Mac got fux0r3d

Remember this?

Well...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17623422

Then again, from a technical standpoint, this wasn't a weakness in MacOS itself: it came from Java (the vulnerability had been patched for Wintel, but not for Mac...ouch...)

So?

I can't say I am surprised.
Even the most secure system is only as secure as its weakest link but that seems to be something the non-Windows users conveniently seem to ignore.

The reason they don't get targeted more often is just that their systems aren't used as much as Windows.

The Macs have been Doomed!!

Yeah, I mean, this is nothing like when you could get root access to a Linux box by exploiting a stack overflow in SSH... oh wait it's just like that :P :P :P

No system will ever be immune from hacking, and security through obscurity works just as poorly from the POV of being less used as it does from the POV of trying to hide your implementation. Eventually somebody will find an incentive for breaking into a system even if only a few targets use it - especially if some or even just one of those targets is perceived as high value.

Graf Zahl said:

The reason they don't get targeted more often is just that their systems aren't used as much as Windows.

Just you wait. With HTML5 and Web 3.0, trojans and viruses won't be hampered by inconveniences such as "different OSes" and "different hardware" anymore ;-)

And this incident was quite close to exactly that: it relied on a vulnerability present in all versions of a software, which was designed to execute platform-independent code (Java).

Between Java, Flash, and AJAX, the underlying hardware is more and more becoming irrelevant. The Internet browser is effectively becoming the operating system, people run their apps from a remote server and store their documents on a nebulous "cloud".

That means that malware creator do not have to target Windows or another OS specifically. They can target vulnerabilities in one of the existing and widespread virtual machines, and infect computers regardless of their real architecture.

Except Windows PC users are accustomed to malware and they have various protective countermeasures; whereas Mac users believe that smugness is enough to protect them.

...and maybe one day, the situation will be reversed: so much malware will be created for "The Cloud", that reverting to a traditional, "binary blob" standalone platform with super-efficient binary apps and a totally obscure API will actually be safer, at least for a while.

YES BUT A LONG TIME AGO WINDOWS WAS VULNERABLE TO WORMS THAT REQUIRE NO USER INTERACTION BECAUSE KERNELS AND SUCH, THEREFORE MAC IS SUPERIOR FOREVER

(also wrong forum)

Yeah, I should have posted this in Everything Else....

Still, IMO, the situation with IT will eventually become cyclical: as of now it's all about the "Cloud" and "Ubiquitous Computing", but someday someone's gonna wake up and realize that running everything in a VM which runs in a browser which runs on a managed API which runs on a regular OS is a bad idea, and the trend will reverse towards powerful, largely autonomous devices, even if temporarily. Because soon after, someone will debate how safer it is to have data distributed on remove servers, rather than e.g. on a small piece of crystal that contains the memories of several lifetimes, and the cycle will begin again...

Smug little assholes...serves 'em right.

Vordakk said:

Smug little assholes...serves 'em right.

For once, I strongly agree with Vordakk. :P

Bound to happen, I guess. I'll see if I can't find out if I've been infected.

This worm is quite clever. It wouldn't install on a machine it considered to belong to a "power user" eg one with Xcode or AV software installed. Neat!

Well I seem to be clean. I visit pornography sites unprotected, so infection is possible.

The problem with Macintosh malware is not that it exists, but that Apple scoffed at it, and when actual malware surfaced, denied it existed, and told users with the problem (via Applecare) to shove it.

Not cool.

Guess that means my Mac is safe for now. :p

I get a kick out of PC users who start making fun of me for using a Macbook if I complain about something not working. Eventually I turn it around to reveal Windows 7. Some of them can't figure out how I do that.

Technician said:

Well I seem to be clean. I visit pornography sites unprotected, so infection is possible.

A world where you actually have lower chances of infection by having ACTUAL sex is a world I don't want to live in.

He was talking about computer viruses and him visiting (probably shady) sites, not about how he's so lazy to meet real women :P

I don't understand why there's still a market for Macs, anyway. What's the appeal of OS X besides a neat looking interface?

The appeal is in the marketing. That, and they're not selling an OS. They're selling sexy hardware and some sexy apps. The OS is all shiny and hides details, but that's just part of the package.

My Macbook, even though it's one of the first ones and falling apart, has some nice design ideas. The multi-touch scrolling on the touchpad is still better than what most PC laptops have, and it works very nicely in Windows.

DoomUK said:

I don't understand why there's still a market for Macs, anyway. What's the appeal of OS X besides a neat looking interface?

UNIX

Aliotroph? said:

The multi-touch scrolling on the touchpad is still better than what most PC laptops have, and it works very nicely in Windows.

Yes, that's an important reason I'm still reluctant to buy regular laptops. Can their (non-macbook) mouses be reconfigured not to click on being tapped?

Mr. T said:

UNIX

That. If there ever was a consumer-friedly version of UNIX, that is Mac OS X.

The various Linux distros wouldn't cut it in this dept. for various reasons, not the least of which is that many primary administrative tasks such as installing programs require using the CLI (though that changed in the last year or so), and that most software is designed according to the infamous "Worse Is Better" philosophy.

On Mac OS X, most software is designed with a "for dummies" philosophy almost rivaling that of Windows self-installing .exes, and the operations where you really need the CLI are few and far between ever since the very fist version of Mac OS X, years ago.

DoomUK said:

I don't understand why there's still a market for Macs, anyway. What's the appeal of OS X besides a neat looking interface?

What Mr. T and Maes said, plus that some parts of the interface actually work differently than on other OSes I've used, and there are some system-wide niceties that get integrated into every program. A lot of it is stuff that's probably not immediately obvious in a casual comparison.

When I use Win7, I find lots of useful little things I'm used to from OS X conspicuously absent, like fully-functional drag and drop of files onto program icons on the taskbar/dock, dragging a file or folder onto a save/load dialog to immediately navigate the dialog to the containing folder, a keyboard shortcut to pop up a dictionary/thesaurus/encyclopedia bubble for any word or phrase in any program; and fully functional text dragging, not just inside pretty much every program *and* from basically any program to any other program.

In general there seems to be more consistency in user interface behavior from one program to the next, than I've found in most Windows apps I've used. If something works a certain way in one place, there's a good chance it'll work the same way everywhere.

There's also other things like the system-wide autosave functionality with versioning, now, so you don't need to go through the hassle of doing lots of Save As with a new name if you want to keep every version of the thesis paper you're editing.

DoomUK said:

I don't understand why there's still a market for Macs, anyway. What's the appeal of OS X besides a neat looking interface?

About 6 months ago I started a new job, and I had the option of either a Linux laptop or a MacBook, and I went with the MacBook. I've been using Linux almost exclusively for about 10 years now so it's kind of a big change for me. At the time I was slightly nervous that I might be making some kind of terrible mistake that I would end up regretting, but I can honestly say that I haven't regretted it at all.

The doubts I had about making the change were cushioned by the fact that my girlfriend switched from using a Windows laptop to a MacBook Pro about 4 years ago, so I've had quite a lot of opportunity to use her's for quite some time and I'm pretty comfortable with the system now. Also, I have a lot of very technically competent friends who, one-by-one, have almost all switched to Macs and not looked back. It's actually kind of weird to think about - if you'd told me in 2000, "in 10 years from now, all your friends will be Mac users", I'd have laughed. Back then, Macs were a kind of weird oddity - the sort of thing used in schools and by a certain stereotype - "arty" types who didn't understand anything technical.

In terms of the actual system, as Mr.T points out, it's a Unix system under the hood. That's a big deal for me - after using Linux for 10 years, I honestly can't imagine using an OS without a Unix command line available. Compared to Linux it's actually far more primitive - the biggest minus being the lack of apt-get and the Debian package repository (yes, I know that fink, etc. exists). But it's good enough that it's not a huge deal.

I find the actual interface of the system to be very well designed - more pleasant than Windows or any of the Linux environments I've used. I should clarify at this point that I'm just giving my personal opinion, so please don't lynch me for it. There's what I'd describe as a careful, attention to detail throughout the design of the system that I haven't seen in other systems that I've used. Apple design good interfaces, and that doesn't mean "lots of glitzy special effects", nor does it mean "dumbed down for non-technical novices".

Holy crap! It's a good thing I have a PC and that I have good protection like Malwarebytes Anti-Malware! I wonder how long the virus will last, and could every Mac computer in the world be infected with it if it gets too bad?

I lol'd, Macs exposed and PCs not?

printz said:

Yes, that's an important reason I'm still reluctant to buy regular laptops. Can their (non-macbook) mouses be reconfigured not to click on being tapped?

That's been a standard feature of laptop touchpads since the late 90s. Some people just can't effectively use tapping to click. I love tapping. Macbooks win again by using a multi-tap to right-click.

Aliotroph? said:

Macbooks win again by using a multi-tap to right-click.

Yeah, because non apple laptops hasn't been doing that for some 10 years now.

kristus said:

Yeah, because non apple laptops hasn't been doing that for some 10 years now.

I haven't encountered any that do most of this.