[RELEASE] Plutonia 1024

This probably might be nothing related to the thread but, how do you make these small "1024" maps?

mmm 1024...

well i always have troubles making smaller maps, i think im going to make a map for this because i always take this as challenge to make smaller maps since my maps always are bigger.

i just hope i just make in time to get a single slot since im thinking how to make this map and probably the monsters im going to use, hope this time i get feedback to make the needed tweaks hehe x)

so as long the playable field is 1024x1024 its okay right? i can use out of those limits for structures and monster stuff right?

so far this what i have for now: http://i.imgur.com/LenlvJp.png

Here it is

Name: Misadventure Island (working on a better name and if people want to change the location)
Music: Hover! Level 1
Slot: Map01
Screenshots:
http://i.imgur.com/qGV9t4O.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZRgwRNk.png

Download:
https://www.mediafire.com/?ehs4ueicahpml1q

My first 1024 map, waiting for feedback

Hey guys, been mapping for doom for a while now but never really took part in the doomworld community, so I figured why not start here. Put together a little map for the wad over the past couple days. Anyways here's my map, still subject to change and feel free to give me some criticism or suggestions.

Name: Pitfall

Download: https://mega.co.nz/#!3gw1FRpI!VqA4Gj24PSJKkTUTmDuu0JZ0X_lPwpup4VUpAWeIjCY

Pics:






It's a bit more on the minimalist side since I prefer to map for ultimate doom, so it might be best if its used as one of the first 5 maps in the wad ( there's only 25 monsters on ultra violent ).

@Count651: Whilst it's always good to see new mappers, you're going to need to familiarise yourself with what makes Plutonia what it is, as I can tell from those screenshots you currently don't have it worked out.

@gothic
Just played your map, it had the plutonia feel and all. Just some of the monsters don't work out, for example : That demon pit could be filled with some mancubi or other monsters, the hell knight in the secret should be replaced with a weak monster, the PE should be replaced with a regular cacodemon since you can just get into it's face and block the souls.

NoneeLlama
Nice looking map, however it feels kind of easy even if it was placed as one of the first maps. There's an overabundance of items, especially ammo (HP is understandable because of the AV jump). The Archvile trap feels rather non-threating even though there's 2 of them. Personally, I would get rid of the ambush flag and make the one Archvile teleport in the area where player is. Some more monsters by the red key for the 2nd Archvile to resurrect would help too, I think. In the current state by far the biggest challenge is making the Archvile jump I failed terribly at more times that I'm willing to admit :P


Inkie

Seems like a nice and simple map to me. I'll let others comment on what could be improved because the only thing I can think of is the lava texture. Not sure myself but I think it might not be used in the whole Plutonia anywhere. I guess blood would work best as the damaging floor texture for Plutonia-style purposes.

Phobus

The beginning is way too hectic. Plutonia maps don't overwhelm you right at the start, making you die 20 times before you find that one somewhat safe place from where you can then slowly progress, that would be Hell Revealed :) Plutonia does have a few maps with hectic starts but none of them is "where the fuck am I supposed to go to survive for more than 3 seconds?".

Phobus map on first try...

Memfis said:

Phobus map on first try...

Heh, Memfis completely humiliating with his skills :D

I still stand behind my words that if the project is supposed to imitate the Plutonia gameplay as well, this style is something that came only after Plutonia. I made the remarks influenced by 40oz's advices to 1st version of joe-ilya's map :\

I have to admit, I toned the start down 3 times before uploading it for others to test and I still struggle to survive it. I think I've got the right ideas for the game play, but got the player starting in the wrong place. The idea would work much better in a 2048 space, or unrestricted. Depending on what others think, I may try reworking the map or having a second go at using the ideas. I'll have to check Memfis' demo after work, but I'm keen to see how somebody other than me tackles it.

fuck, i'm behind.

Lazarev Island

much like a lot of your maps, i can find quite a few design quibbles, such as some misalignments or the blood floor on the same level as the water. gameplay is much more balanced though, especially given a soulsphere and armor right from the start, and easy combat up to a point (dealing with an archie with a shotgun/chaingun) so that's a plus. didn't find any secrets though.

Tenochtitlan

okay design. hardest part was finding ammo and space to tickle the mancubus to death whilst avoiding revenants. but the rest of the level i was pretty good on ammo, and health too. it's kinda grinding without an SSG. also there's no archies in the map. i really hate how you can't leave the exit room once you enter it as well. pretty easy but grinding map.

Midnight (MAP12)

another bit of simple design, but this one was quite fun with a given SSG and the start. the backtracking didn't really hurt that much given the space limits. the two archie/two caco fight was most interesting (I assume you have to archvile jump to get the megasphere?) and the definitive highlight. i really liked this one.

Artifice

i like how you implemented chainsaw gameplay, but as Keyboard_Doomer says, it doesn't feel like Plutonia. given my natural slowness, it was also quite easy. again, didn't find any secrets.

Constant Motion (oh god, it looks like we have competition for MAP12)

i am so jealous of you right now, this was great. those window monsters, like the imps behind the firewalls, provided the ample distraction while i tried to chip cybie's health away through various means. when i figured out the soulsphere secret, it was easier though. the chaingunners were real jerks too.

Misadventure Island

yeah, it's pretty Plutonia-like, and i actually like the thing placement here, although it took me awhile to hit the switch for the rocket launcher secret. i have to agree with joe that the pain elemental is useless since some people will just punch its face. i guess the hardest part was dealing with the imps and revenants on the other island, while avoiding others, but it's a cool challenge. not a fan of the music though.

I have a better name for my map, it should be called "Mt. Lazarev" instead.

Breezeep said:

This probably might be nothing related to the thread but, how do you make these small "1024" maps?

1024 maps at its most basic definition is a map that is confined to fit inside of a 1024x1024 map unit sized square. However, it is acceptable to draw sectors outside or exceeding the space of the 1024x1024 sized square so long as they are inaccessible to the player (like exclusively for decoration, monster closets, control sectors for effects, etc.)

In general I usually draw a 1024x1024 square set on a 512x512 grid to begin with so I can gauge the size of my workable area, then delete it. Then use the ] and [ keys as im mapping to change the grid size so I can see if my map is still within the size. I don't know if there are easier or more accurate ways to do it, but that's what I do.

Z0k said:

i just hope i just make in time to get a single slot since im thinking how to make this map and probably the monsters im going to use, hope this time i get feedback to make the needed tweaks hehe x)

so as long the playable field is 1024x1024 its okay right? i can use out of those limits for structures and monster stuff right?

so far this what i have for now: http://i.imgur.com/LenlvJp.png

Yes that's correct, and your map looks great! Just stick around and make updates to your map as playtesters review it and you should be fine :)

Phobus said:

@Count651: Whilst it's always good to see new mappers, you're going to need to familiarise yourself with what makes Plutonia what it is, as I can tell from those screenshots you currently don't have it worked out.

Easy Phobus, FDTWiD is in another thread. The Plutonia theme is a bit more flexible here given the circumstances. Please be optimistic, constructive, and precise. Would you like to be a playtester?

Playtesters

Along with your reviews, please specify the changes you believe are imperative in order to finalize the map, also be sure to mention if you would or would not "OK" it for the final release in its current state. Meaning that even any minor bugs, minutiae, hairs to split you find with the map are or are not worth scrapping the map.

Mappers

It's important that you check the #'s on the OP next to your map on the maplist! These are links to reviews of your map, and it's important that you respond to them with questions or with an updated version of your map. If not, your map(s) may possibly be omitted from the final release!!

We want to help you do the best you can do, and please contact me via PM if you feel your review is unjustified. If you are unable to continue working on your map (or lost interested), you may pass your map along to another member of this thread by posting here, or I may appoint someone to do it for you with your permission.

Everyone has been fantastic so far, keep it up!

OP is up to date I believe.

Hey guys, been workin on the map some more and reworking some of the architecture and working with more plutonia textures.

Here's some screenshots of a room from my above post but remade to be more plutonia-esque.

40oz said:

Easy Phobus, FDTWiD is in another thread. The Plutonia theme is a bit more flexible here given the circumstances. Please be optimistic, constructive, and precise. Would you like to be a playtester?

Sorry if it sounded like I was dumping on him - I was more trying to point out that Plutonia is bricks, wood, metal and fluids populated by Chaingunners, Revenants and heavy hitters and that he can pick that up easily with a quick look at the IWAD maps.

As for playtesting - I'm nowhere near as good for that as hawkwind or dew would be, but I'll give everything a play through as it comes in and offer my observations. I tend to think of myself as a mapper before anything else.

No offense taken, phobus. I kinda realize my map looked nothing like a plutonia map.

Taking note of what joe and Getsu said, PE replaced with a cacodemon, and the later caco replaced with a knight, the knight fron the RL secret replaced with another caco and the demon pit has 2 arachnotrons on UV.
Also a few other touches to the map, and the name changed to "Confinement Point".

Download:
https://www.mediafire.com/?ehs4ueicahpml1q

Bloodlust

oh man, that chaingunner wall. i think you went a bit overboard there with the placement of these guys. otherwise, i think combat is pretty good with more than enough ammo. plus there's some use of damaging floors (i thought that teleporting right on damaging blood was kind of a dick move, however). decent design too. i could be wrong, but it's probably possible to get the archies to jump you to the exit as well. i'd say remove some chaingunners to make UV challenging but not overly annoying. also, mark linedef 248 with a switch texture so i don't get confooz'd. other than that, cool.

Archipelago

well combat hasn't really changed much. a few new tidbits, like the switch where the archie was is now a ceiling switch, plus a new embankment where the mancubus was. look what i found sitting in the sky though. also there's a misaligned MIDBRONZ fence in that courtyard too.i think if you could fix these errors, i'd give it the OK

Pitfall

you might wanna fix the filename, as 40oz said in the description that the WAD file be named "pl1024-yourname.wad

actually, i think i'll hold off until you're done retexturing, the WAD you already have up for download looks nothing like it should be for the project.

i think that's everyone so far. and now, my opinion on what's gonna get the OK's

Archipelago        -fix the bugs stated above then it's OK
Archi's map        -OK
Rook's map         -i'd make it a tad easier for it to be OK, unless someone else makes a better MAP07
Phml's map         -OK
Mt. Lazarev        -fix the obvious, then it's OK i guess
Artifice           -not sure
Constant Motion    -OK
Midnight           -OK (move it to another slot though, I think Jimmy wants MAP12)
Technotitlan       -not OK, i'd recommend allowing me to leave the exit room in case i forget something.
Bloodlust          -as stated above
Misadventure Island-gothic released a new version, i'll get to it later
Pitfall            -will get to it later.

and [ keys as im mapping to change the grid size so I can see if my map is still within the size. I don't know if there are easier or more accurate ways to do it, but that's what I do.

I've never used it, but there's a Grid Setup window in DB2 in which you can specify a background image. Apparently it repeats the image like a wallpaper so you can't just make a 1024x1024 pixel square and be done with it, but you could make a 1024x1024 square inside a 2048x2048 frame picture and I assume it'd work nicely.

Although I suppose this would start to break down as you use space outside the 1024 square to add detail or monster platforms...

Another idea, leave a random 1024x1024 sector out of the map, and whenever you want to check the playable area is still within limits, hover that dummy sector over the map (without letting go the mouse, obviously) and compare the outer bounds.

i played jimmy's map and it was rad so here's a 18 second uv-speed vod http://www.twitch.tv/jmickle_/c/4669512

Count651

I liked it! The chaingunner usage is pretty brutal and fun! I did encounter some bugs though. The face of the Blue keycard Door is switch operated, instead of set as a Blue Door, which means without giving the line a sector tag, it doesn't do anything. It may have worked if you played it in a source port like ZDoom or Zandronum, but in Boom the door does nothing when operated and thus breaks the map by withholding my ability to progress further. Also the floor in the Octagon of Death part refused to go up the first time I played the map, but every other time I played it worked fine. I'm not sure why exactly, but I'll have to look at it some more to see if there's a fail-safe solution to that.

The texture theme is a bit wild, as it transitions from a nice clean UAC office, to a sewer, to a torture chamber, to a cave, to a stretched skin opening to hell, all in a map that takes less than 3 minutes to beat. I'd probably suggest taking the BSTONE2 texture theme you have for the Octagon of Death room and extend it all the way to the beginning of the map (with other similar tan brick textures and wooden trim) You could also maybe try a BRONZE + METAL2 theme with some Gray bricks in between like in MAP04: Caged. whichever you're more comfortable with. (Having just now looked at your new screenshots, you look like you know what you're doing :))

You could probably use height variation to your advantage in this map too. For example, if you were to bump the ceilings up in the shotgun room another 128 units or even 256 (while leaving the ceiling light above the shotgun at the same height), it will help in making your map feel bigger than it really is. I think showing off some sky with open ceilings in the Octagon of Death, and maybe some windows to the outside, or skylights in other parts, it might reduce the feeling of claustrophobia in such a small map.

On a gameplay note, I liked it for the most part. I think the nukage dropoff was a little rough though. It took me about 7 or 8 tries to get through it without taking any damage. I think changing the shotgun guys to imps, or even Pinky Demons may be more appropriate for that part than shotgun guys.

The cacodemons in the trap near the starting room were pretty easy, so I tried the map after changing the cacos to revenants and it still wasn't very hard. It might simply have to do with the position their in, it's very easy to get away from them, and hard for them to get out. You could possible change that trap so the door is along the inner corners of the shotgun room so they are immediately presented with a wide area to move in, making it much more hectic for the player than for the monsters. Alternatively, since there's plenty corners to hide behind, you could maybe turn the trap door that happens when you get the shotgun to a lone chaingun guy that gets infinitely resurrected by an archvile >:D (With maybe a secret that lets you kill the archvile.)

I think you may be better off scrapping the area that you teleport to directly after the blue door. It seems like needless filler. You could use that space to extend the starting area a little longer. You could perhaps put a barred gate in front of the nukage pit and direct the tunnel into a decent sized room where that room is now, with a switch that opens those bars, followed by a little trap.

I don't think I have any other suggestions at this time. I'm thrilled to see that your submitting your first map ever to this community project, I hope you have a lot of fun with it, and I'm excited to see what else you come up with!

Phobus

Haha! Intense! What's the intended gameplay situation here? I'll have to look at Memfis' demo. So far I've had the most luck keeping quiet until I get the rocket launcher, and just hitting all those chaingun snipers right away.

For obvious reasons, you might want to try replacing a couple chaingunners with teleport destinations and warping them in later, (at least for easier difficulty levels) Also probably try keeping that 6 window chaingunner ambush closed until after you hit the first switch. The rest of the map is much easier than the initial chaingun gangbang. I like it though My suggestion is probably expanding the wall next to the revenant (Sector 34), maybe molding it into the shape of a wood pillar or something, and moving the medikit from near the switch (Thing 75) on top of it. When the player hits the switch the health kit will come down; use the lines from that wall/pillar as a walkover switch to open up the 6 windows when the player goes for the health.

Other than that I think I'd be ready to OK it.

NoneeLlama, gothic, Inkie

Great maps, honestly can't think of anything I'd change at the moment.

@Memfis: Seen your demo now - looks like you had mixed luck at the start, as the AV got a good hit on you out of the blue, but the chaingunners didn't get too many on you. Do you think it's worth changing that? Making it a bit less intense to begin with? I'm still tempted to do a second draft... Probably this weekend when there's more time to do it in one sitting.

Ok, here's some more first impressions on the maps:

Count651:
Heh, that reminds me of my first maps, with the load of little areas that have little-to-nothing in common linked up with teleporters. The enemies are remarkably lethal in those tight confines with the limited weaponry - it feels Plutonia-hard, even with the enemies used. I think the major thing is the retexturing - your screenshots look a lot more like it, which is good :)

Gothic:
Very intricate for the size - a bit cramped, perhaps, but it plays pretty well and looks very good!

Inkie:
Seemed quite forgiving on the outset, but the low health supplies reign the player in a bit, which works well, IMO. I don't think it felt particularly Plutonia in terms of looks, but it does feel remarkably open and multi-level, which is right on the money.

NoneeLlama:
Looks exactly like a 1024 Plutonia map, IMO, and fills the space like I'd imagine one would too, with a few more open spaces, a bit of non-linearity and almost everything being visible before you get to it. I think the map might play a bit tame for what I think of as Plutonia, but it certainly doesn't feel under-populated.

Never done a 1024 map, or a Plutonia themed one. Enjoy. :)
Edit: fixed file name, level name is Ascent.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb202/CaptainToenailSkulltag/Screenshot_Doom_20140715_193146_zpsac3f4fdb.png
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8gbej64vcvoiblc/pl1024-CaptainToenail.wad

Keyboard_Doomer said:

NoneeLlama
Nice looking map, however it feels kind of easy even if it was placed as one of the first maps. There's an overabundance of items, especially ammo (HP is understandable because of the AV jump). The Archvile trap feels rather non-threating even though there's 2 of them. Personally, I would get rid of the ambush flag and make the one Archvile teleport in the area where player is. Some more monsters by the red key for the 2nd Archvile to resurrect would help too, I think. In the current state by far the biggest challenge is making the Archvile jump I failed terribly at more times that I'm willing to admit :P

I think the ammo overabundance can be set off with a couple of more teleporting monsters (like a revenant teleporting in after you pick up the red key). I just wanted to make sure that the player doesn't run out of ammo (wich I ran into while testing in the early stages of the map).
The archvile jump is something that I could only achive once, and even then it wasn't intentional, but that gave me the idea to put a megasphere (and a backback, wich I might remove) there, so the map will have at least one secret (wich I thought I have to leave out because of inadequate amount space).

Thanks for the C&C, guys! I'll give some of your suggestions a try, 40oz.

40oz said:

Phobus

Haha! Intense! What's the intended gameplay situation here? I'll have to look at Memfis' demo. So far I've had the most luck keeping quiet until I get the rocket launcher, and just hitting all those chaingun snipers right away.

For obvious reasons, you might want to try replacing a couple chaingunners with teleport destinations and warping them in later, (at least for easier difficulty levels) Also probably try keeping that 6 window chaingunner ambush closed until after you hit the first switch. The rest of the map is much easier than the initial chaingun gangbang. I like it though My suggestion is probably expanding the wall next to the revenant (Sector 34), maybe molding it into the shape of a wood pillar or something, and moving the medikit from near the switch (Thing 75) on top of it. When the player hits the switch the health kit will come down; use the lines from that wall/pillar as a walkover switch to open up the 6 windows when the player goes for the health.

Other than that I think I'd be ready to OK it.

I have to admit, I didn't have a plan with the chaingunner wall - it was just an idea that felt like it needed to be in the map. I think your suggestion on how to use it will balance the intensity of the map a bit and still make them lethal though, so I'll give that a go. I beat it by getting my SSG shot through the shotgunner to kill the Imp by the rocket launcher as well, grab that and then try to luck out with what shoots me the least whilst using the wooden beams for cover and trying to kill off all the chaingunners. A clusterfuck, basically ;)

I'll have to look in the editor to see what you mean on the second suggestion, but I think I know what you're talking about... Might make the health a bit pointless if the player is exposed to all that damage straight away. Perhaps a bigger pickup, like a soul sphere?

Thank you to those people who have reviewed my map - it's tremendously helpful. I'd have responded earlier, but unfortunately I'm not well at the moment.

I feel like I'm in a bit of a quandary because I can see a lot of sense in both of the two main suggestions I've received (i.e. make the map a bit easier on the one hand, and extend it into an invasion-style map on the other) but I feel there's a bit of tension between them.

What I plan to do is to have a go at adding the invasion element when I'm feeling better, trying to be careful to have something which maybe ramps up gradually rather than being hell-for-leather from get-go, as the map is now. I will post a second version when I can.

Any more thoughts and suggestions (especially about difficulty) would be great. Also, I think I'll call the map "Green Destiny", unless I can think of something better.

Captain Toenail:
Great layout! The map feels huge, considering how little space is used. I think the going is pretty smooth up until that Cyberdemon, which I stupidly beat with corner-camping when there was obviously going to be a teleporter to kill it with... After that, things maybe got a little too tight, with a couple of traps that were basically instant kills unless you ran just before things happen. It's a good map that definitely does the part well enough, IMO.

Cool, thanks Phobus. Planning on testing some of the other maps in depth in the next few days. I'll see what I can do about the end section to make it more playable.