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bimlanders

What disappointed you about Doom?

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Snakes said:

I played them when I was seven. Back then, the concept of a 'disappointing' game totally eluded my mind.


Yeah I think being around that same age I was pretty easily amused. Doom 2 didn't have a whole lot that Doom 1 didn't already have but 32 new levels, some new monsters, and a map that resembled a crumbled city was enough for me.

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Foodles said:

no long loading times


The game startup time was kinda slow on typical 1994 hardware. Easily 30-60 seconds, depending on what kind of rig you had. Many people still had 386's the first time they played Doom. I was lucky enough to have a fresh 486DX/33 with 4 MB RAM, VesaLB video, and a brand new 420 MB IDE (not EIDE!) disk. Older disks from previous upgrades would have been slower, of course... Anyway, if you played PWADs or tried making your own maps, you spent plenty of time staring at that "Init DOOM Refresh Daemon [... ]" line, watching the little dots in anticipation. ;)

When you consider that, along with the fact that DEU and other early map editors didn't have any fancy 3D preview mode, it is easy to forgive small errors like misaligned textures in those early PWADs.

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Well, it seems most of my disappointments were already listed: nothing new in UDoom ep4, only one new weapon in D2, lackluster levels in D2, no bosses, no intermission maps... etc etc.

But i was also a bit disappointed with some aspects of the PC version because for a long time my only version of Doom was the SNES port. I was pretty disappointed by some of the original music choices in Doom 1, which were better handled in the port, i feel. Like the e2m1 music, e2m3 (e2m2 in the port) music, and no e2m7 so it's music is heard for the first time in an actually fitting level, e3m7. And overall i didn't really like the maps that weren't in the port, probably because i was so used to what i thought doom was and had troubles really associating them with it.

Also when i visit various doom community sites, i'm always inccredibly disappointed to find people disliking doom3, because i feel that this case is not a matter of taste like videogame opinions usually are and doom3 is an objectively really great game, and people dislike it for dumb reasons.

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I dunno. When Doom came out, it was such an amazing piece of blow-you-away software, it was impossible to think anything about it other than "Damn!". There was no room for nitpicking it. Just a feeling of awe.

However, I did miss some of the cooler things from Wolf3D. Like when BJ runs out of the castle and says "Yeah!". Or the faces at the difficuly setting. I thought those were neat and wondered why they weren't in Doom.

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Besides most of the things listed by others already, I was pretty disappointed that both secret levels for Doom 2 were Wolfenstein 3D themed levels. It kinda broke the feeling and theme of the game a bit for me.

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Heh, guess I forgot to mention that one too. I thought they were funny at first, but definitely "meh" after the initial novelty wore off. Nowadays I skip them entirely, whereas I always visit all other wads' secret maps, even E2M9. :P

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GoatLord said:

Although all the weapon animations are a bit choppy, I felt they really could have cleaned this up, too. To have the right hand just completely disappear like that really bothered me and still kind of does


I'm not actually put off by the choppiness, it's a speed issue for me. It's like he was actually "practicing" the punch rather than punching to inflict any damage. Way too slow.

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Mr. T said:
I dunno. When Doom came out, it was such an amazing piece of blow-you-away software, it was impossible to think anything about it other than "Damn!". There was no room for nitpicking it. Just a feeling of awe.


I'm the starter of this thread and I absolutely agree with the above. Everyone has to understand that most of us back in '93, '94 played the shareware probably about a thousand times before begging our parents to submit credit card info over the phone to buy the full version. During this intense gestation period, the mind starts to become more greedy, since the walls of previous expectations had come so suddenly crashing down, Doom left the promise of infinite possibilities. Ironically, at least for me, these promises have never been fully met in subsequent gaming history. I would have killed to have a 2.5D Doom 3 come out in '95 or '96, to see everything come to its full potential.

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bimlanders said:

I would have killed to have a 2.5D Doom 3 come out in '95 or '96, to see everything come to its full potential.

Doom 64. :P


(okay, so D64 was released in 97, but still)

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Xaser said:

Doom 64. :P


(okay, so D64 was released in 97, but still)


Fair enough. But a couple of problems. It wasn't for the PC, and it wasn't actually a superior game to Doom 1, 2. Otherwise this would be the Doom 64 forum. :p

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Doom was the first game I remember playing, so I really had no expectations, quite simply. Therefore disappointment was out of the question, relating to several other posters for whom Doom was among the first games they've played.

After thinking for a while, there was one thing I remember that disappointed me when I played Doom II. I really liked how the intermission screen in the first Doom showed you a map of all the locales you were supposed to go to, but all Doom II had was a creepy skull mosaic. I can understand why they went for it, showing nine locales wasn't much of a task but showing thirty (perhaps the secrets levels wouldn't be shown on there) locales would've been much more tricky to deal with.

I'll also chip in my dislike for the secret levels of Doom II as well, although it was interesting the first time I went through, as I had never played Wolfenstein before, or even heard of it. To be honest, I thought it was a homage to the third Indiana Jones movie somehow, as that movie was my first introduction to the swastika, and I hadn't learned about what they actually meant yet.

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Asking if I had disappointments with Doom would be like asking someone who saw Star Wars back or King Kong opening night if they left the theater disappointed.

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Brewtal_Legend said:

Besides most of the things listed by others already, I was pretty disappointed that both secret levels for Doom 2 were Wolfenstein 3D themed levels. It kinda broke the feeling and theme of the game a bit for me.


I always felt that too, because even though Doom wasn't realistic, there was a seriousness to it conveyed by the utter hopelessness of facing off against thousands of demons with no assistance, the dramatic use of lighting, the art direction, the occasional use of ambient music, etc. That seriousness is thrown out the window when you're running around in oversized maps based on a previous franchise, and literally killing off another franchise in order to exit the map. I can appreciate the metaphysical humor, but it's ultimately out of place, which is why you rarely see the resources from those maps in decent user made maps. By the way, does anyone know why the Wolf textures are so freaking big in Doom 2?

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GoatLord said:

By the way, does anyone know why the Wolf textures are so freaking big in Doom 2?

I've generally assumed the double-sized textures (from the Macintosh version of Wolf3D, I think) were used to accomodate the Cyberdemon.

Disappointments in Doom:
- Can't move above or below solid objects/monsters/etc.
- Episode 4 is mostly shit. I feel truly sorry for anyone who actually bought the 'Ultimate' Doom retail

Disappointments in Doom II:
- Music tends less rocking or orchestral, more poppy/Muzak-y (lightweight Latin jazz, what the heck?)
- Secret Wolf3D levels can't decide whether they want to be faithful or not (SS instead of troopers, textures as mentioned, demons instead of dogs, a couple extra secret areas and missing one of the originals...)

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I guess the only things that disappointed me were: Only red hit blood dispite the cacodemons and barons having blue and green blood on corpses/death animations, most monsters share the same hurt sound and a lot of other sound resources are being shared rather then everything having its own unique sound, the reused music tracks in later episodes and maybe also the cutting of the hell treasures, but other than these things I still enjoyed the game regardless.

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Based on all the great things about the game that I heard over the years before playing it, I imagined it to be better than what it actually was in the end. When I first played it in early 2009, it was kind of a let down to see that you really just play trough one level after the another until you finished them. I missed small cutscenes between the levels or at least a little intro at the beginning.
When I was younger (in 2004 when I was 11, I believe), I often listened to the Doom midis I found on the internet and imagined what the track I heard at the moment could portray in the game. I had all kinds of stories, levels and expectations in my head because of that, and those were much more awesome than the actual game. )=

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MSPaintR0cks said:

Based on all the great things about the game that I heard over the years before playing it, I imagined it to be better than what it actually was in the end. When I first played it in early 2009, it was kind of a let down to see that you really just play trough one level after the another until you finished them. I missed small cutscenes between the levels or at least a little intro at the beginning.
When I was younger (in 2004 when I was 11, I believe), I often listened to the Doom midis I found on the internet and imagined what the track I heard at the moment could portray in the game. I had all kinds of stories, levels and expectations in my head because of that, and those were much more awesome than the actual game. )=


It's funny that you mention "...you really just play through one level after another until you finished them." That's what video games were back then, unless it was a complex sim like Sim City 2000. I think that this is what newer gamers are missing out most on: pick up and play, simple game mechanics and level, exploration based games. Maybe I'm biased because that's what I grew up with. But kudos to you for checking out a great game that is so far before your time.

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bimlanders said:

It's funny that you mention "...you really just play through one level after another until you finished them." That's what video games were back then, unless it was a complex sim like Sim City 2000. I think that this is what newer gamers are missing out most on: pick up and play, simple game mechanics and level, exploration based games. Maybe I'm biased because that's what I grew up with. But kudos to you for checking out a great game that is so far before your time.


I grew up with the N64 and SNES games in the late 90s and I was always used to seeing that the games tried to tell kind of epic stories using cutscenes here and there (at least the ones I played). =)
So yes, I kind of missed out on the earlier style of gameplay from the games that were released earlier.

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Not many things have dissapointed me in Doom 1 or 2. I don't remember being dissapointed much then.

Seeing it now, I hate that the spider boss is weaker than the cybie, also I don't like the final boss of Doom 2 and I don't like it in other WADs. Even if they have interesting variations of the boss, trying to aim through a small hole on a lifting elevator while more monsters are spawned, while challenging for some, it ends with me using cheats. I'd prefer a hard boss which I can hit easilly but he can also easilly kill you and needs strafing skills, maybe someone with BFG weapon, hmm..

Also, ultimate doom, didn't liked it much (I like the sky of it). Too hard at first two levels. Some later levels are small and good. But that's it, doesn't add too much.

I never complained about having only one additional weapon in Doom 2 back then. And the SSG was already too good. Though, now I think I miss a sniper or a more damaging snipping weapon. I like snipping enemies from far away or from narrow passages in the walls, finding the perfect spot and then I use the chaingun. But it takes time, it's weak for such work. One additional more powerfully sniper or railgun or more rapid chaingung or whatever (even without zoom) would be cool.

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Urban Space Cowboy said:

I've generally assumed the double-sized textures (from the Macintosh version of Wolf3D, I think) were used to accomodate the Cyberdemon.


I always assumed this as well, but it seems like they could have just made a big area for the Cybie and left everything else proportionate. Oh well, the Doom Wolf textures looked pretty slick, so who cares.

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Only one thing: the spider mastermind's hit points - It just seems too low, unless you're taking on that four legged freak NIGHTMARE style.

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Mostly graphical anomalies, and some back-tracking from standards set by Wolfenstein:

1) Masking the lack of dedicated idle animation frame(s) for monsters with a crude two frame cycle from it's run animation.
2) Inability of monsters to roam the map while idle, and related to this, the lack of dedicated walking frames.
3) Lack of multi-angle corpses / death frames as other posters have mentioned.
4) Lack of multi-angle decoration and item sprites.
5) Jerky chainsaw movement bobbing (presumably a technical limitation imposed by the presence of idle animation).
6) Diluting the significance of the Cyber and Spider by making them non-unique (remember it wasn't just Doom 2 - the Cyberdemon also appeared in the E3 secret). Related, inconsistent naming conventions for both bosses - "Cyberdemon Lord" -> "Cyberdemon", "Spiderdemon" -> "Spider Mastermind".
7) The weak-sounding chaingun (particularly after Wolfenstein).
8) The lack of positional offset for projectiles (notice the location of the Cyberdemon's rocket immediately after firing - it's not relative to his gun, but from a fixed location at the centre of the sprite.)
9) The "backwards leg" appearance of the goat-legged adversaries (Cyberdemon and Baron of Hell) - they're missing the forward-facing knee joint (recall that the reverse portion of a goat's leg is analogous to a human's ankle.) This was made evident by Brom's more accurate representation on the Doom 2 cover art. This apparent oversight was no doubt due to Adrian's use of a humanoid-form articulated mannequin in the creation of the respective clay models.

As a slight diversion, and related to the above observations, I recall being most excited upon discovering the noclipping cheat for Wolfenstein and expecting finally be able to sneak up behind the bosses through the walls and see their other sprite angles. I was most disappointed to find Hans Grosse only had front-facing frames :)

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I think the lack of angle frames for decorations, pickups, and corpses is intentional for more than just the sake of reducing the needed work and filesize: moving around a static object and seeing its sprite instantly change angles by 45 degrees is rather jarring, and draws far more attention to their flatness than having a single, constant angle does.

With monsters, the effect is significantly lessened because they're supposed to be moving and turning. You expect a lamp or a dead guy not to really make any sudden movements though :P

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