Raven ruined Quake 2 legacy

IMO Raven ruined Quake 2 legacy with their stupid additions. I really hate their vision of the universe.

Jut look at Quake 4. Stroggos looks so bland in Q4. Quake II version is much cooler with dark red skies and rusty military bases. Every single weapon in Q2 looks bulky and cool id style. Q4 weapon designs are very generic. Strogg in Q2 are barbaric cyborg race with really rough appearance. In Q4 they are too sleek and have some highbrow nano tech that looks really out of place. They don't look like Strogg anymore. And Makron in Q2 was a funny guy that's 100x time cooler than his Q4 incarnation. Q2 was rust and blood. Q4 is generic and generic. Killzone 2's enemy planet (Helghan) is what Stroggos with modern graphics should look like.

At least Raven got Wolfenstein right. It's not nearly as good as RTCW, but still is nice enough.

Orchid87 said:Every single weapon in Q2 looks bulky and cool id style. Q4 weapon designs are very generic.

Kind of how Doom 3's weapons are very Doom style, right?

Marcaek said:

Kind of how Doom 3's weapons are very Doom style, right?

What does that have to do with anything?

I personally really like Quake 4, think it's better than Quake 2 which didn't really have a major legacy to begin with. And Quake 4 isn't rusty? It's pretty rusty and bloody to me, Quake 2 just had pretty meh graphics, even for its time. Makron in Q4 is a totally different one than Q2, not an incarnation. That's like saying Obama is an incarnation of Bush. Only thing about Q2 is that it had a better soundtrack just because I'm a Metalhead, but even still Q4 had a great score as well. Neither game is really that amazing.

I can't say I was very impressed with Quake 4. The Strogg environents look very similar to the human ones in most cases, and the gameplay is boring. It feels like Doom 3, which was also boring.

IMO, iD ruined Quake first, then later faltered in properly demonstrating their own iD Tech 4 engine. Raven came along and made both fun.

Quake 4< Quake 2< Quake 1.

Also, Quake 1< Doom.

I enjoyed Quake 4 and think they did decent job with it, tho I definitely prefer Quake 2, that's for damned sure. As for Raven's Wolfenstein, I haven't played that and probably never will as I really don't like checkpoint save systems. Meh.

Q4's look is pretty damn generic, I agree. Raven just sucks at that sometimes.

Quake 4 == Doom 3, IMO. Fun for a playthrough or two, but not much lasting appeal.

I'm biased re: Quake 2, though. It was my first great love (before Doom).

I'm pretty sure Q2's only legacy is deathmatch, and whoever prefers it over Q3 still plays it. So there you go.

Bucket said:

I'm pretty sure Q2's only legacy is deathmatch, and whoever prefers it over Q3 still plays it. So there you go.

From a multiplayer standpoint:
Quake 1: insanely fast-paced
Quake 2: too slow-paced
Quake 3: the perfect balance between the two

So naturally, anybody who is interested strictly in Quake multiplayer WILL go with Q3. That is, if they have hardware 3D acceleration, because Q3 doesn't have a software renderer.

Quake 4 had a enjoyable single-player campaign that is superior to Quake 2.

Doom Marine said:

Quake 4 had a enjoyable single-player campaign that is superior to Quake 2.

Of course. There's a 10 year difference between the two games.

[PROTOTYPE] said:
So naturally, anybody who is interested strictly in Quake multiplayer WILL go with Q3.

You say that as if it's empirical fact. It isn't.

I was disappointed Q4 never got an expansion, at least Doom 3 did. Was there even any decent SP maps made for it? Must look now...

Bucket said:

You say that as if it's empirical fact. It isn't.

Well you aren't psychic like he is.

I was disappointed Q4 never got an expansion, at least Doom 3 did. Was there even any decent SP maps made for it? Must look now...

Sadly, the art of making SP levels for new games died after HL2 came out. :( Good luck finding any period.

Aliotroph? said:

It feels like Doom 3, which was also boring.

Doom 3 has some really great designs. It doesn't look generic at all.

Pinky


Marines


Commandos


Some UAC tech

IMO Doom 3 had some japanese cyberpunk influences. Just look at those stylish marine helmets. Hell, even toilets look cool!

I have to agree. I love the monster designs of Doom 3. I'll even say my least favorites are the ones that stick close to the originals.

Doom 3 had great artwork and sound design, but it's boring, dark gameplay ruined it's re-play value.

Orchid87 said:

Doom 3 has some really great designs. It doesn't look generic at all.

Pinky


Marines


Commandos


Some UAC tech

IMO Doom 3 had some japanese cyberpunk influences. Just look at those stylish marine helmets. Hell, even toilets look cool!

Yes, it has pretty things in it. It's still no fun to play.

I could never really get into Quake 2. I liked the concept of running around a hub base, performing tasks that effected other maps, but I just didn't find it all that enjoyable for some reason. Despite being an utter mishmash-mess of themes, Quake 1's gameplay just felt a lot more satisfying. The fast paced killing just made it really fun, and I felt satisfaction from the weapons and combat (not gonna lie, even more than Doom's gameplay).

If only Quake 2 could've kept that feel. Quake 2's combat felt tedious and just not as fun. Quake 1's combat with Quake 2's puzzle-based hubs would've made for a very interesting game. Granted, I don't really like Quake 2's level layouts, even if the hub concept was a good idea.

Several months ago I went back and replayed doom 3 and doom 3 ROE on nightmare difficulty, with the rule that you may only use autosaves (so basically, start a map over if you die.) Suddenly, the game felt really engaging. Sure it may be a different game from the classic doom games, but I still think it is a great game on its own.

I also tried the same thing with Quake 4, but for some reason it didn't work out with this game. Though I enjoyed the game the first time I played it years ago, it just couldn't hold my attention for a replay past the first level.

Orchid87 said:

[IMAGE]
Marines

I never liked the marine helmet design in Doom 3 but the helmet in the expansion looked alright I guess.

Orchid87 said:

Some UAC tech

IMO Doom 3 had some japanese cyberpunk influences. Just look at those stylish marine helmets. Hell, even toilets look cool!

I believe that design style was carried over into Prey? Awesome anyway. Doom 1 and 2 lack that because they're just unable to render so much 3d detail.

Orchid87 said:

http://www.megaplay.ru/attachments/image/jpeg/000/003/248/doom3_big2.jpg
Pinky

I still wonder why this was taken out in the final version, but remained in the you-know-what version.

http://www.nextdimension.org/other/doom3/marine2.jpg
Marines

In the past, I wasn't happy Doom Guy didn't get a helmet, but now, I'm glad he didn't get to wear this kind of helmet (a certain Doom³ ­­mod lets him have the option to do so); looking at it now, it looks kind of meh IMHO. :|

On the topic of Quake 2's legacy. ETQW was fucking pimp.
And it actually based it's strogg design off of the seminal Quake 2 design.

http://images.totalgamingnetwork.com/images/aggressor_hyperblaster-1600x1200.jpg

http://images.totalgamingnetwork.com/images/strogg-wallpaper-1600x1200.jpg

http://images.totalgamingnetwork.com/images/technician_1600x1200.jpg

http://etqw.geezergaming.com/newbies/images/icarus.jpg

http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetquake.gamespy.com/images/etqw/strogg/tormentor.png

http://etqw.geezergaming.com/newbies/images/slipgate7.jpg

printz said:

Doom 1 and 2 lack that because they're just unable to render so much 3d detail.

That, and they were going for an entirely different style anyway.

HavoX said:

I still wonder why this was taken out in the final version, but remained in the you-know-what version.

Probably because that scene was made specifically to impress audiences seeing the game for the first time, and not really as a proper introduction for the enemy. Besides that, it was more about how the pinkies zombified corpses than it was about the pinkies exclusively.

kristus said:

On the topic of Quake 2's legacy. ETQW was fucking pimp.
And it actually based it's strogg design off of the seminal Quake 2 design.

Agree. Thankfully it was made not by Raven.

As much as I agree with the OP in general, there's a few Strogg designs in Quake 4 that I quite liked. I'm too lazy to go searching for images though.

I never played ETQW but I loved the art direction and some of the pictures really got the idea across of what it would be like for humans to face an enemy like the Strogg.

For the record, I quite enjoyed Q4 but I thought that the main central plot hook and centre-point to the hype of "to beat the enemy you must become one of them" was too underplayed and disappointingly seen through after the initial change (in many occasions it amounted to little more than getting a keycard - ie, now that you have Strogg bio-implants you can walk through their forcefields) even if the stroggification cutscene was quite cool. I thought that Q4 was far more enjoyable than Doom 3 though. Far more. And it's not that good.