Troy Davis

Well, I just became aware of this case very recently. Apparently Troy Davis, accused of shooting and killing a police officer, has been on death row for 22 years and is up for execution for the 4th time. Three previous times a stay of execution was ordered right before he was to be executed. Tonight at 7pm he was to be executed but was put on hold while the court deliberated for 4 hours on a last ditch appeal of sorts. Here is an excerpt from NYTimes

In 2008, his execution was about 90 minutes away when the Supreme Court stepped in. Although the court kept Mr. Davis from execution, it later declined to hear the case.

This time around, the case catapulted into the national consciousness with record numbers of petitions — more than 630,000 — delivered to the board to stay the execution, and a list of people asking for clemency included former President Jimmy Carter, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, 51 members of Congress, entertainment figures like Cee Lo Green and even some death penalty supporters, including William S. Sessions, a former F.B.I. director.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/us/final-pleas-and-vigils-in-troy-davis-execution.html

The stay of execution was denied, but the latest news article on the by the minute updated drama did not say when the execution would be carried about. I haven't researched the case, but it seems like the guy is innocent.

Since Davis's conviction, seven of nine witnesses have changed or recanted their testimony, some have said they were coerced by police to testify against him and some say another man committed the crime.

No physical evidence linked Davis to the killing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-usa-georgia-execution-idUSTRE78K2O620110922?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

the prosecutor's angle: http://cnn.com/video/?/video/crime/2011/09/20/mattingly-prosecutor-lawton-troy-davis.cnn

he was executed at 11:08pm.

http://newsone.com/nation/associated-press/supreme-court-delays-troy-davis-execution/

Yeah, and every cop that shoots an unarmed man in cold blood get s a slap on the wrist.

I, too, didn't really hear about this case until recently, so I don't know all the facts to it. That being said, my gut feeling told me that something about this was wrong. I don't believe he should have been killed.

The last thing the world needs is more trials by media. The opinions of some jerks on the internet really have no impetus on the case at all. We weren't in that courtroom, we weren't on the jury, we don't know what really happened.

The government is not some big evil Illuminati like organization that wants to kill all black people. It's a really juvenile outlook and in the process of raging against the machine, people quickly forget about the necessary function the government serves.

I'm dubious about the death penalty, but in my opinion, there is in fact quite a lot we don't know about this case. And that isn't a good justification for scrutiny on our behalf, that is justification for us to shut the fuck up and let the justice system do its job.

So, does the state he's been punish in convict a one-time murderer to death? Or was this a special case? People have done worse things and received less punishment. I don't like the image of a cop's life having more value than that of an average citizen.

Technician said:

I don't like the image of a cop's life having more value than that of an average citizen.

ragin gainst that machine yo

Sigvatr said:

The last thing the world needs is more trials by media. The opinions of some jerks on the internet really have no impetus on the case at all. We weren't in that courtroom, we weren't on the jury, we don't know what really happened.

The government is not some big evil Illuminati like organization that wants to kill all black people. It's a really juvenile outlook and in the process of raging against the machine, people quickly forget about the necessary function the government serves.

I'm dubious about the death penalty, but in my opinion, there is in fact quite a lot we don't know about this case. And that isn't a good justification for scrutiny on our behalf, that is justification for us to shut the fuck up and let the justice system do its job.

You're an idiot.

"No physical evidence linked Davis to the killing."

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what that means.

Hey I didn't say that I didn't think the guy was innocent, I'm just saying that Joe Internet Opinion needs to get off the internet and take a walk.

People think they are being "skeptical" about this case when they read a news story or a Wikipedia article. They think, "Oh wow, this is clearly a corruption of justice! This man is innocent!" The fact of the matter is that they aren't being skeptical at all. They have bought the opinion of the biased article without so much as even critically thought about it.

Is it the internet's job to churn and churn events like this? Sure, ten million morons on the internet can make a big deal and todo list about this.

But that's all they do. They just get in arguments about it, much like this thread, and nothing actually happens. The dude is fucking dead now, great job internet! You win first prize for achieving absolutely nothing! You are free to put it on your extensive trophy rack.

I'm not really very interested in the case. I am more interested in the memetics. My wife has a major in criminal justice. She has pretty extensively covered this case and through that process I have realized that the police would need to earn an award for the extensive and convoluted job they did trying to cover this up, if that is what actually happened. The cover up job to get a bit of police justice is almost impossible to me. That is why I am skeptical of both sides of the debate.

That's sort of an ignorant point of view to take. Consider the following not very surprising statistic:

the Death Penalty Center’s website states that blacks who kill whites are 16.4 times as likely to be executed as whites who kill blacks … state-sanctioned murder in this country is obviously as American as apple pie.

http://yourblackworld.com/2011/09/09/facts-you-may-not-know-about-the-troy-davis-case/

Now consider the following:

On August 24, 2010, the conviction was upheld, with the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Georgia declaring, “Davis is not innocent.” The judge did not say that Davis is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, implying that the standard for exoneration had been lifted unreasonably high.

1) Of the nine original witnesses in the case, seven have either recanted or contradicted their original stories
2) Of the two witnesses who have not recanted, one of them was a suspect in the murder, Sylvester Coles. A witness even claimed that Coles bragged at a party about having killed an off-duty police officer.
3) Nine individuals have signed affidavits indicting that the murder was committed by Sylvester Coles
4) Troy’s date of execution has been set for September 21, 2011 – so we must move quickly.
5) The Georgia State Board of Pardons and Paroles has originally stated that the execution would only take place if there is “no doubt” about the guilt of the man they are killing.

http://yourblackworld.com/2011/09/09/facts-you-may-not-know-about-the-troy-davis-case/

Does this really lead you to believe that there was not reasonable doubt in the case? The machine ain't squeaky clean, guy.

Killing people because they have killed is the worst form of hypocrisy, seriously. I can understand that that form of mentality exist in the underground world of mobsters etc, but when the state kills people because they MAYBE have commited a crime, it gets really scary.

dannebubinga said:

Killing people because they have killed is the worst form of hypocrisy, seriously. I can understand that that form of mentality exist in the underground world of mobsters etc, but when the state kills people because they MAYBE have commited a crime, it gets really scary.

Putting a person on a life sentence costs a LOT of money. You are basically paying them to have free food, healthcare and security for their entire life. Killing someone takes the burden off of the tax payer.

I thought I read somewhere that execution actually costs more.

This is why I don't support the death penalty. Sure, some people probably "deserve" to die, but I think it's beyond the ken of mortal men to judge just who does. Anyone who is making this decision is going to be biased one way or another. Executing someone when there is this much doubt thrown into the case is VERY wrong. Even legally. I'm fairly sure that all across America they're told not to sentence anyone for any crime unless it's beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty. This should be especially true if the person is going to be put to death.

Each and every one of you who think that this was justified needs to watch Twelve Angry Men. It's a spot-on example of this sort of case.

Though, the death penalty solves nothing unless the criminal is irredeemable and a certain danger to everyone around him/her. Just a very concise example of how inefficient our penal system is.

I don't think anyone here thinks this is justified.

Rohit_N said:

I thought I read somewhere that execution actually costs more.

You did.
"Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present system ($137 million per year), the present system after implementation of the reforms ... ($232.7 million per year) ... and a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty ($11.5 million)."

Sigvatr said:

Putting a person on a life sentence costs a LOT of money. You are basically paying them to have free food, healthcare and security for their entire life. Killing someone takes the burden off of the tax payer.

Not only is killing someone to save money one of the most evil deeds it's possible for me to imagine, giving someone the death penalty costs more money than life imprisonment anyway, due to all the time this wastes in a slough of extra legal proceedings and committee hearings.

My stance is that it's impossible for human beings to mete out the ultimate punishment with any fairness, so we shouldn't try. Imprisonment is good enough.

Creaphis said:

My stance is that it's impossible for human beings to mete out the ultimate punishment with any fairness, so we shouldn't try. Imprisonment is good enough.

Personally, if I ever found myself in this situation, I would prefer the death penalty to rotting in jail for sixty years.

EDIT: WOOPS DONT BAN ME

Here is a version that won't get me banned:

Sigvatr said:

the tax payer.

people who live in shitty neighborhoods working 40 hours a week trying to prolong their go-nowhere-career. The company is downsizing and it doesn't help being late to work because they have to walk their kids to the bus stop every morning because of the fucked up people that live next door. Coming home late at night hyperventilating from the suspense of opening their mailbox to find that they can't pay their mortgage, credit card bill, or that their children might not be able to get their prescription medication or be able to wear winter coats. Maybe they could ask mom and dad for a loan, pawn the TV, skip a few meals. Looks like it's top ramen and kool-aid again tonight. Maybe they'll have to live on the streets or move into a close friend's home while they struggle to be independent and provide for their good-natured family.

PROTIP: don't make babies if you can't afford them

those people don't pay taxes usually

40oz said:

people who live in shitty neighborhoods working 40 hours a week trying to prolong their go-nowhere-career. The company is downsizing and it doesn't help being late to work because they have to walk their kids to the bus stop every morning because of the fucked up people that live next door. Coming home late at night hyperventilating from the suspense of opening their mailbox to find that they can't pay their mortgage, credit card bill, or that their children might not be able to get their prescription medication or be able to wear winter coats. Maybe they could ask mom and dad for a loan, pawn the TV, skip a few meals. Looks like it's top ramen and kool-aid again tonight. Maybe they'll have to live on the streets or move into a close friend's home while they struggle to be independent and provide for their good-natured family.

Maybe they wouldn't have to struggle if they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, saved for a college education and got a good job.

Sigvatr said:

Maybe they wouldn't have to struggle if they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, saved for a college education and got a good job.

Habitus?

Sigvatr is just pointing out the irony of 40oz contrary outlook from a few month back.

eternal slumber said:

PROTIP: don't make babies if you can't afford them

Funny, because here in Canada a baby is your welfare jackpot.

Here in Australia you get paid to have a baby. All of your medical expenses are covered 100% (except getting an ultrasound to identify the gender, that will cost a few hundred). Delivering the baby in the hospital costs nothing. Then you get the "baby bonus" which is a welfare package worth about $8000 over six months.

Fuck America.