockets, so they can start shooting at trespasser few thousends years later upon revival in a form of Revenant. Second, they tended to like deathmatchs - ancients were most probably aware that somebody may eventually come across pharaoh tombs and therefore revive them, so to keep up the fun, they scattered some .12 guage and 9 mm ammo for intruders to win some frags. Third, they architecture and choice of textures was absolutely beautiful.

Old Post 03-06-14 07:40 #
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Crusader No Regret
Junior Member


Posts: 109
Registered: 12-10


MAP05: Abu Gurab 101% kills, 4/5 secrets, 1 death

Recognizable music from go. Warmup period is over early. The large outdoor area looks more dangerous than it actually is. Since I was in no particular hurry, I lured hellknights into dispatching some shotgunners on a ledge. Even with aid from infights, my health dropped below 20% on both attempts so the berserk secret proved welcome. Lots of corridor navigation around the main outdoor area; its presence helps hide that the texturing in the corridors probably hasn't changed much from previous maps. I sure didn't notice.
The death came in the room behind the yellow key door. Hitting a switch revealed a revenant. I had the idea of retreating to the other side of the key door which proved fatal. The successful attempt had a fail moment with taking 7 shots from a shotgun to put down a single chaingunner. Rest of the map went by without mishap. Forgot how to access the soulsphere secret even though I've watched a maxdemo.

MAP06: Revived Bones 100% kills, 7/7 secrets

Well, the revenant that warps in at the start is memorable. It's most practical to find some heavier weaponry and/or a playmate for the skeleton. This map has the first appearance of green armor outside a secret area. Ammo can be a bit tight early until acquiring SSG and chaingun. Once the ammo supply is secured, there's not much danger of death. The most enjoyable part of the map for me is tracking down all the secrets. Visuals are consistent and inoffensive and not really memorable. The archviles provided little trouble. I remembered their locations and they didn't resurrect anything. It was other monsters responsible for the only two times I fell below 50% health. One was the revenant at the start and the other was a sneaky teleporting mancubus.

Last edited by Crusader No Regret on 03-08-14 at 10:17

Old Post 03-06-14 08:11 #
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Magnusblitz
Forum Regular


Posts: 948
Registered: 12-12


MAP05: Abu Gurab
100% kills, 0/5 secrets

Ugh, that music. I mean, it's a good theme, but it's just blaringly loud. Not a fan.

Finally get a large outdoor area, and it's a bit of a whammy. For whatever reason, having revenants far away and above me is always frustrating for me - lots of dodging around, and hard to hit them with rockets with sky behind them. Ah well. Didn't find a single goddamned secret, either.

This one really goes hog-wild with the textures, sometimes overly so, but at least it stands out I suppose. The one gameplay moment (aside from the outdoor area) that really stood out is the baron pincer ambush - so many people don't know how to use barons and tend to make them useless as anything more than meatshields, but here they're close enough to the player to pose a threat, and the pincer setup makes dodging their fireballs more difficult than normal.

MAP06: Revived Bones
100% kills, 7/7 secrets

On the other hand, this music, while not ridiculously loud, is a bit lame in comparison with it's Wolfenstein-style droning (apparently it's a Duke3d track, go figure).

Gameplay is also a large step down, with a return to corridors upon corridors. I do like the revenant ambush at the start - feels like a monster you missed in a previous level decided to track you down, heh. Also, the ending is a bit nice, with the Arch-Viles providing a good reason for the title. Aside from that, though, it's pretty vanilla, with monsters rarely coming from multiple directions or providing much of a threat. But hey, at least I was able to find all the secrets this time (partially with the help of the comp map... scroll... whatever).

Old Post 03-06-14 08:39 #
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Capellan
Forum Regular


Posts: 985
Registered: 10-02


map05
Ugh, hitscanners in wide open spaces - in particular chaingunners high enough to make auto-aim fritz out.

Apart from that, not bad. I liked the Baron fight for the red key, though the AV after it didn't seem to do much. I ran past him, kited most of the exit monsters into infighting, and exited with 179/120 or so.

Old Post 03-06-14 09:22 #
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scifista42
Forum Staple


Posts: 2648
Registered: 05-12


MAP06 - Revived Bones

I like how the layout got looped and relatively nonlinear, but not overly interconnected. Player still feels how the architecture limits him and forces to take (moderately) longer ways around, which is good for an atmosphere of this wad in particular. Tombs shouldn't feel too much friendly to a strange visitor's navigation sense.

Liking the aesthetics and the secrets. This time I got all of them quite easily. The map doesn't have much height variation, but I didn't mind it during my playthrough at all, I can say I only realized it now. The portraited kind of place doesn't need height variation for its functionality.

Gameplay was non-intense, yet I died two times. Once by an archvile, once due to my extremely bad movement while fighting one mancubus. I also noticed that the monster count and density got increased at places, I wonder if it's a foreboding of future slaughter-like tendency. While not really thrilled by anything in particular, I enjoyed the level.

Old Post 03-06-14 14:14 #
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Demonologist
Member


Posts: 545
Registered: 08-09


Map06 - “Revived Bones”
The title of this map is anything but misleading - the revived bones is the most accurate description of what awaits you right after the start. I suppose it's a reasonable thing to say that trying to fight that revenant tailing you with just a pistol isn't a great idea, so your best option is to run and search for some more reliable firepower. Directions taken play their role in your fate, so watch where you're going to.
I must say that, despite all the possible highlights others could pick, I pretty much disdain this map aesthetic-wise, it's almost like a quintessence of corridor-based approach in leveldesign. And even though some traps here can be considered hectic and some situations - pretty adrenaline-boosting (that final mess is definitely the one to mention), in the end it's all about running this damn long narrow corridors from one end to another, then back again, then across, then above, then below... Uhhh. An exaggeration of course, but I hope you get the point.
I can't say this map is really bad, but it also seems largely uninspired to me. Some gameplay situations, however, still make it stand out in my memory banks while also keeping it from being utterly dismissed.

Old Post 03-06-14 15:59 #
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Rook
Mini-Member


Posts: 87
Registered: 11-13


Map 06

I quite like the gameplay here, although it's not as good in the second half. The two archvile encounters are very nicely designed, particularly the second one. I think where the map really lets itself down is in the lazy, corridor-based design of the first two third or so - as a few others have said, it feels very backwards and does a disservice to a map where Eternal ultimately gets a lot of things right.

Old Post 03-06-14 19:23 #
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Demon of the Well
Senior Member


Posts: 1008
Registered: 02-13


Map 07 -- Hell Guard - 114% Kills / 100% Secrets
Dead Simple remix + encore. The actual Dead Simple segment, which comes first, is really pretty lame--all of the monsters are stuck either on the wall enclosing the small square arena where the player begins, or in the case of the replenishing supply of former human commandos, on a couple of symmetrically placed pillars in said arena (Edit: the token mancubi are actually stuck on top of thick square platforms outside of the walls). None of the monsters can reach the player, and only the commandos stand a realistic chance of hitting a mobile player (whereas the mancubi are afforded a very poor angle and usually aren't a factor), said chance negated by the convenient blur spheres. Yawn. Kill mancs, and the walls come down to find you surrounded by a bunch of arachnatrons in a larger flat yard. Yawn again.

That's not the end, though. There's a short sojourn via teleporter into a couple of small corridors in search of the blue skull key, which unlocks the exit bars. Not much of note happens in the corridors, indeed, most of the opposition one sees here actually teleport away after taking a step or two (I'm sure we can all guess where to). The second fight in the starting area is more serious, since the pair of arch-viles in combination with relatively scarce cover makes for a minute or two of fast-paced action (not too much of a problem given the ample ammo available, especially if one finds the secret in the corridors) that goes some small way towards making up for the turgid opening. Still one of the set's weakest maps, regardless....it even looks much more bland than other maps we've seen thus far, especially the outdoor area.

Old Post 03-07-14 06:44 #
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Capellan
Forum Regular


Posts: 985
Registered: 10-02


map06
I liked this a lot - good interconnected but not too maze-y layout, interesting variety of fights, solid architecture. Got 5/7 secrets, which is pretty solid for me. That let me exit the level with 200/200, which I consider a win :)

The revvie behind you at the start is nicely evil; use of revvies is good throughout this in fact. Also good with the AVs. I got to 15% health in the final fight before I dropped the last one and went to collect powerups.

Old Post 03-07-14 07:06 #
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SteveD
Senior Member


Posts: 1304
Registered: 04-10


Map04 - Sarcophagus - Kills - 105, Secrets - 50%, Death Count - Zero

The best I can say about this map is that at least I didn't die. Looks were good, atmosphere was foreboding, and ammo was scarce. I was down to 6 shells or so when I encountered the Spider Mastermind. Now I know how Cynical felt when, after battling his way through Map04 of Abcess, he found himself facing the SpiderQueen with nothing because I put so much ammo and weaponry in secret areas. He was not amused, and neither, in this map, was I.

I decided this was a good time to cheat, so I opened up DB2 to see if there was a nearby secret with ammo. There was, with nothing to flag it so far as I could see. With one shellbox and one bullet box I went and killed the SM and the Archie. This was just a time/ammo sink and really boring, IMO.

I feel bad about disliking this map, mainly because that room just before the SM was so cool and atmospheric, but as I stated earlier, I'm not a huge fan of maps this stingy with ammo. It doesn't suit my playstyle, so there's a good chance I'll go to HMP soon if this keeps up.

Old Post 03-07-14 08:05 #
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Demonologist
Member


Posts: 545
Registered: 08-09


Map07 - “Hell Guard”
Yet another D2 map07 remake, which is a shame in itself. Not a very good one, either. First, you have to deal with immobile mancubi and chaingunners taking a vantage point (of sorts) above your head that keep teleporting one after another (now it's time to tell that this trick - while being really annoying on its own - is the one to be encountered often in Epic 2, along with monsters that keep resurrecting with an aid of some hidden arch-viles and cybers constantly teleporting between several spots; I'll return to all this eventually), the fact that makes this fight as boring as it is, especially if mancubi's slow teleporting speed is also taken into consideration. After this soporific trial is finally over, you find yourself surrounded by arachnotrons. Not hard to dispatch, however, it's probably a part of this map that offers the most fun. Then it's a short run for a key where almost every enemy teleports away from you, easy to guess where to. And finally, you're thrown back to the starting area with a pair of arch-viles and their reanimated brethren awaiting you there with little cover for you left, so you'd better act fast to avoid incineration.
...And that is all. Very average execution of an old dumb idea, that doesn't seem to be fun in any way and has nothing interesting to offer in general.

Old Post 03-07-14 12:14 #
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Getsu Fune
formerly Hurricyclone


Posts: 1098
Registered: 06-13


MAP07: Hell Guard My Time: 3:43

Another Dead-Simple setup at the start. This map has one of my biggest pet peeves, teleporting monsters that "fill in" the spot of the previously killed monster. In this case, chaingunners and mancubi, though chaingunners were the only annoying ones out of this bunch. And even then they still weren't too bad. Enough space at the beginning if you want to spam rockets at enemies like I did. Then the walls lower revealing my favorite monsters plus a plasma gun, some invisibilities (read: hinderances), and a berserk. I'll admit I didn't use the plasma gun on this map, though the noises it makes are the Doom 3 plasma gun sound. In the interior aside after the teleporters, Eternal teases players with teleporting monsters, and after the blue key, an archvile takes a teleporter and everything winds up back at the "Dead Simple" area, where it's utter madness with some cover disappearing from the archies, but saving the megasphere helps. Still, zero strategy. I was somehow jumped to the upper rocky area, don't know if this was an error or not. Brutal map.

Old Post 03-07-14 13:40 #
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scifista42
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Posts: 2648
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MAP07 - Hell Guard

Well, the start, it's an arena, but anyway I wouldn't say it's too much MAP07-like. The initial fight was interesting at the very least, although I admit it could be done to be more comfortable for the player. Taking down enemies on raised ledges wasn't really. The part with arachnotrons was fortunately quickly over, and I could move on to the little side part. I'd say that area and this map in general was a nice example of effective simplicity in level design. Kind of Scythe-like. The final fight got me dead several times, but I can only blame myself - I felt it was beatable and quite fair. I just couldn't manage to find a good cover and efficient strategy in my first couple attempts.

Not a bad boss map. I enjoyed certain battles and have positive feelings about the map overally. The plasma cell pickup sprites are cute, look like bottles with water with a strange sign on them, which might be implying it's some more powerful liquid - yet not plasma! :)

Old Post 03-07-14 15:58 #
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Phobus
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MAP06: Revived Bones
The consensus among you guys seems to be it's mostly an unexciting network of corridors with a droning track from Duke3D. I agree, although I think the secrets are great and monster usage is good considering the actual architecture.

Pretty nice to see a bit of a story here, particularly as I know it ties in well to MAP11.

MAP07: Hell Guard
Well, it's an arena. No surprise there! The first stage is pretty lethal, the Arachnotrons are a pushover and then the final arena battle is a bit unfair as the cover is pretty limited and I'd always teleport in to be instantly cooked by an AV. The chaingunners in the arena were definitely the most irritating thing here though.

Old Post 03-07-14 19:00 #
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7hm
Mini-Member


Posts: 78
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MAP07: Hell Guard

That second arena fight, bleh.

I ended up just bailing on it and leaving without killing everyone a second time. Otherwise I enjoyed the level.

Old Post 03-07-14 21:19 #
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Magnusblitz
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Posts: 948
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MAP07: Hell Guard
100% kills, 1/1 secret

Dead Simple remake, blargh. At least there's a bit in-between the two arena battles, and the AVs provide a nice challenge (almost too hard in a way, if you don't get some monster infighting you'll probably die horribly since it's very difficult to dodge both the AVs and the huge mass of revenant rockets). The first part is just drudgery - like many others, teleporting in replacement sniper enemies is one definitely one of my pet peeves. At least I found the secret megasphere as a reward for staying and clearing out the level, even if I had to trade all my rockets to do so.

Old Post 03-07-14 23:42 #
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Getsu Fune
formerly Hurricyclone


Posts: 1098
Registered: 06-13


MAP08: Karnak Temple My Time: 9:17

It's a return to the same style of hallways and the odd ambush here and there. First secret--eh I'm not to keen on it really. You got to be quick for that one. Onwards, there's the interesting gold-filled chambers with several monsters coming in from pillars. that's cool. Then it's the "build a bridge" scenario which is also quite fun, with lots of secrets nearby. And finally the Tricks-and-Traps-in-the-open type of thing with a cyber and some other monsters that you can cause all-out-war with. Again, my pet peeve shows up, teleporting chaingunners. So bad here I grabbed the invisibility much to my chagrin with projectiles, focusing all attention on those hitscan pricks. Then it's kill whoever necessary until the end, usually the cyber, then the two archies. Of course, not forgetting that megasphere secret either, some secret for this pyramid.

Old Post 03-08-14 03:56 #
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SteveD
Senior Member


Posts: 1304
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Map05 - Abu Gurab - Kills - 100, Secrets - 40%, Death Count - 3

Quite the nasty start here. Glad I read Crusader No Regret's post before playing, since I copied his strategy of luring Hell Knights into killing all those Sergeants on the far ledge.

This map is almost like penance for my own jagoffy designs. Let's see, big, symmetrical room with mostly symmetrical Thing placement? Check. Turreted high Chaingunners that defy auto-aim? Check. Dickish Revvie placement? Check. Hitscanners and Imps wandering around on player's plane for distraction and occasional fatal blows? Check. Really, the main thing different from my dickish designs was the Pinkies pushing the player in various directions, so Eternal managed to out-nasty me in this type of room. All 3 of my deaths occurred in the outside room, twice by Revvie and once by zombieboy bullet. I barely survived opening the door after that, since my health was low and the long hallway stretching both ways had a Revvie and Chaingunner waiting for me. I retreated outside, and their aggressive pursuit damn near finished me a 4th time.

The rest of the map saw me sweating over ammo -- again! -- and health was tight until I discovered the tricky Soulsphere secret. I had already found the Blue Armor, so I began to breath easy at that point. Too soon, as it turned out, because although the 4-Baron red key trap -- rather similar to something I designed in '97 -- was no problem, the Chaingunner who waddled out while I was otherwise occupied stole about 100 health points with amazingly accurate fire. That was some serious RNG fuckery.

After that, the Revvie and Archie fell like clay pigeons to my mighty rocket launcher. There followed an anemic Caco swarm and a little bit of tight-space business with Mancs and a Revvie at the exit, where I was pleased to see a Stargate. Hmmm, wonder if Eternal played Osiris, or was a Stargate fan on his own, or grabbed this texture from another game?

Anyway, pretty good map, though I'm glad I came in on continuous play. I only had 28 bullets after that silliness at the end of Sarcophagus, but I had all the weapons up to the rocket launcher plus the goodness of a Backpack. I would have suffered more than 3 deaths if the best thing I had at the start was a normal shotgun.

This Eternal is one mean dude. ;)

One last note, in the water room, the Chaingunner who rises up on a slow floor is a stroke of genius. I was very lucky to see him before he sprayed me into oblivion.

Old Post 03-08-14 07:27 #
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Demonologist
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Map08 - “Karnak Temple”
Seeing that Luxor isn't very far from Karnak - it's gonna be a very long ride (and also the one extremely far from a straight line) since Luxor is map26...
In the very beginning you have to look closer to get that ssg, and you're gonna need it. Still, this map isn't very generous on ammo, so you have to literally count your bullets. Not the approach I like, however - there are obvious highlights like interesting blue key sequence, raising the bridge to the red key (red key fight itself may seem a bit too rough with the space given and the general lack of ammo, but soulsphere secret is there to help) and that nice final outdoor cyberdance, with 'respawning' chaingunners (again) being the only real annoyance.
I like this map. First, it tends to be varied enough even if it's still corridor-based, it offers some nice traps and interesting situations and it's pretty enough, too. And music fits in here well, adding to the mood a lot.


SteveD said:
This Eternal is one mean dude. ;)

Never forget that his first map ever released was a long and pretty demanding slaughtermap.

Old Post 03-08-14 07:59 #
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Capellan
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map07
Dead Simple plus a revvie and AV redux. Meh.

Old Post 03-08-14 08:15 #
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Phobus
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Demonologist said:
Never forget that his first map ever released was a long and pretty demanding slaughtermap.

And of course he did XXXI Cybersky! Although these days I tend to associate him more with Eternal Doom-style switch hunts in expansive, gorgeous locations that use some of the rarer themes, as well as high-concept stuff like Gravity.

MAP08: Karnak Temple
It's a good looking map with suitably stereotypical music and some good game play set-ups. The sequence to get the blue key is great and that final battle is nice enough when you realise you can cheese it a bit by leaving the Cyberdemon to infight whilst picking off the chaingunners one-by-one from behind some sound blocking lines :D When I was done with them, it was easy to run around the outside to mix up what was left, pick off the biggest (non-Cyberdemon) threats to my health and then finish him up with the amply-supplied plasma rifle from the last few maps. Secrets are great once again and missing one of them felt like Eternal had done a good job being creative rather than me missing something that should be obvious, so bravo Mr Alexander S.

I think I prefer Karnak as it's represented in Serious Sam: TFE though :P

Old Post 03-08-14 08:56 #
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SteveD
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Demonologist said:
Never forget that his first map ever released was a long and pretty demanding slaughtermap.


Something tells me I'll never manage the whole megawad on UV . . .

Old Post 03-08-14 09:42 #
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Crusader No Regret
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MAP07: Hell Guard 101% kills, 0/1 secrets skill 2

Didn't feel like replaying the map ten times to die at the final setpiece each time so went the easy route. Opening is a mild annoyance (SSG and rockets not very suited to ledge monsters) but the last fight is not fun. Two archies, a half dozen revenants. and the demons getting in the way when scrambling for scant cover. If it's not being burned by archviles, it's getting splattered by homing missiles. The hardest fight by a huge margin thus far. It leaves a harsh impression which is too bad. The buildup is actually done well and if there were no archviles, I'd enjoy the challenge rather than hate it. There doesn't seem to be a clue for the secret either. I found it but am not claiming credit for it.

Deathcount really was zero on skill 2. Since no one else mentioned it, I'll bring up what I call "mercy invulnerability." These only show up on the lowest difficulty and trivialize otherwise difficult encounters, perfect for casual play and making the set accessible to a wide range of skill levels. This map is the first instance of one and allows me to pelt the archviles with rockets safely.

MAP08: Karnak Temple 100% kills, 5/6 secrets, 5 resurrects

Back to HMP for this outing. Also arbitrarily used Zdoom so though there were resurrected monsters, tally screen showed 100% kills. On skill 2, one could tough things out without SSG but on higher difficulties, obtain it before leaving the start area. Some meaner monster setups here, one that really stuck out is a faraway revenant. Offing it takes me through a low light area patrolled by spectres. This was another map where I felt satisfied tracking down the secrets.
All my deaths came in the last area. Yes, I died even though I entered with 200/200. Having cyber infight is the way to go as there's very little plasma when playing from scratch. I abandoned all pretense of skill after the first death and died three more times before cleaning out that area and switch hunting. The archvile pair at the exit got one more kill, wasn't prepared for one to teleport away.

Last edited by Crusader No Regret on 03-08-14 at 10:10

Old Post 03-08-14 09:51 #
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Map 07

I'm not a Dead Simple detractor but rather a fan of them, so I quite enjoyed this. The problem, as others have said, that in the first main fight (the actual Dead Simple-esque part, if you like) the Mancubi are in such an elevated position that they pose little threat - the only damage you take are from yet more elevated chaingunners.

I definitely like the way the map expands out beyond that point and then loops you back into another much tougher encounter in the same arena. Personally I didn't find the archviles too tricky to deal with.

Map 08

The first half of this map feels to a large extent like a rehash of various elements from earlier maps - the room in which a sequence of switches reveal more enemies, the area with a couple of raising bridges, and so on. Later, we come to a much more interesting arena fight which relies very heavily on exploiting infighting, but is a lot of fun. Another quite patchy map, but it comes good in the end, I think.

Old Post 03-08-14 12:37 #
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plums
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Epic 2: Maps 1-6
Doing a map a day doesn't really suit me, but I do enjoy the DWMC, so I guess I'll post in blocks too.

I like the atmosphere and texture use. Egyptian settings lend themselves fairly well to "blockiness", and so do vanilla maps, so that's a good fit. The sounds feel a bit half-assed; it's weird when a Zombieman sometimes makes a completely new Egyptian mummy growl, but other times just does one of his normal sounds. Don't really like the bullet sound, or the use of the Hexen powerup as a teleport sound, but eh.

I'm playing on HMP pistol starts, after poking around in a few levels and deciding that HMP continuous would be too easy but UV might have too many antagonizing moments. As it is the difficulty is a bit stilted, with lots of "shoot some imps down a corridor" moments, but then the occasional AV surprise out of nowhere.

I like it so far, wondering how long the same theme can hold out though. There's been a bit of texture variation, but it's a whole lot of yellow and brown still.

edit for some more stuff:

I think the complete replacement of textures and sounds makes it harder for the player to tell what's a plain wall, what's a usable object, whether pushing something made something happen, etc. And I think this is done on purpose, to give a sense of newness to the wad. Whether it was intentional or not, I do feel like I'm exploring an unfamiliar setting moreso than if it used stock Doom resources, which I appreciate and also makes me content to have some easier gameplay.

The music is mostly good but some tracks are way too quiet.

Still unhappy with the sound effects. Especially the "clunk" when you land, and especially on water. I know it's Doom but between the sound and the texture, the water really feels flat.

I just finished Map 07, I think the Mancubi are not so much of a threat as they are a moving target to take down while being attacked by chaingunners. Whatever the case, I enjoyed this map.

Last edited by plums on 03-08-14 at 23:00

Old Post 03-08-14 21:06 #
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Capellan
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map08
Flick a switch to flick a switch to flick a switch is getting a little bit tedious, but overall I liked this level. The staged lowering of pillars to get the blue key was probably the lowlight, as it felt like busy work. The final courtyard (switch frenzy aside) was probably the best bit - nice run and gun with a double AV surprise at the end. I eventually dealt with that by charging up the stairs and plasaming that one, then sniping the other as it loitered at the bottom of the steps.

Good architecture on the whole here. I like the darker textures better than the lighter one.

The one multi-switch thing I did like on the level was 'use this switch to open that switch over there, then shoot that switch before it closes'. That was quite neat.

Got the secret megasphere just before leaving, which sets me up nicely for next level.

Old Post 03-08-14 23:06 #
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I think you'll be able to handle most of the WAD on UV, Steve. Not saying it's going to be easy, mind, but it doesn't start getting really nasty until near the end.

Crusader No Regret said:
There doesn't seem to be a clue for the secret either. I found it but am not claiming credit for it.
The clue is that the little bits of lights or lacquering or whatever it's supposed to be on the upper edge of the inset are colored red instead of white. Subtle, but not quite as tricky as that red-herring-except-it-actually-isn't green torch in map 04.

Map 08 -- Karnak Temple - 103% Kills / 100% Secrets
Ah, Karnak. I reckon just about every game I've ever played that features an Egyptian setting has tried some depiction of Karnak, usually grandiose and/or climactic in presentation (for example, it was one of the final/centerpiece levels in Powerslave, where many of Epic 2's resources come from). Eternal's treatment of it is a bit more understated, although memorable in its own way, if nothing else for featuring that unusual 'Indian Song' track from the Eternal DooM soundtrack. A strange choice for an Egyptian setting, that, although I suppose it was no less odd-sounding in the graveyard/mausoleum level in which it first debuted.

Anyway, it has been said that this level seems like a return to the spindly catacomb-crawling that comprised most of maps 01-07, but I don't think I quite agree with that. Seems to me that Karnak Temple has a different sort of flow to it, being based almost entirely on a series of largely unrelated setpieces or concept areas, with little in the way of interstitial space between them (mainly just the small foyer with the fountain). The blue and red key wings both involve a lot of switch-hittery and other interactivity that reshapes the architecture in some way (the lowering pillars in the former case and the impact-driven bridge-building in the latter), with relatively minor combat encounters featuring monsters placed more to pose an inconvenience than a real threat (although the vile in the blue key area might be slightly problematic if a lot of corpses happen to be piled up in the center of the room rather than on the periphery). The start area presents a puzzle of sorts, though only for pistol-starters--the 70 bullets you'll have access to in this area are simply not enough to kill the hell knights that guard the switches opening the entrance (especially if you use some on the pair of imps too), so the player will need sharp eyes and fast reflexes in order to get the SSG resting mockingly on top of the obelisk to the east (as well as a backpack and a case of shells for the really clever).

In order to end on a climactic note, the finale presents a sort of concise, mostly easy arena-battle on a nice open terrace under the blue sky; it's the sort of high-flash but low-stress battle most notably popularized in recent years by Skillsaw. My favorite bit of the map is actually the arch-vile pair at the end; this is essentially exactly the same idea we saw at the end of map 07, but here the arena is a little more appealing and at least one of the viles will likely get to do a good bit of resurrecting while his partner distracts you from afar. Oh yes, more of those replenishing chaingunners that everybody loves here, although once again there's a blur sphere to use that makes them largely irrelevant.

Decent map, but seems a bit piecemeal and less focused than a lot of the earlier maps, even if it is architecturally more open and complex.

Last edited by Demon of the Well on 03-09-14 at 03:27

Old Post 03-09-14 03:20 #
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