Thoughts about the Jaguar Doom levelset

I've been thinking that Jaguar Doom is basically Doom 2-ized Doom 1 levels. I say this because they serve the same purpose as Doom 2 (commercial instead of mail-order), because it uses Doom 2 or Doom 2-like textures, because they made the levels less cramped (widening hallways, making rooms taller), and because they were simplified (I know this was probably done for cart space, but I'd imagine gameplay reasons too).

Doom 1's levels work much better for a slower game, which it originally was. Especially Tom's levels. Think about it, they were so big and elaborate, so many rooms to check out and a lot to do. I don't think it's coincidence that these levels were the ones that were simplified the most in Jaguar Doom. They probably wanted to speed up the gameplay.

What do you think about this?

I think you need to STFU

Mr. T said:

I think you need to STFU

That doesn't exactly contribute to the thread. Still, the thread title probably needs to be better, so I'll change it.

I like the new texture work on Mt. Erebus :)

Sodaholic said:

they made the levels less cramped (widening hallways, making rooms taller)

Can you give an example? As I remember the geometry wasn't changed much other than a few rooms being removed (e.g. the red key room in E1M6, the crusher corridor in E2M2.)

If the remade Jaguar levels resemble Doom 2 as you say (I don't really see it) it's by coincidence not design. All the changes were made for technical not gameplay/aesthetic reasons.

Another Doom 2-ism is that it has a MAPxx structure instead of ExMx.

finnw said:

Can you give an example?

Just look around, you'll find that many rooms were given taller heights, some doorways and halls were widened slightly. This has no effect on the performance (in fact, may decrease it slightly), so this is certainly a gameplay/aesthetic choice.

purist said:

If the remade Jaguar levels resemble Doom 2 as you say (I don't really see it) it's by coincidence not design. All the changes were made for technical not gameplay/aesthetic reasons.

I understand that the primary reason for the edits were technical, but it was still an opportunity to change the gameplay/appearance. Note how several levels (E2M7 in particular) have their appearances totally altered. It is no longer a techbase, but rather is a hellish level.

There were also layout changes that had nothing to do with performance, such as E1M4's maze. The added a whole area in the back to make it easier to navigate the maze.

Who's to say the gameplay changes weren't done as a combination of technical/design reasons?

Sodaholic said:

I've been thinking that Jaguar Doom is basically Doom 2-ized Doom 1 levels. ...

Agree - same with the Psx and so on versions. Interesting twist but the original flair ceased to exist.

Sodaholic said:

Just look around, you'll find that many rooms were given taller heights, some doorways and halls were widened slightly. This has no effect on the performance (in fact, may decrease it slightly), so this is certainly a gameplay/aesthetic choice.

No, it's because the console versions have less accurate collision detection. When Saxman released his WAD32X program there were areas in converted levels where you couldn't pass through, even though it was no problem in the PC version. Not only that, you're stuck using a controller (admittedly not all that different from using a keyboard alone), which makes navigating cramped areas even more annoying.

As for texturing, that was likely an aesthetic choice. There's a prototype version of 32X Doom floating around with MAP01-05. They all use STARGR2 in any place the original used a STAR* texture. It's already one of the worst looking STAR* textures, but seeing that same texture for five maps in a row is really monotonous. JagDoom mixed in some Doom 2 textures and used them in MAP03-05, and it looked a lot nicer than seeing the same primary wall texture every map, if not a bit brown.

They also cut most of the textures down to 64x128 after that proto, likely so they could squeeze in more unique textures.

I hated this version of Doom, I always got stuck on walls when running to close, causing me to get killed or damaged pretty bad when trying to hide. Much like the SNES version, getting stuck on walls and getting screwed.

skaman86 said:

I hated this version of Doom, I always got stuck on walls when running to close, causing me to get killed or damaged pretty bad when trying to hide. Much like the SNES version, getting stuck on walls and getting screwed.

I've never experienced that in Jaguar Doom, but have a lot in SNES Doom. Then again, I haven't actually played Jaguar Doom that much. DB is probably right.

Still, this thread is about it's levelset, not the port itself.

I think you are over-analyzing Soda.

Screenshot comparisons of specific areas would be helpful.