So the Skulltag forums have been down for a while now...

Carnevil said:

I was able to get everything patched up and with the help of the forum's lead admin, Cyber, we were able to get everything up and running just fine again.
... and then the staff members all decided to leave and make a new site. That's why the forums are down for good. So, good luck to them.

Leaving something out?

Mogul said:
*anything*

You're a goof.

Anyways, things are going through smoothly, I don't know when it'll be ready but who knows, maybe tomorrow

Most retarded derail ever.. Unless there's worse. D:

I freely hurl abuse toward geo, violator, and soda because of their consistently awful post history. It is not an indication in this case that I feel like I am fucking up in an argument. Probably half of my points weren't even addressed and the other half were misinterpretted or read from such an obtuse perspective that I couldn't illustrate nuance well enough. If I badly fucked up on something, it was overestimating the reading comprehension skills of the average video game forum-goer. You can always tell you're dealing with a champ on dw when their register date was either d3ish or worst case, 2010-12. I means you're more than likely trying have a discussion with a fucking 17 year old or some cunt in their sophomore year of college. There's no place for nuance or intricacy there. It's all "lol urr dumb" and just flat assertions with horrible supporting thought or most often, no supporting thought. For some excellent examples, just take five minutes and read through the "what would you change in d3" thread. It is astounding.

Carnevil said:

... and then the staff members all decided to leave and make a new site.

I warned you that this would happen months ago if you refused to give anyone else enough access to maintain the forums.

AlexMax said:

I warned you that this would happen months ago if you refused to give anyone else enough access to maintain the forums.

I gave into all of their demands, we had an agreement, and they decided to do their thing anyway in the most inconvenient time possible for me.

Mogul said:

For some excellent examples, just take five minutes and read through the "what would you change in d3" thread. It is astounding.

As much as you may dislike me, I have to agree. The requirements were to have realistic changes to the game. That meant having tweaks that were realistically obtainable, not changing the very foundation of the game. All they posted was a bunch of poorly thought out shit on their ideal game with horrible blending of incompatible ideas, not what would actually make the game any good.

Anyway, since you think my posts are so bad, are there any pointers of what specifically I should avoid to make my posts in the future better?

The only "advice" I would give anyone about how to not be horrible at posting is just to carefully qualify what you're attempting to say. That's at least true if you're in a thread where your position might require a little finesse. I have made some awful posts. Most of them were made when I was in high school.

Under the veil of anonymity, it's easy to shitpost. Doubly true when you're a teenager. Shitpost, meaning, geo-style.

I hope Zandronum will continue by using up-to-date ZDoom features, so they can be available in multiplayer as well as single player.

Mogul said:

I freely hurl abuse toward geo, violator, and soda because of their consistently awful post history.

Well, in that case you're very much fair game, as all we've seen in this thread from you is a combination of self-righteous indignation, bullshit and a POV that's so far up your own arse, your teeth are in the way.

I've not seen a single person agree with you in this entire >50%-of-the-thread derail and I've also not seen you post anything of value. It's just been brainless rant after brainless rant. You seem to genuinely believe in your argument and are clearly convinced that it has some sort of leg to stand on.

However what your entire argument appears to hinge on is the idea of a social contract making ST's chosen naming convention for it's Doom2-IWAD-requiring maps an original sin. That "social" part would appear to be made up of people (unless you fancy changing the definition of that?) and all of the people concerned (i.e. this community) thus far have chimed in to say you must be trolling; you're the cunt; everything you're saying is pointless or all of the above.

As has been pointed out this thread had precisely fuck-all to do with the rants you've been going on and yet you feel you're the one who should be showing people the door and, indeed, have some moral high ground on this forum. Well congratulations you absolute dick, you've trolled us all masterfully.

He's either a troll or has a head full of mad, probably best to ignore before this goes way off-topic. :P

Anyway maybe it is best that the Skulltag forums start over fresh? I used to post there often a few years ago and it had a much nicer atmosphere, but seems to have descended into petty drama recently :/

Mogul said:

I freely hurl abuse toward geo, violator, and soda because of their consistently awful post history.

I could say something along the lines of "imitation being the sincerest form of flattery", but that would be crass. Why hurl abuse? It contributes nothing to the discussion and is probably dragging your own posting reputation down to the level of the members you're denigrating.

It is not an indication in this case that I feel like I am fucking up in an argument.

Maybe I'm a little old-fashioned in that regard, there was a time when attacking your opponent instead of their argument was a sure sign you're losing, not that I think you have a particularly strong argument this time around. I don't see anything particularly pretentious or "almost official" in Skulltag's map naming conventions, it looks to me like an attempt to eliminate confusion by using more descriptive and fairly unambiguous names.

Phobus said:

brainless rant after brainless rant.

I clearly haven't thought any of this through and I have not been able to defend my opinion! It's clearly brainless!

That "social" part would appear to be made up of people... (i.e. this community)

All it takes are people that see that it's not my place to make something called Pulp Fiction 2 for my case to have substance. To me, it's very clear that you're a pretentious cunt if you have the audacity to hijack an official naming scheme and use it on your project.

You're free to disagree, of course. I'm not concerned with the opinion of the majority of posters in this thread -- they're welcome to have their own opinions. It would be nice if more than, say, one of them could actually defend their opinion.

As has been pointed out this thread had precisely fuck-all to do with the rants you've been going on

Someone posted about ways that Skulltag is a piece of shit. I added to the pile that their naming convention was grossly unrepresentative of what the project actually is. Somebody took issue with that, then I explained my position. And here we are. If you want to blame somebody for talking about aspects of Skulltag in a thread about the Skulltag forums and whine like it's a derailing akin to going on page after page of discussing Apartheid in a Trayvon thread, that's your prerogative, but it doesn't affect my opinion in the slightest, and I think it makes you as petty and trivial as you're trying to paint me.

Also, GreyGhost: You don't have to re-articulate your stance on name-calling. You're not wrong, in a general sense. In this particular instance I have specific reasons for being short with particular posters.

But, if you want to stay true to what you're saying, you might ought to try hoisting your brand of judgment on any of the posters in this thread that have contributed with their "lol ur dumb!!!!!" posts. My detractors are numerous in their name-calling posts.

The main topic is still trying to be derailed.

Mogul said:

It would be nice if more than, say, one of them could actually defend their opinion.

How about yourself? How can you back up such a stupid sentiment? The burden of proof is on you to back up such a nonsensical opinion.

Not that I really care anyway, since all you're doing is acting like an asshat and calling everyone else stupid.

On the contrary, posters like yourself are calling me an idiot and aren't making their own cases. I think I have seen one or two posts on the opposite position of mine that actually have substance.

As for asking me to defend my position, as if I haven't been this entire time, I don't even know what to say. It seems rhetorical to ask if you read any of my posts, but you can't honestly be so stupid as to have read them and not come away with my rationale, regardless of whether you agree with it. Unreal.

Mogul said:

posters like yourself are calling me an idiot

Wrong. I have never once called you an idiot in this thread. I have called your opinion stupid and absurd, but didn't really comment on you directly. You, on the other hand, have called me a mongoloid, and have called Xaser a cunt. You're the far more insulting one.

Mogul said:

posters like yourself ... aren't making their own cases.

We don't have to make a case, you do. I can see what your attitude is, and I can kinda see where you're coming from, but the thing is, if you look at it analytically, there's absolutely no rational or truly logical reasons behind thinking it's "douchey" to use another game's map naming convention.

Besides, it's not in the slightest posing to be semi/psuedo-official, it's only stating which IWAD you need to use for it to work.

Carnevil said:

... and then the staff members all decided to leave and make a new site. That's why the forums are down for good. So, good luck to them.

So that's it for the forums and there are no plans for future ones?

tl;dr autism general discussion

Sodaholic said:
Wrong. I have never once called you an idiot in this thread.

Ha! You summing up an entire post of mine as "derp" is supposed to be interpreted by me as something other than you calling me an idiot? Alright, I'll accept that, via your distinction between "you are retarded" and "your case is retarded." Even if you get off free via this technicality, there are others that have posted absolutely baseless criticisms of either myself or my idea here. The "gigantic hypocrite" post comes to mind. I mean, really.

We don't have to make a case, you do.

And I did. And then it's on you to tear that case down, and you haven't. If you disagree -- FINE -- but I am saying my points have to be deconstructed, and I have literally seen one or two serious attempts at that. The rest of the posts are the "lol ur dumb" kind, and that doesn't address my specific points at all.

if you look at it analytically, there's absolutely no rational or truly logical reasons.

What else can I say? I disagree. And I think I have made a a very logical case.

it's only stating which IWAD you need to use for it to work.

Is this honestly the reason why "d2" was chosen as the prefix?

Marnetmar said:

tl;dr autism general discussion

lol :)

This argument is awfully "pretentious"

I agree, in that as these things draw out, they seem to become more and more petty, and one's stance begins to seem more and more indignant and grow in pretentiousness. Pretentiousness is not contingent on the validity of an argument, however.

Mogul, do you realize that nobody here agrees with you? Okay, maybe Xaser's E5 was a little obnoxiously named, but it's a really small problem that I forgot about almost immediately after I first heard it. However, saying that something infringes on someone's intellectual property just because of a file name or map naming system is complete ridiculous.


OH NO I AM A CUNT!!!

If you concede that Xaser's E5 is "a little obnoxiously named" then you see my point. The severity of offense varies from person to person.

And you mis-characterize my point when you talk about infringing on intellectual property. That's legal language, and this is not a legal issue.

edit: And yes, if you were pretentious enough to actually work on a project that you took seriously and were so audacious that you took up id's mantle and named it "Doom 5" then you would certainly be a cunt.

Edit2: I am finished talking about this. :)

If I had known how controversial the naming scheme was, I could have changed it in 10 seconds. The old data pack is still out there, so it might still be changed. But there are compelling arguments for both sides, so I don't know.

Carnevil said:

I gave into all of their demands, we had an agreement, and they decided to do their thing anyway in the most inconvenient time possible for me.

I'm sorry that it was so inconvenient, and I feel that you are owed an explanation. You have to realize that the fork movement was not a monolithic group with a single agenda: there were many people in it with competing ideals. Among them were a few who were determined to split no matter what, and were afraid that you might actually cave into their demands, preventing the fork. I do not believe that anyone made a conscious effort to sabotage the process, and Torr's being unable to participate throughout much of the process was probably just bad timing. But the result was that as a whole, the group had extremely short patience. I tried to grease the wheels turning in the other direction, but you told me off so harshly that I was afraid to touch it again for fear of spoiling any chance we had to stay where we were.

In short, there was a little more than that going on behind the scenes. Things could have gone better. But what's done is done, and now we'll just have to make the best of it.

But Carnevil you've got more time for Wrack now. Isn't that a good thing? I don't know I'm not much knowledgeable about what's going on over there.

As for Skulltag, I can see where people come from who want to do some classic Doom DM and can't. I find it very hard to find servers that will do that. But I love the newfangled stuff like AOW. That's what I've played it for, and I hope this new fork will bring more of that fancy stuff.

As for the D2DM1 stuff, I think it's more a matter of how you perceive Skulltag. Many people around here tend to look down on Skulltag but to many outside of Doomworld Skulltag is much respected and those maps may as well be the official Doom 2 deathmatch levels. I'm fine with that. I kind of feel that way myself.

sup skulltag buddy

It's really not that controversial. Mogul for some reason has decided to infer an aura of officialism from an honestly ambiguous prefix system.

On another not sure there are quite a few people who play ST for mods like AOW, ZH, GvH etc, but there are still plenty DM being player on wads like the UDM series, a fair bit of ZD-style CTF, and oldschool dueling thanks to the (excellent) Duel32 project.

Mogul, do you realize that nobody here agrees with you?

I find myself agreeing with him now. He's certainly bringing a lot more substance to his argument than anyone who's been against him so far.

Huh. Didn't expect to see Lost Episode referenced in a thread about Skulltag events. Threw me for a loop there. :P