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I think such demo would be very easy to accuse of cheating. :( It is "almost" impossible but with the use of -recordfromto you can do it in 5 minutes. Inevitably there will be suspicion. This is why I never tried it.

i was messing around with the glide route, because it's actually one of the easier flat faced glides i know of, but the several rare successful attempts all died in the sewer. no BA is ridiculous. also what memfis said.

I tried to find methods to cause infights and safely proceed, but couldn't find anything. It seems to be pure luck.

I'm sure P4M6 is much more easy to do and it is probably the next one to be finished from the unfinished pacifists.

P2M8 seems to be impossible, unless one finds a way to get cyber demon stuck like in E4M6 or maybe someone knows/finds a loophole how to trick cyber demon's target.

I know one tactic for PA30, but it will be TAS material and I'm not sure if it works. (Btw, john romero isn't monster because it's there even with -nomonsters parameter, just like a barrel? :P )

I think MAP02 alone is the map that turned me off from speedrunning all together. I really should try some other maps!

Paska, could you shed any light on the PA30 tactic? I fail to see how one could force monsters to hit romero's head. The only idea is to guide revenants' firballs, but this is really hard if possible, because they dont have any splash damage.

Why not start super slowly and work upwards, rather than go at breakneck speed? It doesn't need to be as fast as UV speed to be entertaining.

I was thinking about pa30, and thought that maybe if you get into the void (easy from the starting room) and head for the 'seam', you could wake the shooter and by placing yourself in the corresponding locations, you could get it to misdirect attacks onto the Romero head.

However, I've no idea if this even has a chance of working. Do telescratches only hit their intended target? Even if the monsters think you are actually sitting on top of Romero, can their attacks hurt him (I tried noclipping into there, and couldn't make that happen). So maybe you also need to be at just the right height, and such a location may not exist, barring some huge fluke. Still a dream demo of the highest order, of course.

As for pa02, I think AdamW has tried this quite a lot, but never got through the BK area. He also said that it was pointless even to try to skip the blue armour, and so the glide isn't especially useful.

Phml: pa02 is murder slow or fast, with the underground area the worst part, partly because you can't provoke much infighting until you are in thick of it. It's undone because no one can (so far) do it, not because people don't want to use a slow approach.

It's even hard to do in god mode. All the imps bunch up on both sides of the door in the lower sewer part.

Majority of opposition consists of hitscanners, so I assume it would be harder and still totally luckbased if played slowly.

Nostalgia: 2008, Xit Vono got this far.

Are there TAS demos of MAP02 pacifist?

DuckReconMajor said:

Are there TAS demos of MAP02 pacifist?

Yeah Sedlo has done at least two which are archived here.

Quite a tease, since its clearly possible, yet requires an astronomical amount of luck compared to other undone pacifists where we don't even know how to do them.

Grazza said:

Yes. Didn't you look in the obvious place?

The obvious place wasn't help until I was like hey maybe I should search doom 2 tas then look for map2. I was about to post that I'd found it here right before NoobBait posted, heh.

Thanks for the links though guys.

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This will be very hard, there are a lot of shotgun guys everywhere. By not shooting, how can we get the red key then? Even if we succeed on getting the red key, there's still problems on getting the blue key. Imps and zombies blocking way!

DuckReconMajor said:

The obvious place

No, the first place to look for demos is The DooMed Speed Demos Archive, where demos are listed by wad name (or player), and then by map number and demo category. It is to demos what the /idgames archive is to wads.

jongo said:

Paska, could you shed any light on the PA30 tactic?

Get 5 arch-viles to the high ground, not sure if it's enough high at the elevator button, so you'll have to lure at least 4 arch-viles on the elevator. After somehow doing that and getting yourself on the lift too, one has to jump so that the first arch-vile attack kills you, so you can fit into the icon of sin. After that the 4 arch-viles on the elevator will attack your corpse, which happens to be near romero, and gets blown away by 63*4 dmg or so.

And yes, the idea is ridiculous but I did manage to hit the romero with idclip using one arch-vile @ elevator.

Christ. Well, you're the man to do it. Good luck!

Try doing pa02 using the glide, at best you wont have to deal with those annoying sergeants near the red keycard. But yeah this speedrun is way beyond my grasp **

The thing is, those annoying sergeants by the red key (which you don't need with the glide route) are the same ones that guard the blue armour, which you do need even to have an outside chance of surviving the area around the blue key. That's why the glide doesn't help as much as you might expect.

Yeah its a really far fetched theory to use that glide but theoretically it should be possible

There's always hope; the spirit of demo-recording. :)

odysseyofnoises: yes, you avoid a bunch of shotgunners, but the glide itself is still very rare to achieve. and then you need to do the hardest bottleneck without the BA. i believe the route is harder than the regular one.

Yeah but wouldn't it be awesome if someone did a tas demo of pa 02 using the glide :D

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odysseyofnoises said:

Yeah but wouldn't it be awesome if someone did a tas demo of pa 02 using the glide :D

Nope.

Just happened on this thread. FWIW when I was trying pa02 seriously I got around as far as vono on my best attempt; that was in like two weeks of playing 2-3 hours a day.

I'd say it's about as hard as a non-trick run can be without actually being entirely impossible. If easy is 0, and impossible is 100, it's about a 99.9. No other run I've done is even close to as hard. Or...I mean, it's not *hard*, exactly. There's very little skill involved, just a bit of sergeant voodoo. Let's say "unlikely".

Do you abuse doors enough?

Edit: The SSG room door can be used to kill the wandering monsters. I believe this strategy has been overlooked?

I hate playing and watching demos made that way so I've never done it. But I doubt it ultimately makes much difference. On a good run you take fairly little damage from the 'wandering' monsters: the trouble are the ones in specific set-piece locations, i.e. basically the red key / blue armor fort and especially the ones in the basement.

Obviously ensuring you don't take a flyby hit from any 'wanderers' is part of the luck involved in getting a good run, and often you do and just quit and start over. But it's probably faster to quit and start over on the fast run than it is to spend a few minutes mashing a door, only to jump into the red key room and die two seconds later and have to do it all over again. So I think it's probably even more efficient to do it the 'fast' way.