Here's a weapon mod idea I'm surprised nobody's thought of yet. . .

. . . Give the classic Doom arsenal an update to match it with the more "modern" style we've been seeing more of. Take the original model designs and sound effects, give them a modernized view and mechanics with some tweaking, rebalancing and simple but utilitarian secondary functions. I have absolutely no experience with programming or modding, or I would've done this already, but the framework should be pretty simple the way I see it:

- Pistol: give it a little more power and firing speed with a relatively small (say, 10 round) magazine to compensate, with a secondary function toggling a slightly zoomed-in "down the sights" (read: Classic-style) viewpoint with higher accuracy but slower fire rate.

- Pump-action and Super Shotguns: not much to improve on except making the spread a little less linear, and their secondary functions would be a quick gun bash that can deliver a knockback/stun (depending on enemy type) effect.

- Chaingun: boost the power but add a spinup time and lengthier reload time (say, 100 rounds per load). Secondary function allows you to stay spun up but disables running while doing so.

- Rocket Launcher: again, not much wrong with it, but a secondary Quake-style Grenade lob function would be nice, with a small, 5 round load.

- Plasma Rifle: give it a 60-round battery; regular fire is fine as is, but a nice secondary function would be either: A) a narrow, piercing plasma beam (not a railgun effect, but more like the Contra laser weapon) that uses more ammo (say 20) with each shot, or B) a 3-shot horzontal spread like, well, the Contra Spread Gun that uses 3 cells per shot with a slightly slower fire rate.

- BFG: normal shot is the room clearer we know and love, secondary fire produces a short-ranged but powerful plasma stream (like the Quake Lightning Gun) that chews through ammo quickly, useful if you get caught at close range.

In summation: a nice, simple weapon update mod that retains the classic Doom feel and gameplay with some modern concessions suitable for vanilla play or for more hectic, monster-heavy WADs thanks to the secondary functions and retweaked weaponry. That's something everybody would appreciate, don'cha think?

Good idea, I like how you ironed-out your thoughts a bit before posting them, nicely done. I'd like to help, but I need to find a good sit-down tutorial for modding, so I cannot help you on that area, yet.


Perhaps a mod that might interest you a tad would be Hideous Destructor?

You might find Parkour interesting. Not counting the dashing / jumping, it's basically "Doom weapons with reloading and altfires."

I'm still not sure why it's still in beta, either. Prolly just need to release it already.

There's a few general things I'd like to mention about modern games, I guess it fits in this thread.

The whole weapon reloading mechanic in games these days is quite flawed. Magically taking out the weapon's magazine with ammo still left in it and putting in a new magazine, and being fully reloaded without having to worry about the old one you just tossed out, can be kind of retarded.

I understand why they made it this way, so as to prevent awkward reloads in the midst of combat, but it leads to never ending reload whoring as can be plainly seen on youtube videos. Players are constantly firing a couple bullets and then throwing out the magazine and putting in a new one, their bullets being magically recharged from an abstract bullet supply that exists independent of the magazines. Why even have reloading in the first place if it's going to be so trivial and stupid like this? It doesn't do you any good to reload that often, it just leaves you vulnerable to attack each time you magically swap your magic auto-refilling magazines.

None of this applies to shotguns that are reloaded one shell at a time, of course. But with weapons that use drums or magazines, or energy cells or plasma or batteries or something, it's just a ridiculous sight in the end. Plus we don't get to see the spent magazines lying on the floor after you toss one, whereas that could be implemented with a more realistic reloading system. It's pretty stupid that the ejected casings just magically disappear after a short time, too. And dead bodies disappear as well.

I am always seeing the hammer not being cocked on pistols. The gun magically fires without using its hammer, but the slide goes back and a casing is ejected. Or the hammer works in double action but the gun is supposed to be single-action. And when you reload the pistol when the magazine is not empty the slide magically appears in its locked back position and you magically reload a magic magazine. And with assault rifles your character always pulls back and releases the bolt, even if there would have been a bullet in the chamber because you're reloading before the magazine was empty. Hahahaha... I don't know, these finer details have always bugged me. I think paying attention to things like this could go a long way in making a game believable.

Since there's 1monster mode with only 1 monster in each level, if there's a 1weapon mode then it will be fun. I agree with this mode.

Shameless self-promotion here...

I made a couple mods you might find interesting in connection to what you proposed:

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=16080 (DOOM NG)
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15913 (Revenge)

Although they don't exactly implement what you specify, they are enhancement mods of the standard DOOM arsenal... Although your ideas may make me want to start a third effort... :-)

The whole weapon reloading mechanic in games these days is quite flawed. Magically taking out the weapon's magazine with ammo still left in it and putting in a new magazine, and being fully reloaded without having to worry about the old one you just tossed out, can be kind of retarded.

There's games in which you lose any ammo you have left in the magazine if you reload too soon. I couldn't name a name if my life depended on it, but they're out there.

6Axis might tickle your fancy.

[/alsoshamelessplug]

Lots of nice stuff here! I'm more partial to the "tweaked vanilla" things that keep the original gameplay intact without adding too much to it, but the things I find are often a bit flawed or clumsy in their execution. I'm taking a liking to the "Real Reloading Weapons" mod, although some of the guns could've used more tuning up (like the surprisingly inaccurate pistol and slow-to-reload pump-action), and the "Doom 3 Weapons Reissued" I found on ZDoom's forums works well enough but suffers from too many cluttered ammo types on top of grenades. Brutal Doom is a great change-of-pace (and crazy tough), but for the times when I'd like a more traditional Doom experience with a bit more refinement and spice I'm not quite satisfied with what's out there. I can't help it; I'm a bit old-fashioned like that.

Still, I'm absolutely flabbergasted as a guy who grew up during the glory days of Wolf 3D and Doom that the modding and level designing community is still so active and creative, making a two decade-old title look and play like nothing I could've imagined as an impressionable young teen. Thanks for the kind words so far!

Reaper978 said:

guns behaving unrealistically

Game developers don't know how real firearms work. Even coming from all these uber-realistic military games (Modern Warfare being the worst offender).

In case anybody still wasn't clear about my intentions for this idea, here's my tagline pitch: "'French Vanilla DOOM: A Classic Weapons Update Mod'! For the refined modern Doomer who'd like some more complex flavor in their game without sacrificing the essence". Classy, no?

It's a good idea, yes, but you'd more than likely be better off actually making the mod yourself.


DooM +; although it may have the invisible and useless seeking missles, it's still a good mod, AND it has Nashgore mixed into it. :)


http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/42348-doom-plus-doom-weapons-blance-mod/

The game is balanced against the weapons as they already are. Rapid firing or room clearing weapons just ruin that balance. I've seen videos of an mp5 or p90 holding Barons and Cacodemons in the pain state, and the rate of fire is so fast said monsters die quickly.

Trust me, some of the WADs I've tried out pull some seriously cheap moves or enemy floods that the vanilla weapons can't quite handle without either extreme luck or foresight. Again, this is pretty much a pipe dream of mine, my "ideal" weapon mod: one that doesn't overpower, but enhances the basic arsenal in some ways with necessary balances while giving the player a few more options they can ignore if they want. Something that keeps it simple and cuts down on the occasional frustrations without the superfluous stuff like loads of extra items or monster replacements/crazy weapon designs and reskins like some other ones do. Let a guy without the tools and talent to make his dream a reality wax philosophical, okay? :p

Steve1664 said:

Trust me, some of the WADs I've tried out pull some seriously cheap moves or enemy floods that the vanilla weapons can't quite handle without either extreme luck or foresight. Again, this is pretty much a pipe dream of mine, my "ideal" weapon mod: one that doesn't overpower, but enhances the basic arsenal in some ways with necessary balances while giving the player a few more options they can ignore if they want. Something that keeps it simple and cuts down on the occasional frustrations without the superfluous stuff like loads of extra items or monster replacements/crazy weapon designs and reskins like some other ones do. Let a guy without the tools and talent to make his dream a reality wax philosophical, okay? :p

BrutalDoom does that quite nicely.

Steve1664 said:

Trust me, some of the WADs I've tried out pull some seriously cheap moves or enemy floods that the vanilla weapons can't quite handle without either extreme luck or foresight.

I'd like to see these WADs.

Steve1664 said:

Let a guy without the tools and talent to make his dream a reality wax philosophical, okay? :p

If you want it done right, you gotta do it yourself.

Cyanosis said:

Game developers don't know how real firearms work. Even coming from all these uber-realistic military games (Modern Warfare being the worst offender).

Fun > Balance > Realism. If reloading weapons in games were done more realistically as described, it would probably be far too complicated for most people to enjoy. A lot of unrealistic weapon cliches are there because they work well in the fast-paced action world. A different way can be done, of course, but it's not a trivial change for the average player.

Phml said:

There's games in which you lose any ammo you have left in the magazine if you reload too soon. I couldn't name a name if my life depended on it, but they're out there.

Well, Cold as Hell for Doom comes to mind... And as a standalone game, I think Brothers in Arms:Hells Highway had this, but I am not very sure.