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nicolas monti

Favillesco Alpha Episode 2: Desecration on Thebe

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E3M5 red key Baron trap was another obnoxious fun-killer, even worse than the other ones, because it relies on 1) having the BFG in inventory, 2) having it already selected, and 3) preferably firing it before the trap activates = preknowledge. On the other hand, I liked the way how one secret had to be accessed by shooting a switch from a position where you can't see it, but you can see it from other positions where you cannot shoot it, so that you need to use your brain to find out the right place and angle.

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scifista42 said:

I still find the toned-down E3M2 (BK) and E3M4 (BK+exit) traps to be incomparably more zealous than the rest of the maps, which I don't consider a good thing at all. The mere fact that you're suddenly squeezed among monsters in a horribly small room, literally touching their bodies, and need a powerful rapid-fire weapon prepared at that moment (as switching weapons is too slow), is pretty obnoxious.

The E3M4 BK room has a double-switch wall.

I know the difficulty peaks, but it's safe gameplay for me at least, I've watched Tarnsman playing the first version (the hard one) on twitch and he managed well too.

That double switch is on purpose, believe it or not :p

scifista42 said:

E3M5 red key Baron trap was another obnoxious fun-killer, even worse than the other ones, because it relies on 1) having the BFG in inventory, 2) having it already selected, and 3) preferably firing it before the trap activates = preknowledge. On the other hand, I liked the way how one secret had to be accessed by shooting a switch from a position where you can't see it, but you can see it from other positions where you cannot shoot it, so that you need to use your brain to find out the right place and angle.

I've toned that down, you may think the change is insignificant but it gives you the time to change your weapon and as the baron's position is farther from the player they don't attack immediatly giving you extra time to dodge or even take cover behind one of them. I've tested it many times with 50% of health and remember that adjacent blue armor (that means you can take a couple of shots from the barons without dying).
I don't agree with "if I don't have the BFG" because that weapon is located on a previous area, not far from the beginning and fairly visible from windows too. Anyway I know you won't agree :)
The same goes for the plasmagun almost mandatory for the E3M4 trap. Tt is a obvious visible item in the way of that map, I don't know what to think about people who could miss that.

Thanks for pointing out the secrets, I've tried to employ more variety in the way you access the secrets, In the Favillesco E1 and E2 some of them were quite obvious.

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E3M6 - Backpack secret (the one next to small blue door) has 2 sectors flagged as secret.

By the way, the blue key trap in this map had an OK difficulty when compared to standard combat in this map - it was an "acceptable betray". I hardly understand how you can still underestimate the frustration from traps like those in M2/M4/M5, but sorry, I'll better not repeat this anymore.

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nicolas monti said:

several graphic files are duplicated because I've used resources of two alpha versions, 0.4 and 0.5 which have some patches and textures in common and some specific to one of each, I wanted to have all the textures available while I didn't want to mess up the files so yes, some textures are repeated.

I haven't had time to play this yet, but I thought I remembered something about the alphas, so I opened this in a editor to check. First, I got the warning about 446 duplicated textures and flats. Some are in there 3 times.

I was right. The alphas replaced some graphics between versions, but kept the same names. WALL03_5 and FLAT21 are in there twice, and each one is a different graphic. There are probably more. I don't know how different ports handle multiple graphics with the same name; whether they use the first instance or the last instance. But different people may have different playing experiences because of it. When you clean that up, make sure you know which graphic you wanted to keep.

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EffinghamHuffnagel said:

I don't know how different ports handle multiple graphics with the same name; whether they use the first instance or the last instance.

All ports I know of use the last instance of the graphic (or whatever lump type) with a duplicate name.

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E3M7 had 2 more bullshit Baron traps: One completely bullshit, surprise attack one. And one slightly less bullshit, where you descend into a room of Barons looking away from you, which is however still way too unforgiving and requires having BFG.

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I haven't gotten very far yet, but I have an error to report:

[E3M1] I was able to grab the yellow key-card from behind the "desks" without lowering the one on which it rests. ...Thus making the switch(and a few of our closet-dwelling friends) redundant.

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scifista42 said:

E3M6 - Backpack secret (the one next to small blue door) has 2 sectors flagged as secret.

Fixed, thanks for pointing that out, one of the noobiest mistakes lol. That happended when I drew that linedef a month later to activate part of the secret exit. this is why a map has to be done in one piece, one forgets as time goes on.

EffinghamHuffnagel said:

I haven't had time to play this yet, but I thought I remembered something about the alphas, so I opened this in a editor to check. First, I got the warning about 446 duplicated textures and flats. Some are in there 3 times.

I was right. The alphas replaced some graphics between versions, but kept the same names. WALL03_5 and FLAT21 are in there twice, and each one is a different graphic. There are probably more. I don't know how different ports handle multiple graphics with the same name; whether they use the first instance or the last instance. But different people may have different playing experiences because of it. When you clean that up, make sure you know which graphic you wanted to keep.

Every port shows the same graphics as scifista42 said above. In some instances the name remains and the graphic changes but the reverse situation is frequent too so I didn't want to mess up the textures. Cleaning up the patches while keeping the textures intact just to save 2 mb would demand an unnecessary amount of work at this point.

scifista42 said:

E3M7 had 2 more bullshit Baron traps: One completely bullshit, surprise attack one. And one slightly less bullshit, where you descend into a room of Barons looking away from you, which is however still way too unforgiving and requires having BFG.

I did some changes on the more "bullshit". Now you are equipped with a blue armor and the room is a bit larger to maneuvre more freely and to have more time to react too, I've tested it several times from a chaingun to see if an unaware player was able to see what was happening and load the BFG.
About the BFG (sorry for starting with "about" everytime but I don't know how to start this kind of sentence another way), it is on the map as a normal item, if it's the fist time for a player from pistol start and he dies on that trap because of not having the BFG he should try to look for that weapon when reloading, I don't think I have to guarrantee success on every occassion, the player must to look for alternative paths.

Olroda said:

I haven't gotten very far yet, but I have an error to report:

[E3M1] I was able to grab the yellow key-card from behind the "desks" without lowering the one on which it rests. ...Thus making the switch(and a few of our closet-dwelling friends) redundant.

Fixed that one by expanding the desk by 8 units, now you can't grab it unless you press that switch. Thanks man, that mistake was kind of lame, I was more focused on preventing the player from grabbing it from the other side I guess.

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I found another error, on E3M2, fairly close to the acid vats and the red key.



It is possible to get stuck down there when running back from the chainsaw secret (if I recall correctly). The lift jams at the bottom.

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Olroda said:

I found another error, on E3M2, fairly close to the acid vats and the red key.



It is possible to get stuck down there when running back from the chainsaw secret (if I recall correctly). The lift jams at the bottom.

You're right, action 82: "WR floor lower to lowest floor" compromising that lift when reaching that secret, I'll wait for some more possible bugs and then I'll upload a fixed version, Thanks!

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All right, I've played a lot more DoT, and here are some thoughts.

I got to Ghost Station before I met an untimely end, which featured a corner and a rocket launcher (I blame fatigue, as it was late. Also, I haven't gotten any further yet). Fortunately, I encountered no more gamebreaking errors, such as the stuck elevator on E3M2, but starting from the dark end of Main Circuitry and continuing on (the start of E3M4 is a blatant example), there's lots of "furniture inconsistency" to be had. What do I mean by that, then?

Well, some of the shelves, tables and computer consoles are climbable, and some not, in a fairly arbitrary fashion. Obviously, this isn't a huge problem, but I noticed it nonetheless.

Now on to other stuff besides 'bugs', beginning with what I liked:

-I really like your mapping style. It's abstract, but it still looks like an actual place. The furniture really helps here; shelves, beds, couches, tables, and so on.

-Pistol gameplay. While others may despise this, I sure don't. It's quite effective against former humans and imps, and in your WADs, as in the original Doom, there are plenty of those waiting to be shot. Also, it makes getting a weapon upgrade so much sweeter.

-The maps are loaded with enemies, gunning for you from every alcove (which may often be from odd angles). The good use of vertical space creates a very hostile enviroment. Rushing around blindly isn't something I'd recommend!


And now, some things which I didn't care for:

-The maps are loaded with enemies from top to bottom. With few exceptions, there aren't any calm periods in the maps. Certainly won't spoil any fun, but I enjoy the calm moments before the storm, when you wonder where the next ambush will come from.

-Some maps are perhaps a bit too bright for my liking. This can create a bland look. If I'm not mistaken, Amalthea's Apostasy was more conservative with the light levels, even though Amalthea had an atmosphere (blue sky)! Wouldn't poor Thebe's excuse for an atmosphere (a space sky filled with stars, which looks great, by the way. Did you make it yourself?) make it pretty dark outside?

-Finally, about the key ambushes... I remember having a discussion with you last time, which resulted in me getting some much-needed experience in the fine art of close quarters plasmagun combat.
DoT didn't disappoint as there are quite a few of these difficulty spikes here as well.
Still, I agree with Scifista in that they don't add much. They are predictable after a while, and I'll mantain that luck is quite a large factor in beating them, at least for first-time encounters. Which isn't a good thing. I'd rather have less difficult (but still dangerous) ambushes scattered here and there when the player *doesn't* expect it.

I had a blast playing DoT, though, and as I wrote earlier, I haven't finished the mapset yet. So I suspect that more fun awaits. Cheers!

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First off, I wish to congratulate you for a well-deserved Cacoward for "Anger".

I thoroughly enjoyed that one, even though it lacked your signature murder closets. It may sound strange after all the negative comments I made about them, but knowing that one is bound to appear apparently makes for a lot of tension (not to mention a sigh of relief if you get out in one piece!), which is a very good thing.

Still, Erkattäññe had another challenge to it, and it shows that even the "easier" monsters can be used to deadly effect without resorting to the heavy-handed slaughter-type technique which currently seems so popular. It sure was uglier than your previous episodes, but since it is DooM II inspired, it is quite apt.

There is an eerie quality to to your levels which I find very appealing. I think it has to do with the layouts, the lighting and the music choices. In any case, Erkattäññe sure had it too. I had been meaning to comment much earlier, but time is scarce these days, unfortunately. If it isn't work that gets in the way, it's my yet to be released Alpha/E1/Marathon-inspired D1 episode. ...Which moves forward at glacial speed.

At least, I can look forward to playing your new megawad (quite surprising that you released another one so soon!), Mano Laikas. I'll see if I can't hunt for some bugs over the next week, or so.

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Olroda said:

First off, I wish to congratulate you for a well-deserved Cacoward for "Anger".

I thoroughly enjoyed that one, even though it lacked your signature murder closets. It may sound strange after all the negative comments I made about them, but knowing that one is bound to appear apparently makes for a lot of tension (not to mention a sigh of relief if you get out in one piece!), which is a very good thing.

Still, Erkattäññe had another challenge to it, and it shows that even the "easier" monsters can be used to deadly effect without resorting to the heavy-handed slaughter-type technique which currently seems so popular. It sure was uglier than your previous episodes, but since it is DooM II inspired, it is quite apt.

There is an eerie quality to to your levels which I find very appealing. I think it has to do with the layouts, the lighting and the music choices. In any case, Erkattäññe sure had it too. I had been meaning to comment much earlier, but time is scarce these days, unfortunately. If it isn't work that gets in the way, it's my yet to be released Alpha/E1/Marathon-inspired D1 episode. ...Which moves forward at glacial speed.

At least, I can look forward to playing your new megawad (quite surprising that you released another one so soon!), Mano Laikas. I'll see if I can't hunt for some bugs over the next week, or so.

So you're working on an Alpha/E1/Marathon-inspired D1 episode, that sounds epic, because it's never been done and marathon deserves more attention. You sure have played dark forces, I'm not specifically a fan of the star wars franchise, but I find those levels very interesting, those intrincate layouts and height differences. Don't think of how many levels remain to be made, just focus in your "present" level, and when finished go for the next one, I make all the layouts and then I fill the maps with "things", that's how I work, in phases. Mapping is time consuming, time we sacrifice from our "real" lives. But I think it is worth it. So good luck with your episode and looking forward to play it!

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Thanks for the advise and the kind words; I'll be sure to take them to heart. I know full well how easy it is to be bogged down by placing things instead of pushing through with the general layout.

I had to look up Dark Forces since I hadn't played it since the last millenium, but I agree - there is something inspirational in that architecture, even though it is very simple. Many times, less is often "more", and I think it is true in this case, just as it is in DooM. However, at this point I'm not sure where my WAD will end up, aesthetically. My general idea is to keep it close in style to the original games, but then there are aspects where I feel that some extra elaborations wouldn't detract from the experience.

Finally, mapping sure takes time, but it's a fun hobby, and once you're done with a map it stays that way. No maintenance required!

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