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reflex17
Warming Up


Posts: 26
Registered: 02-14


Large tech base/military theme map for single player. DM/Co-op supported.

Screenshots:
http://s7.photobucket.com/user/scen...lgate%20Complex

Download:

DOOM version:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/e...6oaa/HGCXD1.zip

DOOM 2 version:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/a...49mi/HGCXD2.zip

(.zip contains .wad and .txt file)

Last edited by reflex17 on 03-20-14 at 20:28

Old Post 03-20-14 19:20 #
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plums
Senior Member


Posts: 1623
Registered: 08-13


Interesting, why both Doom and Doom 2?

Old Post 03-20-14 19:21 #
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reflex17
Warming Up


Posts: 26
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I can never decide which game I like better, and so with that I thought it'd also be nice if people could choose their preference of game if they wanted.

The map layout is unchanged between versions but item/enemy placement is completely redone to hopefully keep it fresh for anyone that wants to try both :)

Old Post 03-20-14 19:34 #
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scifista42
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Posts: 1795
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Awesome extensive techbase map. As I've experienced, you're able to create a fun playing Heretic map (that's hard IMO), and here you're showing your great abilities again. You obviously well understand principles of what the player wants and finds as fun. I also like the unified-yet-varied aesthetics going on in this large base, and a certain "semi-realistic" approach (teleport labs, storages, ventilation shafts) well fitted into a pleasant classic-Doom environment. I even see some Doom3-like structural resemblances in this regard (I see them because once I was trying to make classic Doom maps inspired by D3 layouts).

I enjoyed the D1 version! Tried just a little of the D2 one, but it could be only better I assume, in gameplay I mean. However, D1 version has a bug - teleporter to the final cyberdemon area doesn't work.

You could have added some custom music track, because veteran Doomers are already tired of the default first map original midis.

I will note you about a couple design choices which aren't critical at all, but you should better avoid them in Doom mapping, generally speaking. Of course, if you have a good reason like in this map, you can disregard them, but count with some people moaning. The things are: Multiple chainsaw placements, openable silver doors, certain normal-looking doors being unopenable, lifts with weird-functional oparation (one side/one way only, or unnecessary switch on a top to lower the lift, multiple switches to lower the same lift). I don't mind either particular instance in your map. I liked it a lot!

I'd compare your work with another newcomer Doomworlder, meapineapple (http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/67703-moonlight/), who has a very similar style to you, but who could learn a lot about eye-pleasant room shaping and texturing from you, as well as an interesting gameplay and a "natural" Doom gameplay feel. Yes, you turn out better in this comparison.

Old Post 03-20-14 20:22 #
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reflex17
Warming Up


Posts: 26
Registered: 02-14


I updated the original link with a fix for the teleporter, can't believe I missed that. >.< This bug was not present in the D2 version.

EDIT: Thank for playing scifista! I have noted your points about Doom level conventions, it wouldn't take long to update the maps. I consider this level a huge 'thankyou note' to the doom community, so last thing I'd want is to break the time-tested ideas. The chainsaw must be a mix-up on my part, and the other points make sense. Any opinions or critiques are much appreciated.

As far as my goals are concerned, if anyone has fun or learns something from this map my job is done. I have played moonlight and found it good fun, most of my feedback was already said in it's main thread.

Thx again for the comments :)

Last edited by reflex17 on 03-20-14 at 20:41

Old Post 03-20-14 20:29 #
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tourniquet
Junior Member


Posts: 235
Registered: 12-13


Wow very large and complex map, you definitely got potential. Though some custom music would have been nice.

Old Post 03-20-14 20:42 #
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reflex17
Warming Up


Posts: 26
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Thanks for playing tourniquet!

I might even agree about the music, altho I can personally never be tired of doom music I do have a pretty high tolerance for monotony.

I've looked into SLADE editor for changing music/level names etc. but I haven't quite got the grasp of it by the time this map was ready. If your ears are bleeding I apologize ^_^

Old Post 03-20-14 20:58 #
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plums
Senior Member


Posts: 1623
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Great map!

FDA for Doom 2 version.
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/attachm...?postid=1251314

Unfortunately I died unceremoniously in the blood pit during the big fight at the end. A little frustrating that it seemed to be inescapable, after such a long map without anything like that. I don't mind death-pits on smaller maps but here it seemed a bit out of place. Unless I just couldn't figure out how to get out in time... oh well.

I played in Crispy Doom which is like Chocolate Doom with increased limits, and noticed a lot of tutti frutti in places. Don't know if you want to bother to fix that or not since most ports don't have the TF bug, but here's a few examples. Also a crate that had some weird flat bleeding from some angles.
http://imgur.com/a/zAtrF

Anyhow I agree with previous comments. Different music would really help. I did also notice a similarity to meapineapple's Moonlight, though I liked that map for what it was. But yeah, this one was fun and had a lot of paths to take and different routes to explore, but still felt directed enough that I didn't really get lost ever. Well done.

Old Post 03-20-14 21:06 #
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reflex17
Warming Up


Posts: 26
Registered: 02-14


Thanks a lot plums! Your screenshots are really helpful, I'll update the map when it comes time if there are any other bugs. That damn crate is weird, all when I thought that bug was squashed. I must've made that crate differently than all the others lol.

Sorry to hear about the pit, I was really debating that when I was making the area. It is pretty unfair, I'll think of a way to let the player escape and include that update as well.

Also I appreciate the FDA, with this map I thought a lot about player interaction in terms of gameplay space so it's really cool to see it in action from another viewpoint. Muchos thankyous!!

Old Post 03-20-14 21:25 #
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plums
Senior Member


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Welcome. The layout was strange in that for a long time I didn't really feel much sense of "progress", at least until I got the key, because it was so interconnected and nonlinear it was kind of hard to get a sense of where I should be going. But there were always new areas to explore so it wasn't stale; quite the opposite in fact, it felt more like an actual place instead of a video game level, and I enjoyed going through it.

The pit, I don't know, some people will tell you that inescapable pits are always bad. I have mixed feelings about them. Certainly I should have been a little more careful, and it's not like it was hidden or anything, but I was still surprised a bit when I discovered I couldn't get out.

Old Post 03-20-14 22:17 #
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reflex17
Warming Up


Posts: 26
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Both this map and my recent Heretic level have traces back in the early days of Doom... A long time ago I made a map similar to this, but the only thing I could remember was the front of the base, and that the player had their choice of which way to attack it.

Back in those days I was heavily inspired by maps like UAC_dead and Phobos Revisited, maps that had that 'semi-realistic' style, so that's something I was definitely going for. The outside of the base required multiple paths so I kept that going while working on the interior, while trying to maintain a narrowing focus as the level went on. It was tough to balance and keep it challenging, I'm quite surprised no one has said there's too little ammo/too much health.

As for the pit, now that I think about it, there probably should be a way out of there... if you can make it out and survive that is pretty tough...

Old Post 03-20-14 22:46 #
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plums
Senior Member


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I thought the ammo balance was pretty good, I got some large stockpiles at points but then burned through a lot of it whenever I got a key. Punching demons helps some. That reminds me there was a Mancubus I was able to punch out because he wasn't moving at all, you may have caught that in the demo.

Old Post 03-20-14 23:08 #
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reflex17
Warming Up


Posts: 26
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Yeah I just finished watching, coulda sworn I fixed that mancubus >:|

Your playthrough was awesome to see, along with the stuck monster it helped with a few things I could do to improve the map. There were certain times when monsters got clumped up (after the YK especially) and I might try to do a few things and avoid that happening as much.

Overall a fun and informative demo, it helps a lot.

Old Post 03-21-14 00:22 #
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Olroda
Green Marine


Posts: 41
Registered: 08-13


I played through the D1 version, and I liked it. Nice architecture. The sprawling complex reminded me a bit of Sin City 3 or Valhalla, by Ed C., which is a good thing. I'm glad you weren't afraid to include some dark areas, too. A lot of authors are, for some reason.

If you're thinking of replacing the music, I'd recommend something ambient (I had one of Aubrey Hodges Quake II tracks running in the background, and it fit pretty well), since it is a huge map, and not always of frantic pace.

The intermission screen told me that my time SUCKED, by the way.

Old Post 03-21-14 22:34 #
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Searcher
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Posts: 1351
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I enjoyed the d2 version. A Fun Play. Nice Map.

__________________
Happiness is a warm SSG ;)

Old Post 03-22-14 01:09 #
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degree23
Green Marine


Posts: 36
Registered: 07-13


I played the Doom 2 version. Ammo was quite tight at the start for me, so I wonder if I missed some of it along the way, but then there was a bit more later on. I did use quite a lot of it after picking up each key. I enjoyed the Cyberdemon fight, and I assume the pits people are talking about were in the middle of the arena. I just skirted around the edge of the arena for a lot of it to avoid eating a Cyberdemon rocket. Overall I really enjoyed playing this map!

Old Post 03-22-14 17:59 #
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reflex17
Warming Up


Posts: 26
Registered: 02-14


@Olroda: Thanks for the music tips, I agree something like that would be good. If it says your time sucked I guess you spent a long time in the map? It is a large level, so to see the clock that way is good in my eyes... means you explored a lot :)

@Searcher: Thanks for playing the level, I'm glad you liked it!

@degree23: Also thanks for trying the map :) I tried to make it kinda survival-horror style where there's enough ammo but you have to explore to find it. I'm glad it worked out in the end, I worried about the balance a lot.

Old Post 03-23-14 00:18 #
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degree23
Green Marine


Posts: 36
Registered: 07-13


In these sorts of maps I like it when there's just about enough ammo to get by without having to punch absolutely everything, but that if you explore around a bit for secrets, you find a bit of extra firepower (or ammo) that allows you to basically bypass one "encounter" easily. For example, a set of rockets hidden not long before you encounter two Hell Knights, that allows you to dispatch them easily, but that would otherwise eat up 12 shells (assuming you have a SSG) or more, or a ton of bullets.

Knowing where some ammo was on a second playthrough, as well as letting a bit more infighting occur before I dived in, made it a lot easier second time around. I still didn't end up with large amounts of ammo at the end though. Looking forward to more stuff from you!

Old Post 03-24-14 01:19 #
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Olroda
Green Marine


Posts: 41
Registered: 08-13


I fought through the D2 variant yesterday evning, and I liked that one as well. Maps with just enough ammo and health supplies to go around (or perhaps a bit less!) are really my "cup of tea".

I'm in agreement with Degree23: Looking forward to more stuff from you!

Old Post 03-24-14 12:31 #
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reflex17
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Posts: 26
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Thanks Olroda and degree for your additional comments.

I am glad to hear the balance worked out okay, item placement for both maps took almost as long as making the level itself. I thought originally that the monster swarms were too spammy, but in the end I left them as they were for a challenge. (the d2 monster numbers are scaled back due to the greater amount of higher-tier monsters that drop no ammo)

The openness of the level I suppose helped to that end, when there are a lot of monsters it makes good gameplay sense to have somewhere to run to. It was my plan all along to require the inventive player to rely on exploration and ammo drops, which is the hallmark of any good gameplay I guess, but without any prior beta-testing it's great to hear that balance was decent across the versions.

I really appreciate the comments and those folks who took the time to try both maps! I plan on doing a trilogy, so I'll do my best to update the levels as I go along and add music etc. for a final release on /idgames.

Thx again all for the downloads and replies.

Old Post 03-25-14 06:37 #
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Job
Forum Legend


Posts: 4863
Registered: 12-02


I like this map. It has the free-flowing layout from mid to late 90s maps (I'm a sucker for nostalgia) with the interconnectivity and texture variety of an E1/E2 map. The judicious use of Doom 2 monsters enhances the Doom 2 version, providing a healthy mid-tier bestiary. It is a clinic on how to use Doom 2 monsters while maintaining a Doom 1 feel.

Old Post 03-28-14 21:00 #
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