US to Israel: You're Terrorists

Sources tell NBC News that Israel has been working with People’s Mujahedin of Iran, long designated a terrorist group by the U.S., to kill Iranian nuclear scientists, and the group may have destroyed a missile research and development site. If this is true.... Holy shit.

http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/08/10354553-israel-teams-with-terror-group-to-kill-irans-nuclear-scientists-us-officials-tell-nbc-news

The group, the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, has long been designated as a terrorist group by the United States, accused of killing American servicemen and contractors in the 1970s and supporting the takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran before breaking with the Iranian mullahs in 1980.

The attacks, which have killed five Iranian nuclear scientists since 2007 and may have destroyed a missile research and development site, have been carried out in dramatic fashion, with motorcycle-borne assailants often attaching small magnetic bombs to the exterior of the victims’ cars.

U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Obama administration is aware of the assassination campaign but has no direct involvement.

Just wow. For once I can't say a word more.

If this is true.... Holy shit.

How so? Governments work with enemies of their allies all the time.

If working with a group is condoning everything they've ever done, the United States are responsible for dozens if not hundreds of millions of deaths in the last century. Even the worst dictators you can think of are small time compared to that.

Phml said:

How so? Governments work with enemies of their allies all the time.

If working with a group is condoning everything they've ever done, the United States are responsible for dozens if not hundreds of millions of deaths in the last century. Even the worst dictators you can think of are small time compared to that.

They kinda are, in a way.

I know it's no big deal to us that live in reality. But you see, I live in the south, where Jesus is as big as Coca-cola, and where Israel does no wrong. Not only has Israel done wrong, but US even admits they knew about it, didn't do shit about it, and somehow I know tax dollars might have gone to this, even if it was indirectly by about 10-15 degrees.

I wish the US would stop funding the Zionist experiment and save a cool 3 billion per year. How's that for a saving?

Fair enough.

In France, you don't have to look hard to find hate talk about Israel. Officially, we tend to be on their side, yet about ~8-10% of our population is of Arab ethnicity, so the streets sing a very different tune. In those conditions it's not hard to remember Israel is essentially a tiny country of 7 million people or so, with 1 billion enemies who would love nothing more than to obliterate them. Nobody survives these kinds of odds playing nice.

I'm not saying this justifies anything they do, of course; and yes, it is annoying to see our money being wasted feeding more of those bullshit antiquated religion wars when we should be moving on to fix global problems.

Israel belongs to the evil ancient tribe of the "Nefeleim", which opposed the enlighted faction of the "Eloheim", which became Ancient Greeks instead. Fact.

Nefeleim are the scum of the Earth. Fact.

The people in the Middle East don't want to "wipe them off the map" (Israel's words) because they are movie bad guys. How would you feel if a bunch of people came to your country, kicked you out of your house and shot at you all day while labelling you a terrorist?

I'm not going to shed any tears on the day Israel has no more friends and the Palestinians get their country back. And hopefully send all the Jews to live in France, preferably at phml's house.

Israel has been working with terrorist groups for a long while. They propped up the Hamas against the Fatah, even backing them financially, all that to decredibilize the Palestinian Authority and ensure the situation remains a hopeless mess. Because the longer it rots, the more justified they are to continue to attack Palestinians and steal their lands. Basic "divide to rule" approach here.

I'm not going to shed any tears on the day Israel has no more friends and the Palestinians get their country back. And hopefully send all the Jews to live in France, preferably at phml's house.

As far as I'm concerned, you guys can exterminate each other and leave the world to the rest of us. As I've already said, your religious bullshit bores me, and my money being spent on your fictional problems angers me.

I'm not surprised. Nor would I be surprised if the Whitehouse is covering up the tracks and we were involved as well.

Csonicgo said:

Not only has Israel done wrong, but US even admits they knew about it, didn't do shit about it, and somehow I know tax dollars might have gone to this, even if it was indirectly by about 10-15 degrees.

Well if we got mad and did something, we would have been doing something against ourselves. Israel is a US satellite state, after all.

The US and European sanctions against Iran are arguably as bad as Israel's murders and damage to scientific facilities as they attack the people of Iran, because the country is having problems buying food. All because of an accusation of intentions; the US already declared they don't think Iran is working on nukes, but apply sanctions "so they can't do it." Less horrid, but with a greater scale of damage.

It's like imprisonment without a sentence but to a country.

Maes, can you please translate the text on that video to English? I'm curious what it says, but have no idea what it says, due to not knowing Greek. I'd run it through Google Translate, but I can't just copy-paste it in, as it's part of the video, not actual text data. Due to my unfamiliarity with the Greek alphabet, I can't just type it in either.

As for this news story, fuck Israel. One should never kill scientists.

Phml said:

As far as I'm concerned, you guys can exterminate each other and leave the world to the rest of us. As I've already said, your religious bullshit bores me, and my money being spent on your fictional problems angers me.

???

My concerns are humanitarian, not sectarian.

Sodaholic said:

Maes, can you please translate the text on that video to English? I'm curious what it says, but have no idea what it says, due to not knowing Greek. I'd run it through Google Translate, but I can't just copy-paste it in, as it's part of the video, not actual text data. Due to my unfamiliarity with the Greek alphabet, I can't just type it in either.

It's basically some very popular (in Greece) messianic eschatological conspiracy theory about how the evil Nefeleim race was created to oppose the enlightened Eloheim (which became ancient Greeks), explaining going from their origins as semi-human abomination and their evolution to modern jews. 100% objective and backed by facts.

I suggest you read this guy's books (also, easier to translate).

Further reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon_Team
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_mysticism

SLAVES OF THE ZOG, AWAKE!!!

Mr. T said:

???

My concerns are humanitarian, not sectarian.

Yet, you believe in the concept of land ownership as a given (holy?) right and reduce any position to "if you're not with me, you're against me/with my enemies". Fairly irrational thinking there.

Well the Palestinians (both Muslims and Jews) were living fairly peacefully in Palestine before European Jews came and forced them off their land using terror tactics, and continue to use weapons bought with billions of dollars in aid to enforce even more land grabs as of this day, while blaming it on the victims.

As a human, that is seriously fucked up.

What does anything I have said have anything to with religion at all? You are the one who brought it in to the conversation, not me.

Mr. T said:

Well the Palestinians (both Muslims and Jews) were living fairly peacefully in Palestine before European Jews came and forced them off their land using terror tactics, and continue to use weapons bought with billions of dollars in aid to enforce even more land grabs as of this day, while blaming it on the victims.

not gonna lie, i laughed heartily. good one!

So only when it gets mentioned by "US Officials" and ends up on NBC do people finally believe it? This shit was reported months ago by other news agencies and it was pretty obvious what was happening then. I feel sorry for the general populace of the US if it takes this long for them to recognise when they're being lied to.

Yeah, it sucks seeing how so much of the population here has such a backwards view of the situation in Israel. Back in my sophomore year at high school, my textbook had a picture of a Palestinian abusing a Jewish person, but only presented that part of the picture. It's easy to see just how an average American can gain such a nationalist world view when that's all that's been taught since birth.

I grew up in a very conservative suburb (St. Charles, MO - where Rick Santorum gave his post-primary victory speech). Many of the people I was on friendly terms with have since dismissed my points of view as asinine and diluted. They now come off to me as homophobic and racist, and frankly, I'm surprised it took me this long to realize it.

What's surprising about this? It was obvious that Israel killed 'em in the first place.

Big, fat meh. Nearly any power will use terrorist methods when pushed far enough. Iran didn't have to do much pushing, but they're good at looking scary.

I like Israel, mostly for being a hive of autistic, Jewish scientists, and for inventing ICQ. I don't understand why Christians like it so much. The Jews are the ones who threw Jesus to the Romans according to Christian scripture.

It's the country of Hell Revealed. Thus they should be able to defend themselves against hordes of enemies without our help.

yukib1t said:

Nor would I be surprised if the Whitehouse is covering up the tracks and we were involved as well.

Wouldn't surprise me either, though the connections are probably indirect enough to be deniable. Anyone here remember Irangate?

Aliotroph? said:

The Jews are the ones who threw Jesus to the Romans according to Christian scripture.

That's according to a scripture which was probably written centuries later when the State church of the Roman Empire standardized the bible's content. A Messiah running around loose in the middle east would have represented a potential threat to the stability of Roman vassal states in the region, one that the local governor would be expected to deal with as a matter of course.

From Wikipedia -
"In Jewish eschatology, the term came to refer to a future Jewish King from the Davidic line, who will be "anointed" with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. Belief in the eventual coming of a future messiah is a fundamental part of Judaism, and is one of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith. In Judaism, the Messiah is not considered to be God or a Son of God.

GreyGhost said:

That's according to a scripture which was probably written centuries later when the State church of the Roman Empire standardized the bible's content.

The gospels in particular, but also all of the works of the NT were written about 2 centuries before christianity was even decriminalized in the roman world.

Suppose I should have said "rewritten", since the Bible as we know it is still a work-in-progress. Here's a couple of paragraphs from an interesting article on the subject.

"One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned." When the Church of Constantine endeavored to make the teachings of the New Covenant in sync with fourth century Roman Pagan thought and culture, to ignore the facts with respect to the manner in which the corrupters of the Word recreated the message of the scriptures in order to make it compatible to church doctrine, is to make oneself disingenuous to the very Son of God to whom we proclaim to be faithful to."

"The truth and the facts to the matter is very clearly expressed in the words of Prof. Bart D. Ehrman in his book, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, where he warns us that: "...theological disputes, specifically disputes over Christology, prompted Christian scribes to alter the words of scripture in order to make them more serviceable for the polemical task. Scribes modified their manuscripts to make them more patently ‘orthodox’ and less susceptible to ‘abuse’ by the opponents of orthodoxy" -- which orthodoxy was to bring the text of the Bible into conformity with the doctrines and tenets of the Church of the Roman Emperor Constantine. To close our hearts and minds to the facts, and ignore the truth, is from a New Covenant perspective synonymous with relinquishing any claim whatsoever with respect to being a follower of Jesus."

I highly recommend Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus". It gives a fascinating look at how the books of the Bible were changed and developed in the first few centuries of Christianity.

Aliotroph? said:
Big, fat meh. Nearly any power will use terrorist methods when pushed far enough. Iran didn't have to do much pushing, but they're good at looking scary.

A morality based on passive predictability hardly tends toward anything reasonable or humane. There's nothing more authoritarian than the justification of brutality by naturalization.

More so, if the "pushing" is mostly on an impression or image that Iran gives (or is given) rather than any actual harm it causes, the justification is similar to "she was wearing a miniskirt, so she asked for it."

Csonicgo said:

Sources tell NBC News that Israel has been working with People’s Mujahedin of Iran, long designated a terrorist group by the U.S., to kill Iranian nuclear scientists, and the group may have destroyed a missile research and development site. If this is true.... Holy shit.

Oops. We are sorry for the inconvenience, Sir. It must have slipped us. We will duly remedy the matter by removing the group known as the "People’s Mujahedin of Iran" from our official terrorist group list, with all due apologies to their very respected Leadership.

Signed,

The US Department Of State

Seriously though, a terrorist group can be "promoted" to "freedom fighter" or some other "nobler" category if the political goals of the moment demand it. Compare with the KLA:

The KLA was regarded by the US as a terrorist group until 1998 when it was de-listed for classified reasons,[9][10] and then the UK and the US lobbied France to do the same.[11] The US then cultivated diplomatic relationships with the KLA leaders.[10][12]

Seems the US and the CIA really forgot to "upgrade" the "People’s Mujahedin of Iran" to a better status, since they are actually opposed to the regime they so openly despise, huh?

The People's Mujahedin of Iran (PMOI, also MEK, MKO) (Persian: سازمان مجاهدين خلق ايران sāzmān-e mojāhedin-e khalq-e irān) is a militant Terrorist organization that advocates the overthrow of the Islamic Republic of Iran[3].

Now it's a bit too late to "save face" but *CIA HACKING*