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Kappes Buur

Discussion about using modified resources

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Kappes Buur said:

However, because of the 'you may not use' clause, you will have to modify the textures somewhat before using them in your map.

Uh, I think you've misunderstood something there. Permission is not granted for them to be used in that way.

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Grazza said:

Uh, I think you've misunderstood something there. Permission is not granted for them to be used in that way.

From the Area51 txt file:

Authors may NOT use this level as a base to build additional
levels or use any custom graphics within.
E-Mail me and I may give in on *some* of the graphics.

While this clause makes it abundantly clear that the author does not give permission to have his maps used as a base for someone else's maps, he also states that he does not want his custom textures to be used by anyone.

Concerning these custom textures, the clause prohibits the use of such textures, but it does not mention anything about not modifying the textures to become new custom textures.

Area51 was made in 1997. Since you are the Super Moderator, let me ask to what extent this forum will go to censor the use of textures of chainlink fences, since it could be argued that, because of the clause, any texture of a chainlink fence could be based on the texture in this pwad.

Maybe this should be spelled out in more detail. I would not want to be accused of promoting the use of textures which are to be considered as prohibited.

As for Leon, should you want to use the texture as is, you could send an email to Keith and ask for permission.

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Kappes Buur said:

but it does not mention anything about not modifying the textures to become new custom textures.


Which means permission hasn't been given to do that either..

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Kappes Buur said:

Concerning these custom textures, the clause prohibits the use of such textures, but it does not mention anything about not modifying the textures to become new custom textures.

Given that many of Area51's custom textures are modified IWAD resources, the author would be on shaky ground in attempting to prohibit their re-use. As for the rest (based on my limited understanding of how copyright works) - if permission to modify hasn't been explicitly granted, you should assume it's denied.

In any case, I think Leon's after a chain fence that looks more like this -

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Kappes Buur said:

it could be argued that, because of the clause, any texture of a chainlink fence could be based on the texture in this pwad.

It's really not so complicated. If it is based on a resource that did not give permission to be used in this way, then it is not OK. If it is made from scratch, or based on a resource for which permission was granted, then it is OK. This isn't rocket surgery, you know.

GreyGhost said:

Given that many of Area51's custom textures are modified IWAD resources, the author would be on shaky ground in attempting to prohibit their re-use.

The EULA is generally considered to allow the use of modified iwad resources in projects that require that same iwad to work. The modifications you make to iwad resources are your own copyright, and you are free to license them as you see fit, provided it doesn't conflict with the existing license. So other people aren't necessarily free to use your modified resources, but they can of course make their own modified versions of iwad resources.

An analogy: Suppose I make an illustrated version of the Bible. The illustrations are my copyright, and people won't be able to copy (or modify and publish) my illustrated edition without my permission. But clearly I don't have any control over what they do with the bible text itself. Copyright can be layered in this way.

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Grazza said:

Uh, I think you've misunderstood something there. Permission is not granted for them to be used in that way.

Not even as inspiration [to draw new fences mind you]? Hahahaha

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He referred to modifying them, not using them as inspiration. You might want to read posts before responding to them. (Split from the chainlink fence thread, since this stuff isn't really helping solve the guy's problem.)

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Alright, I understand everything now. The EULA itself allowing distributing IWAD-requiring modified resources is excellent, because it means that most of the Doom mod authors will be protected by it when (if) copyright police becomes common-place. The Heretic<->Doom mods will be at stake, but maybe then people will

a) either start using Freedoom and Blasphemer resources (IF REALLY ALLOWED) in mods, settling at that

b) really attempt to draw new monster types, as medieval wizards/golems or devils and marines.

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Grazza said:

He referred to modifying them, not using them as inspiration.

And therein lies my dilemma.

So you see a texture, which the author is protective about, and modify it. Does that not imply in itself that you drew inspiration from the original ?

Where do you draw the line ?

The copyright issue is a very slippery slope in industry, where sometimes millions of dollars are at stake. A simple modification is made to ones design and the competitor can place it safely unto the market. However, in the design of doom maps, where the only item in question is the map constructor's ego, how far does one go before the modified texture becomes an original itself ?

For example, the Area51 chainlink fence has an integrated post. Changing the appearance of that post to ashwall, is that not enough of a change to make the modified texture an original ? Resizing the mesh of the fence and doing a recolour, does that make it original enough ? After all, the inspiration is the texture from Area51.

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You know, it would have taken a lot less hassle to just make your own texture instead of trying to come up with all these cockamamie workarounds and moral questions to justify stealing someone else's work.

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Kappes Buur said:

how far does one go before the modified texture becomes an original itself?

Never. If you use something as the base for your work, then what you create is always a derivative work. The only thing is that if you modify it enough, it might be very hard for someone else to demonstrate that this is what you have done. It doesn't change the facts though.

Describing modifying something as "drawing inspiration from it" is a dishonest use of language. You have done much more than draw inspiration: you have also used it instead of creating something from scratch yourself. If you have simply drawn inspiration, then you have taken a look at something, formed your own ideas as a result, and then made something yourself using those ideas.

I don't understand why you're pursuing this, as the distinction really is rather clear. I can only imagine you are trying to post-rationalize something you have already done. Edit: Haha, Essel got in first with a rather more direct wording of this point! I guess he has something specific in mind.

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Grazza said:

It doesn't change the facts though.

Well, as long as no-one can prove... ;) [note that I don't even import permitted textures in my works, see paragraph below]

Edit: Haha, Essel got in first with a rather more direct wording of this point! I guess he has something specific in mind.

Well, essel seems to particularly dislike ripping off textures, but I agree with him, considering that textures are the easiest to learn to make by yourself and you can use a free tool as well. I can make a picket fence by cut-pasting bits from WOOD1 and lighting/darkening them appropriately to give the illusion of shadow. Easy as fuck.

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