The DWmegawad Club plays: Doom 2 the Way id Did

Map 04 -- The Terminal (a.k.a. The Siltyards) - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
I think 'The Siltyards' is a better name, myself--rolls off the tongue a bit better, and paints a little more of a picture for those of us who like to read into Doom's abstract collections of sectors and beasties--so consider it a happy accident that it lives on via the automap title field, I say.

This is another interesting one. Imagining a hypothetical situation where this was a standalone PWAD that I pulled off the archive at random, I'd like to think that my impression would be 'This guy is clearly a fan of American McGee's E1 maps', as opposed to 'This could be an American McGee map.' The main thing that's off is the scale, I think....it's true that there are some large/tall rooms in McGee's maps (the one that springs most readily to mind for me would be the eponymous area from 'The Crusher'), but apart from some squidgy drops down the silt-chutes and maybe the upstairs throughway with the pushwall to the first secret, it's consistently broadstroke, and perhaps more importantly, consistently airy. I don't generally think of McGee maps as being 'cramped', but many of them do have this sort of stuffy, stale-air feel to them, though granted that's probably partially a psychological impression based on how brown and dingy and grimy his choice textures often were.

Speaking of, while I personally felt that map 03's green bricks/ceramic flooring looked quite believable as something McGee could've done, I don't think anyone's going to argue that the brown/metal/dirt scheme on display here doesn't hit the nail on the head--it's most of the E1 maps all in one, with a particular slant towards 'The Gantlet' and 'Waste Tunnels.' It's actually rather drab, in my opinion, but in this case it's a very authentic drabness. Ironically, while I've only seen a handful of maps by Alfonzo (nearly all of them speedmaps) on which to judge, I think that his penchant for interesting and unusual texture combos is one of his defining strengths, odd somehow to see this symphony in brown with his name on it. Another thing that struck me that probably shouldn't be taken as having any real bearing on anything but that may be vaguely interesting to some is the marked scarcity of liquids in this map--I think all that's here is the unimportant little pool of nukage near the start, right? Another departure from McGee, then, as other than his map 07 collab with Sandy all of his maps use significant amounts of liquids in various places, either simply for visual flair or as part of a play concept.

The action is the map's stronger point. We're still in Hitscannerlandia as one might reasonably expect, and the limited threat the opposition poses is still largely a function of the scarcity of body armor, but there's more pizzazz, fun-for-the-sake-of-it mini-setpiece stuff in here than in previous maps. I particularly like the barrels just behind the dividing partition in the room at the bottom of the chutes--time it just right and you can kill everything in the sunken part of the room with just those, which is an incredibly satisfying feeling. Firing a pistol shot at the chaingunners in the room overlooking the berserk pack's chamber in order to have them perforate all of the guys that jump out of the alcoves to ambush you is also quite amusing, as is dashing for the SSG then using it to devastate the crowd of red key guardians (more satisfying introduction of this weapon than in the IWAD, frankly). I did play it more than once, mind, because I wanted to find the second secret (which is rather clever, by the way); it probably is one of those maps that's significantly more fun to play when you know it a little better, but that's not something I view as necessarily being a flaw.

MAP05

I love the idea of this level, using lava as a principal design choice in an E1 map is bold and different but still acceptable in my mind as something that could have happened, which is much preferred to safe choices. In my opinion some of the execution is a tad wide of the mark though, I spent a long time taking damage in return trips to the lava while I struggled to find the blue key, the Revenants were introduced in what will have been a memorable but unlikely way for an E1 level and overall the difficulty seemed too high for a Doom II E1 level but, the disoriented tangent aside, I did enjoy the level on its own merits.

Map 05 -- The Boiler - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Hmm, now this is something. Probably even moreso than map 03, this looks and feels like something really distinct, something that has no real analog in either theme or feel to much to be found in doom2.wad; it's at points like these that I think D2TWiD (or indeed, any of the TWiD WADs, past present or future) is going to be at its most interesting; while none of the maps so far have appeared particularly homage-y of specific setups in the IWAD, many of them have been broadly reminiscent of particular IWAD maps (e.g. map 02's Underhalls + The Focus vibe); aiming for something that's thematically far removed from anything in the IWAD while still attempting to capture the overall Hell on Earth feel is an ambitious (and worthy) aim, to say the least.

So, does 'The Boiler' seem very McGee? Well, it's got the scale pegged more accurately than the last map, certainly, as well as the previously mentioned square-jawed character to the shapes and of course the significant presence of liquids AND the fact that it feels a lot more close and stuffy. The persistently very low ceiling and corridor-heavy layout might be something of a talking point; depending on how pedantic one wants to be I suppose this is arguably inauthentic (if anything that's more of a Tom Hall trait, I guess?), but it certainly contributes a great deal to the distinct look and mood of the map, and thus I'd say it's an asset even if it arguably throws the whole slightly off-model. Texture usage also deviates a bit--in some ways, the many grates/bars and the granite skeleton of the installation speak as much of Romero as McGee (maybe it's the juxtaposition with lava that splits the impression like this), but as in map 03, I think there's a good argument that McGee could very well have made something skinned like this if he'd contributed more maps to the final product.

It's consistently entertaining to play (as opposed to having bright spots and dirt-dull spots), which if I wanted to be a cheeky bastard I might say costs it a few authenticity points as a McGee map, but let's not miss the forest for the trees, heh. If anything this plays almost like a jumped-up John Romero map from Knee Deep in the Dead, in that the combat comes almost entirely in the form of a steady flow of weak monsters that are able to converge on you from several directions if you don't methodically clean up as you go, such that you're pretty much constantly mowing something down as you progress through the installation, aided by the largest showing of explosive barrels yet--managing to feel very bloody while featuring under 100 monsters is something of an art, and Pavera has delivered in that respect. Despite the relatively insistent pace of the opposition, actual threat level is very low; the hitscan/attrition aspect that defined most of the earlier McGee-style efforts is effectively--perhaps a mite too effectively--mitigated by an early combat armor, and a reinfusion of standard armor later should you need it. The scalding liquid that is the Boiler's pith and purpose, while effective as a motivational force in the level progression, is not actually very dangerous either, given a quite adequate supply of radsuits...not sure how damaging the liquid is, but I didn't have a suit leak on me, so presumably it's not 20%, anyway. This map also introduces the Hell knight and revenant to D2TWiD; I kinda like the knight's debut, where he unexpectedly pops out in your face and says "Howdy!" (well, actually he says something like "Rooooouhh!", but you know what I mean), but the revenants fall a bit flat, having shown up late to the party and being SSG'd into bonedust several minutes before it even registered with my brain that this was the first I'd seen of them in the WAD.

Overall a successful venture. Again, I'm not entirely sure how histrionically authentic it really is, but I reckon it's a map I'll remember well after the month has ended, which is what really matters.

Map 04 – The Siltyard by Alfonzo – Kills – 100, Items – 100, Secrets – 100. Time – 11:39. End Health – 100, Armor – 200. Death Count – Zero

Oddly enough, considering how much time I've spent watching Alfonzo play, including several of my maps, along with listening to and reading his commentary, I think this is the first Alfonzo map I've actually visited.

And a somewhat odd map it is. On continuous play, the combat is light but interesting enough. It opens like a mash-up of Command Control and The Gantlet, but seems less dangerous than either map, which has been a continuing theme so far. Setpieces are built around “Gotcha!” teleports into unfriendly territory that force you to scramble but present no serious danger. In the most amusing incident, you trigger a Pinky “trap” where they all teleport harmlessly to a platform above you, allowing a leisurely “Shotgun them Demons to death” exercise. This was reminiscent of that infamous pcorf Pinky “trap” in 2002:ADO, where you grab a key and a horde of Pinkies floods the floor below you, leading to a tedious bout of murder where you slaughter completely helpless demons who have no way of attacking you. And here in Alfonzo's map, when you kill the Pinkies, you find a Zerk on their platform, so it seems the cart has pulled the horse, perhaps an example of Alfonzo's humor. I chuckled. ;D

As 7hm observed, the secrets are geared to continuous players, but I still object to them because they were not well-enough teased. However, this is consistent with McGee's dodgy approach to secrets, so fair enough. Unlike 7hm, I never dare resort to Pinky pugilism when confronted with a mixed crowd of Demons, hitscanners and Imps, so in the final fight I started with chaingun and then ran for the SSG, because I believe in The Iron Rule – Kill The Hitscanners First -- unless there's an Archie in the mix. ;D

Anyway, not a bad map. It has the McGee feel but is far, far kinder, as if McGee was your mom and wanted to make a map where the worst thing that might happen – at least on continuous play – is that you'll stub your toe. I'll have to give it a whirl on pistol sometime for the added danger, but having gone through it once, I doubt the challenge will be significantly enhanced.

Map 05 – The Boiler by Pavera – Kills – 100, Items – 100, Secrets – 100. Time – 21:12. End Health – 100, Armor – 158. Death Count – 1

The first SteveD pelt is obtained in a mostly brilliant map by Pavera. This map looks cool and has a great layout. It also plays a game of Good Jagoff/Bad Jagoff, the latter of which prevents it from being consistently awesome, IMO.

The map starts out with some tense hitscannery, especially the hitscanners and Imps in the lava below you. Some well-placed barrels help thin out the opposition, but the map remains tougher than all the previous ones as you're forced to cross lava and in the process excite the attention of numerous Chaingunners and other assorted brutes.

The Metal2 and Stone4 is nicely set-off by all the lava to create a simple but very attractive theme. Grates are well-used and, as DoTW noted, add a Romeroesque feel.

The primary difference between this map and the earlier ones is that Pavera seems to want your blood. We've already seen traps where you press a switch and the floor drops to leave you flanked, but now you're flanked by evilly-placed Chaingunners, so you better be quick. Another trap reveals the first Hell Knight, and then you're set upon by the first Revvies. I somehow survived the blue key trap with a loss of only 5% health – this was by miraculous luck, rather than skill – but I played the red key trap badly and was killed.

All of the above falls into the Good Jagoff category. The Bad Jagoff part was the fucking yellow key. I wandered all over the map looking for that damned thing, bloating my time, until I realized where it Had To Be, and I was not fucking amused in even the slightest degree. This is the kind of time-wasting bullshit that makes me resent a map.

That said, the excellent design, theme, and lighting, the persistently good combat and the overall sense that this guy wants to kill you, make it my favorite map so far.

Map05 - "The Boiler” by Pavera

This is a nice map, very complex layout. Straight away its a fight for resources with some tactical barrel usage before grabbing the shotgun. There seems like a lot of shit going on in every direction and for a while monsters constantly harass you as they filter in. I like how the damaging floor lurks below like a threat which you then end up having to go through to progress. The introduction of the revenants was quite cool, there's a real moment of panic when you realise you are stuck between them and a damaging floor with not much cover in between. That might have seemed a bit harsh in the original game with no prior knowledge of that enemy, but at least you are given a blue armour beforehand. The bit with the descending corridor into chaingunner ambush resulted in my first death so far, totally wasn't expecting that. Very funny though. Quirky exit, luckily I happened to turn around and see the yellow key. Not sure what the idea of that was, the only challenge would be in finding it if you didn't happen to spot it, and that would only work the first time. Good fun though this map.

Wad: Doom 2 the Way iD Did
Slot: 5
Map: The Boiler
Author: Walker Wright
Notes:
Now the levels are starting to get a bit longer / tougher. This one felt spot on as a McGee map. It's got the cramped feeling, the darkness, the blocky architechture, the monster traps (the drops feel just like the Waste Tunnels), it's even got the wonky lighting inset into the walls. This was definitely a notch more difficult than the previous maps. The secret is a bit tame and obvious. Intro to revenants, and they can do quite a bit of damage if they catch you off-guard. I don't know if the jump at the end is really a McGee thing, but I enjoyed having to do it. In the scope of the wad as a whole, it feels like it's saying: "hey, heads up, sometimes you need to do some platforming", and it makes sense for a slot 5 map to say something like that. I liked this map quite a bit.

It's interesting to see different people's takes on the intro to revenants. I found myself surprised by them and as a result that was the toughest part of the map for me. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that they worked.

I know that the maps aren't supposed to be exact comparisons to D2 maps, but I've been playing them at the same time and at the same pace, and I have to say that I really do think this one nails McGee's D2 early E1 style better than any of the others so far (or at least, the part of his style that stands out to me the most as I replay D2). Maybe he gets away from the crampedness later on, but stuff like Waste Tunnels, Underhalls, and sections of the Focus are really dark and filled with tight spaces, and I think this map really nails that.

(Well, the RK room in The Compound was probably the best for that aspect of McGee's E1 stuff, but the map as a whole felt a bit more open and bright, which I guess is more keeping in line with McGee's stuff as a whole.)

So yeah, the yellow key bit came about after being informed that McGee liked placing seemingly needless keys right before the exit.

Regarding the jump at the end -- he did it for a secret in The Gantlet, so I figured why not for an exit?

He did it at the end of waste tunnels too. I like it, in any case.

The YK didn't bug me because I saw it right away, but I think that'd be an instance where emulating style takes away from the map quality.

Map05 - "The Boiler” by Pavera
This map caught my eye the first time I played through this, and again it stands out for all the right reasons.
Interesting theme with a complex layout which works really well. A lot of monsters come are you from many angles and some mid-tier monsters thrown into the equation. Despite this map beating the player a lot more than the previous 4, there is a blue armour near the start and a lot of health lying around to patch up your wounds and then some. Definitely felt I could tackle this map a lot quicker than most maps so far.
This is my favourite map so far. Yellow key, well..... :P

Pavera said:

So yeah, the yellow key bit came about after being informed that McGee liked placing seemingly needless keys right before the exit.

Regarding the jump at the end -- he did it for a secret in The Gantlet, so I figured why not for an exit?

I don't mind the jump, I just had no desire to jump into lava leading to a yellow key door with no yellow key in my hand. ;D Other people say they saw the key. I went back into the map to see if I could see it. I couldn't. Some people are gonna like that, and some, like me, won't. And while it's true that the id boys did all kinds of dickish, jagoffy things, they could more easily get away with it because that was the official game. Trying to emulate that, in a world with squazillions of PWADs to play, is dicier. And I will always point to Map09 from Realm of Chaos -- my map -- where I force the player to find a secret door to finish the map. It's signaled with a texture offset, and most players found it, but some didn't, and some stopped playing the megawad because of that, so it's a risk.

Natch, for those of us who play frequent save/reload, a leap of faith is really no big deal. ;D

The good news, of course, is that the map kicks ass.

SteveD said:

I don't mind the jump, I just had no desire to jump into lava leading to a yellow key door with no yellow key in my hand.

Same here. This time around I remembered there was a trick to it, so I just dove in, and lo and behold there was the key.

SteveD said:

for those of us who play frequent save/reload, a leap of faith is really no big deal. ;D

Well, yeah, there's that, too. :D

SteveD said:

The good news, of course, is that the map kicks ass.

It does. I remember getting my ass handed to me the first time through, and getting lost in the lava at one point, or at least not knowing where to go next. No problems this time; I felt like I sped right through it (about 8 minutes, 100% everything, which is pretty good for me.) It was basically nonstop action and I felt like I was on the verge of death many times, but I don't think I died once.

Well, dicey or not, we did have to do some stuff like that for authenticity reasons because if you're gonna make maps in someone's style you gotta include the less favorable aspects too :P At least it's a hilarious dickmove in contrast to something like the imp rape cube in the factory(thanks sandy)

MAP05: The Boiler
100% kills | 1/1 secret

This map is actually pretty tough, despite the plentiful medkits and blue armor I was usually at low health. A lot of that has to do with having monsters attack from multiple angles as the player progresses through the level, as well as having lots of hitscanners. There's also good monster mixing, forcing me to eat damage while I wasted time switching between weapons. I liked having the lava bits around, probably just the right amount where it felt like a threat but not enough where it felt like drudgery (like a certain map in 2002 ADO).

As far as the yellow keycard, I made the jump forgetting there was a yellow door, then happened to turn around, saw the key, and remembered "oh yeah there's a yellow door here." So kinda lucky in that regard. In fairness, while McGee does have pointless keys (such as the yellow one in Waste Tunnels) it is plain sight...

Doom 2 The Way ID Did- MAP 5: HMP, Continuous, Keyboard Only

I'm not really a big fan of this map, it's not bad, there's just nothing here to get my interest. It gets the aspects of a McGee map right, but for some reason it reminded me more of map 22 than it did his early Doom 2 maps. The introduction of the Revenants & Hell Knights was meh & I was able to take care of them fairly easy. I didn't have any issue with the yellow key, I didn't see it at first, but with the rest of the map explored & a yellow door in front of me there was really only one place to look.

Ah, I forgot to say anything about the yellow key. Didn't trip me up because the first thing I did when I hit the yellow door was to turn around, and well, there it was (guess I can see where it might trip up somebody who notices the exit door is yellow-locked before they jump over there, but I didn't notice). A mite cheeky, perhaps, but McGee definitely did this kind of thing...actually, while most of the IWAD maps are as abstract as can be, I always imagined this superfluous key placement to be vaguely narrative in intention (e.g. somebody dropped the key to the door nearby when they were killed, like one of those horror flicks where the guy locks the door behind him but the room he's fled into is also ironically full of danger), but of course another popular interpretation is that McGee just sort of half-assed them in there because he had some kind of locked door quota that he was too lazy to account for until the last moment, heh.

Anyway, moving on.....

Map 06 -- The Gorge - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Heh, you can tell the target author here is Romero just from that loose gravel floor you're standing on at the outset. Fair play, though, the resemblance is pretty clear for most of the duration, with areas that are variously reminiscent of several of Romero's Doom II maps (the ones I was most reminded of were 'Tenements' and 'The Abandoned Mines', although the blue keycard is rather 'Circle of Death')--lots of barred windows, major chambers with several entrances/exits at several different height levels, irregularly-shaped walkways over ooze, the works. Even some 'meta' details are there, ala the off-kilter alignment of the rock texture over the small tunnel that leads to the escape teleporter from the blood-flooded floor of the Gorge itself. Once again, though, I feel like the scale of many of the major areas is a bit overlarge, which makes the level feel less interconnected than it actually is and robs it of some of that indefinably tight, spatially efficient feel that most of Romero's maps (maybe not 'Gotcha!...') had. It's largely a psychological thing, again, I suspect; you're actually only a scant few yards away from the exit switch when the map loads (which means this arguably has a looping layout once again ;) ), but the airy open chambers and vague-yet-linear progression make it feel more like a leisurely Sunday stroll than I remember most of Romero's Doom II maps doing, but perhaps that's just me. Not that I'm necessarily inclined to fault the spacious style much, mind you; as I'm sure I've said at various other points while discussing other WADs, I actually tend to be inclined towards that sort of thing, although there's a bit of a caveat in this case...

Now, the rub here is that while I just played the map early this morning, the specifics of its action have already become somewhat fuzzy in my memory, which is less than ideal, to say the least. As one might expect from the Romero-style glut of windows, ledges, overlooks and whathaveyou, there are a lot monsters that fire at you from a lot of different heights and distances, but the majority of them are surprisingly ineffective (including the hitscanners), either as a side-effect of the generous scale of the areas or by some odd placement decisions in a few cases. Very few specific combat setpieces stand out in my mind (although I did like that the first Baron of the mapset makes his appearance in a cheeky callback to the hell knight reveal from map 05); I have generalized memories of mowing down small groups of zombies and imps across various gaps, and of some consistently solid (if unthreatening) usage of cacodemons to float majestically across the open chambers, but that's about it. There's nothing necessarily wrong with most of a level's combat being incidental--on the contrary, see map 05!--but I feel like something as relatively protracted as this map needs a marquee encounter or two to help hold it together and vary the tempo a bit, which it just doesn't seem to have in this case.

Map06 - "The Gorge” by Esselfortium

Wow this map would have murdered me back in the day. The pistol start is particularly harsh as you fight for every scrap of ammo while chaingunners are sniping you, and each new area you push into to search for resources and cover reveals more bastard monsters. I died a few times just trying to get past that beginning in one piece. Its certainly not shy of using chaingunners, and the revenants are used well too. Its an excellent map, really well designed, definitely has that doom 2 feel of unfolding bastardry, reminds me of map26 a bit. Great secrets as well, was nice to feel so overpowered after clawing my way through the first half of the map. This was the first map that compelled me to save half way through.

Doom 2 The Way ID Did- MAP 6: HMP, Continuous, Keyboard Only

I was a little disappointed when I started this map up only to find that it wasn't a McGee map. The Crusher is one of my all time favorite IWAD maps & I was hoping to get a large McGee map similar in scale to that one. Speaking of large scale, this map is huge for such an early level & doesn't mesh well with the maps that preceded it, I was just begging for this map to be over halfway through it. Anyways this is clearly a Romero map & takes it's visual style from Tenements & The Abandon Mines, while the progression seems to come from The Living End where you work your way around the perimeter of a large central area. Monster placement is spot on & even directly rips off Tenements at one point, the yellow key room here is the red key room in Tenements, but Romero also ripped off of his own maps so it doesn't bother me too much. So yeah it gets the Romero elements right here, but any map that reminds me of Tenements doesn't get an enjoyable rating from me.

Slot: 6
Map: The Gorge
Author: Michael Mancuso
Notes:
I'm again making direct level comparisons that may not be appropriate, but The Crusher was my first death in my current D2 playthrough, and The Gorge was my first death in D2TWID. This wasn't a gimmick map like The Crusher, but it was the first that felt a bit like an adventure, which the Crusher did for me as well. I love how it opens up in the second section, it's a breath of fresh air after all the hallways and tighter spaces. Other great moments are the berserk pickup (gameplay) and the YK area (atmosphere). I missed the second secret and it felt like I bypassed some map areas as well, which I'm ok with. I'm trying to play without saves, and I didn't want to risk not finishing the map ~10 minutes in to go exploring. I'll probably come back to this one. So far this is my favorite D2TWID level (that's two in a row I've said that).

The only negative is that from pistol start the first half (first minute or two, really) is a heck of a lot harder than the second half, and it gets progressively easier as you play it. Kind of a backwards difficult curve, though it does make re-playing it from the start a bit quicker if you screw up. Kind of like the crusher, in fact, where the difficulty is all front loaded outside of that last trap.

catching up...

so i guess my main complaint with what i played of D1TWID and the idea was that a lot of the maps, if they felt like stuff from the original, felt like a John Romero-ized version of Sandy Petersen, etc. like because Petersen's style is a lot harder to pin down and Romero's is a lot more easy to break down and re-apply to what you're making in a flexible way. to me it kinda seemed silly to have this as a project when it's kind of an impossible presumption to say you could make something in the style of the originals when the style of the maps changes wildly over D1 and D2, even among designers. to put it another way, these map sets feel a bit more conservative and samey compared to what they're trying to emulate.

leaving that aside, though, i've come to understand these sets as being an approximate creative interpretation of the original style that focuses on core gameplay over detail. in that sense, i think it's a success and a lot of the maps do approximate a lot of what was interesting and good about the originals, even when the particular stylistic resemblances may be a bit of a stretch.

Map01 - "Loading Bay” by RottKing

architecturally i'm pretty into this map. i like the intro and exit rooms especially - a good use of interesting room shapes without going overboard. also some of the ways the map interconnected were nice. it's almost kind of a tricky layout for the first map, but i like it when the first maps have kind of a hook that pulls you into the rest of the set and this one definitely does.

Map02 - “The Compound” by Tarnsman

obvious Underhalls influence. some scenarios that reminded me of that level. the theming and lighting are accurate to the feel of early D2 levels and the layout is not bad - it just didn't stick out too much to me either. i took the exit to Hexsoil but i couldn't get through that map, so maybe i'll look at it later.

Map03 - “Water Main” by Esselfortium

also has some of the signposts of an early D2 map, though it feels a little bit like it's own thing architecturally and texture-wise (not that that's a bad thing). the ending area with the cacodemons was the highlight for me. it looks nice and it's a place you have to be pretty careful to pick off the hitscanners on the ledges without it being too challenging for a map this early in the set. it also probably conjures up the most good feelings in me of the original D1/D2 of any area in this level.

Map04 - “The Terminal” by Alfonzo

obvious "The Gantlet" influence at the beginning, with some areas also reminiscent of "The Focus". beginning wasn't doing much for me but i liked teleporting up into the greenish hitscanner trap hallway and then crossing the gap above the area i previously was to activate the switch that raised up the lift to the blue key. a nice little use of overlapping layouts there you don't see often. the end blue door area was definitely the highlight for me, once again. it's a good signpost to separate the first four maps from what's coming later, and it was a good point to introduce the SSG so that it lets you pull through and have fun without it being too tedious at all.

Map05 - "The Boiler” by Pavera

this is definitely my favorite of the first 5. i like the consistent theme and the map does a lot of clever things with the layout to make it work well as a whole. it's also surprisingly complex for the size of the map that i actually got lost in it a few times. not that that's a bad thing, at least not in my mind. maybe it was a bit too forcing of players to wander around in the lava potentially without a radiation suit. at the very least there i guess there was plenty of health around to deal with it and you never had to be in the lava for too long at a time. i liked the big chaingunner trap towards the end and i was able to make it through ok, but i didn't pistol start this one so take that for what it's worth.

i liked the exit leap to the yellow key area a lot - it was kind of pointless gameplay-wise, but it was done in a tongue-in-cheek way that i appreciated. i wouldn't say it does anything but add to the charm of the map, and it is really the kind of thing they did in the original D1/D2 from time to time. i can see the complaint is that people might not take the leap in the first place because they don't have the yellow key, but i sort of figured the level would put me on the right path and it did.

so far i guess the strongest thing i've noticed in these maps is an interesting and good use of overlapping layouts.

MAP06: The Gorge
100% kills | 2/2 secrets

Yup, this is definitely a D2 Romero map. Lots of height differences and areas for monsters to snipe at you from, and a progression that definitely feels a bit vaguely linear as you keep progressing through the map, and you only start going a certain way because it's the only way to go, even if you don't know what will be there. And it even managed to have that Doom II repetitive feeling ("another Cacodemon closet?")

I agree with 7hm that it has a backwards difficulty curve - even playing continuous, I died a couple times in the first half of the level, then proceeded to mop through the second half no problem. Probably because the first half is more open and has more flanking, high-up-on-ledges hitscanners, whereas the second part is more maze-y and linear.

Hmm, a bit surprised to see so many report a perilous experience in map 06, outside of the first 20 seconds of the pistol start I thought it had a very gentle touch from beginning to end, the least hazardous map since 03. Good to know the RNG gods apparently look favorably upon my offerings, I suppose...

Map 07 -- Counterpoint - 100% Kills / No secrets
Not a Dead Simple cl.....oh wait.

As Alfonzo has explained, map 07 is one of the few in the set that is more directly/intentionally analogous to its slot-brother (I'm totally patenting that term) in doom2.wad, and I suppose this was pretty much a given considering the hardcoded presence of the map-specific tags. So, naturally, it's a setup where you're introduced to both mancubi and arachnatrons for the first time, and you have to eliminate them all in order to clear the map. The big twist here is that this time the spiderbabies are saddled with some 'adult supervision'; leaving aside the predictable (and perhaps therefore unavoidably underwhelming) debuts of the fatsos and little spiders in this map, I quite appreciated the unexpected debut of the spider mastermind. Upon opening the first latch at the end of the vaguely ominous (and very Sandy-textured) initial hallway, you just catch a fleeting/shocking glimpse of it before you are suddenly teleported away by one of those disorienting bucking teleporter lines; a far more dignified introduction than the monster received in the IWAD, certainly.

Now, in practical terms this is probably a fair bit less dangerous than Dead Simple itself, as you are never really subject to the same kind of crossfire. Flashy introduction or no, as is so often the case in both the IWADs and PWADs past and present, the mastermind is not actually much of a relevant threat, as there's plenty of cover, plenty of weaponry, plenty of scope for a family feud, and as if all of that weren't enough, there's also a gratuitous/easily-found invulnerability artifact present. Despite the fact that the gameplay is kids' stuff, I think it's the cinematic aspect that makes the map (not out of keeping for a Sandy map, where enacting discrete concepts is often treated as an end rather than a means), and I can honestly say that I appreciated this more than I do 90% of the Dead Simple tributes out there in the wide world of PWADs. I suspect the issue is that so many of them seem to take the 'Simple' in the nomenclature as scripture, which curtails more involved or unusual setups; fortunately, in the world of D2TWiD, Dead Simple doesn't exist, and so that's not as much of an issue here.

The aesthetic? Well, I think it's naturally going to be a bit harder to nitpick the Sandymaps on concourse/presentation grounds than it has been/will be for the other authors' styles, but suffice to say the feel is there in this map. The somewhat schlocky opening shot screams Petersen, and, to borrow a term from KMX E XII, the 'OG Doom' flavor of most of the structural texturing drives the point home. The scale here continues to be rather expansive as in several of the earlier maps, but where Sandy is concerned I think this is much more liable to be a non-issue. I was considering saying something about the sharp, geometrically regular symmetry maybe being less reliable, buuuuutttt....there's the issue of the actual Dead Simple, the boss maps from the original game, etc. When I replayed the map before writing this I also poked around with IDDT and IDCLIP a bit on a hunch, and there is indeed technically a BFG on the map, a nice touch.

Another notch on Tarnsman's belt. As an overall experience Pavera's is my favorite map up to this point, but I think Tarnsman has been the most successful in his emulation of the id authors' styles so far.

Map07 - “Counterpoint” by Tarnsman

Interesting horse-shoe shaped take on the map07 theme, with unconventional angular structure. I found this quite deadly until I picked up the invisibility sphere, I was going to save it for the mastermind but then I noticed an invul and figured that would save the day later. So invisible me dances around picking up weapons while the monsters kill each other, and then invincible me hammers the mastermind and its game over. The initial difficulty is in figuring out the map, but once you know how it works and get past the initial barrage the invulnerability makes the finale a breeze. I guess its kind of fitting though with the boss of doom 1 making an appearance this early, to make mincemeat of him (much like The Crusher in doom2).

Doom 2 The Way ID Did- MAP 7: HMP, Continuous, Keyboard Only

I liked this map, it was pretty fun to play. I finally had my first death of the wad, the crossfire here is pretty tough if you avoid picking up that invisibility sphere, maybe I would have lived if I had found the invulnerability sphere before I took on the Spider Mastermind. As far as emulating Sandy goes this seems to be pretty good, though Sandy had such a varied style that I don't think I'm the best judge unless I really looked into it. So yeah Tarnsman seems to the one putting out the best stuff so far, though we'll see if it stays that way with the next map. On my original playthrough back when this first came out that is where I quit.

Slot: 7
Map: Counterpoint
Author: Richard Frei
Notes:
Dead Simple+. There are a few more monsters this time around, and having the spiders providing covering fire probably makes the map a bit harder despite the extra room to move around, but it's still that classic fight we all know and love. I died about as many times in this map as I did in my replay of Dead Simple, but completing the map took twice as long (you know, 4 minutes instead of 2). I recall this one being a breeze on continuous play, but the only real challenge with pistol start is going around collecting the weapons. The megasphere is really helpful in that regard, and I didn't even have to touch the mastermind this time, as the little spiders took her down for me. I enjoy Dead Simple maps for the most part when they're short and able to provide an interlude between the longer maps, while still retaining some level of challenge, which this one does well.

Y'aright, folks! Back with some more dev notes here. Reading all of your feedback and experiences playing the mapset so far is continuing to be a real blast - negatives and positives alike. Give us more!

Developer's Notes:

...
MAP05: The Boiler
I can't recall exactly when Pavera made this map - a short time before the end-stages of development would be my guess, give or take 4 months - but I do know that it was the one he spent the least amount of time on and could be his strongest effort, depending on whether or not you like Americans. Most of the changes that occurred after the initial version were tinkerings suggested by other contributors on IRC, who saw the map as a vital part in tying together the missing elements of E1's progression - the inclusion of the new monsters, for instance, or the balancing for a degree of difficulty that hadn't been reached yet. In addition, The Boiler became the project's secret poster child for SUPPORT3 as a structural texture, which is an oft-neglected facet of McGee's design that up until then had gone underappreciated by a few (though not all!) of the TWiD enthusiasts.

That's right Pavera, The Boiler was the map that fostered my love for SUPPORT3 floodfill. You little ripper!

Anyway, it's a killer map. The darkened lava corridors and modwall texturing evoke a deadly and claustrophobic sense of impending brutality, which is convenient, since the map loves to blanket the player with hitscanners from uncompromising positions. The scale, too, as some have mentioned, is pretty bang on for a McGee map, and with the general lack of sky and abundance of low ceiling heights satisfies the need for a more frenetic, "The Focus" style number.

...
MAP06: The Gorge
In case there are any folks still in the dark as to what Romero's chief principles of design are, or perhaps if they just haven't thought about what those might be in the first place, here's the low-down in a conveniently small, easy-to-digest sentence: Romero rips himself off. He's the master of taking the same ideas and reusing them over and over again, in different ways, so as to make each of his maps seem unique despite the fact. Nobody who contributed to the project understood this better than essel and Tarnsman, who between them (sans MAP11 by Pavera) managed to fill out the entirety of D2TWiD's Romero quota. I raise this point at first because, just as is the case with The Inmost Dens and The Abandoned Mines, for some, The Gorge is a map that might seem at thematic odds with the rest of E1, but which is entirely in keeping with the Romerian trend of what we might expect if a slot was opened up for him in this bracket. Not that I'd personally be fazed either way, as it happens, since the idea of a blood-drenched canyon of wood and metal saddled up beside a city's major starport strikes me as being completely sensible, but all the same...
It's observations of this kind that make the oddities of Doom and Doom 2 look even more charming and, dare I say it, more desirable to behold.

So what are the chief elements of design that are repeated in this map? Well, for the real details you'll have to ask one of the experts (I attempted a Romero map back during DTWiD's development but it didn't exactly come up trumps), though there are key points to make with the all-dominating central area, connecting layout, use of catwalks, texture combinations and so on. The map's fundamentals are very well realised in a Romerian way, and this is perhaps essel's greatest strength in emulating the great designer, which I suspect is partly down to the parallels between his and Romero's preference for angles and shape of architecture. Lots of little niches and secret detours add to that especially moody brand of adventure that comes with Romero maps, as well as discoveries that seem cater made to a player on his third or fourth run. As such, it was a map that grew on me during the countless testing phases before release, with some of my concerns over the size of the map and the lack of sufficienty arresting moments abating - if not entirely disappearing - on repeat playthroughs.

More Trivia: It was supposed to be named "The Costanza", for pete's sake. Essel clearly forgot to emulate Romero's penchant for stupidity when he was putting together the final touches on his map! For shame.

MAP07: Counterpoint
100% kills

Hmm, I admit, I didn't really have the most fun with this one. The angled crossfire hallways (as well as putting the arachnatrons up high) really do make for so threat, and it's an interesting use of a spiderdemon. That said... I don't think it does a good job of fitting into the 07 mapslot. It's certainly not as striking as the original Dead Simple, the manucbus/archnatron introduction and trigger don't feel as important, and the overall design (and especially the teleporter design) feel a bit advanced for 1994 id. The texturing is a good fit (especially the opening corridor, very Sandy) but I'm just not really feeling the rest of the level.

Also fuck the fatass mancubus that kept blocking the invuln sphere when I was trying this out on a pistol start.

Magnusblitz said:

Also fuck the fatass mancubus that kept blocking the invuln sphere when I was trying this out on a pistol start.

Oh man, that was pissing me to no end. So it had to stay, of course, haha.

It's the 8th here, and I'm not sure what my schedule looks like for tomorrow, so...

Slot: 8
Map: Quarantine
Author: Chris Bourke, Richard Frei
Notes:
Definitely feeling the Tom Hall / Sandy Peterson combo in this map. Wonky texturing and colour selection, big rooms and hallways, but some interesting fights. I died a few times while first starting out, but once I figured out a decent route at the start, I made it through without too many problems. I liked the chaingunner ambushes (the only one that wasn't an obvious trap was the first one, and maybe that corner lowering after you get the blue key and hit the switch), and the crusher was kind of funny, if obvious. The maze was weird and out of place but again, Tom / Sandy. As a negative - I don't care if D2 did it, not putting teleporter pads in pits is shitty, and takes away from the quality of the mapset.

On an unrelated note, fuck Tricks and Traps. I used saves on my first run through it a couple years ago, and this was my first attempt at beating it legit. Those dropping platforms after the red key... arg.

Just dropping in to say that I'm enjoying reading this thread, even if I'm not playing the wad. Especially Alfonzo's behind-the-scene's commentary, and DotW's thorough dissections of author styles.