Mapping in zdoom format sucks, or is it just me?

I once decided to try mapping in zdoom format, since it's powerful, customizable, with scripts and so on. And I end up being quite disappointed...
In vanilla, if you want to make a basic door:
- you must lower a sector to floor
- you must set linedef action to 1
...and so on with every next one.
But in zdoom, if you want to make a basic door:
- you must lower a sector to floor
- you must set linedef action to "door raise"
- you must know how much tics is equivalent to a second
- you must set the speed of a door in tics (or units per tic? Or tics per unit? I dunno)
- you must know the speed of a basic door in... you know.
- you must set the delay of the door in tics.
- you must know the delay time of a basic door.

- you must select an activation type (player press use)
...and so on with every next one. Not my definition of fun. I finally started to think about mapping in boom format, then converting it to zdoom and adding necessary features (zdoom would be necessery in what I'm planning). But maybe this is stupid and there's some better way?

Info:

Basic Doom door:
- Speed = 16
- Time open = 150

Turbo Doom door:
- Speed = 64
- Time open = 150

Basic Doom platform:
- Speed = 32
- Time down = 105

Turbo Doom platform:
- Speed = 64
- Time down = 105

Perpetual Doom platform:
- Speed = 8
- Time of pause = 105

Basic Doom permanent floor:
- Speed = 8

Permanent floor raising from lava:
- Speed = 4

8-tall stairs:
- Speed = 2 (I think)

I found out these values by looking through a map converted with ZWADCONV.

It gives you more freedom, though, thats what I like about it. Yes, you have to take a couple more steps though.

That's great, but once again, doing that every time?

Maybe I'm lingering, because some people are making one room per hour and that's not a problem for them, but that's not my case. I'm fast and I often have little time to map (there was once a thread "imperfect hatred - post your 6 hour maps", so the people could check how can they map under limited time. Honestly, I would have a problem there, because I'm afraid I was never making a map for more than about four hours).

printz said:

I found out these values by looking through a map converted with ZWADCONV.

You can see all these speeds on the wiki, too.

Also, in the Doom Builder 2 configs I made a long while ago, I set the various specials to have the standard values in their drop-down.

DB2 actually has a feature to make doors. It's not working too well for Hexen/UDM format though: the activation type is not set to something sensible and that can't be changed through the config.

Pretty soon making maps in Doom will be like putting LEGOS together.

This isn't an issue with the format but with the way you author your maps. Yes there are more options to configure but you can't really complain about the repetition when the editor itself provides many ways to alleviate it, what with prefabs etc, etc...

You're complaining because you have more flexibility and choices? And like others have said, you can simply copy your door prefabs without having to re-do it every time. The workflow can actually be quite astonishingly fast, especially if you're making a "basic" doom map.

"With great power comes great..." nevermind. What I mean is more powerful formats/software/tools always involve greater complexity in order to handle the options available. The question is, do you really need all these extra features? If not, then yes, perhaps choose a different format.

It certainly doesn't suck, it just requires a little more effort because you're given so much more freedom. Rather than having one definitive "door," using the ZDoom format, you get to define how quickly every door opens and closes, how long they remain open before closing, exactly which keys they require (even multiple), and so forth. And it's really the same way for almost everything else - lifts, crushers, rising stairs, etc. You name it, you're given more freedom/choices with it.

Krispy said:

Pretty soon making maps in Doom will be like putting LEGOS together.

Like Quake?

Hiya.

Nick Perrin said:

You're complaining because you have more flexibility and choices? And like others have said, you can simply copy your door prefabs without having to re-do it every time. The workflow can actually be quite astonishingly fast, especially if you're making a "basic" doom map.

"With great power comes great..." nevermind. What I mean is more powerful formats/software/tools always involve greater complexity in order to handle the options available. The question is, do you really need all these extra features? If not, then yes, perhaps choose a different format.

I understand where he's coming from though. Besides, just because something has more flexibility doesn't mean it needs to be more complected or complex for 'simple, standard things' (like his example of making a door). It would be nice if the ZDOOM configs already had these 'fixed', but I'm sure one could go in and change/make their own "customebuilt.cfg" file to have everything done the way they want for their preferred game port.

That said, Prefabs are always an option (and one I find myself using more and more). It would just be nice if the generic "make door" function actually worked a bit more thoroughly for ZDoom/GZDoom etc.

^_^

Paul L Ming

Hmm... anyway, I think I'll stick to idea from my first map. Many possibilities don't have to mean harder creation, and Boom is a perfect example of that.

When you'll want to use some effect the Doom creators didn't think of, like maybe a crusher that's activated by shooting it or whatever, you'll find out that the à-la-carte Hexen specials aren't so bad.

I have improved the "make door" functionality in DB2. It now actually creates usable doors in Hexen and UDMF maps. So look for a new unofficial build of revision 1491, wherever it may show up.

Gez said:

When you'll want to use some effect the Doom creators didn't think of, like maybe a crusher that's activated by shooting it or whatever, you'll find out that the à-la-carte Hexen specials aren't so bad.

Boom has one IIRC.

Also, this lazy attitude isn't good.

tempun said:

Boom has one IIRC.

Boom's generalized linedefs aren't all that easy either. It's basically the same thing as Hexen, except you combine all the arguments together to make a single value.

I recently started workig with the doom in hexen format and I can't say I find it slow. Nothing is really slow after spending I don't know how many hours using Doomcad way back, when I started mapping. I think even if you do find the ZDoom format slow, with practice you'll get used to it. Also what has already been said with teh door prefabs...