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purist

OUYA - New Kickstarted Console

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purist said:

So people do take notice of sodaposts... Uh oh :-p


If they did, then it would be based on a netbook with a single-core Atom processor and running a stripped-down version of Windows XP ;-)

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I'd be surprised if the status quo don't try to stop it somehow. (particularly when the inventor claims "licensing, publishing and retail fees are a thing of the past")

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Basing it on Android (aka an OS which is alien to the current state-of-the-art in game development) will go a long way towards giving it a slow start and underwhelming performance, compared to its mainstream competitors. The availability of software will be the other major hindrance. I just hope this is not an "N-GAGE, Mark 2" type of project.

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Maes said:

I just hope this is not an "N-GAGE, Mark 2" type of project.

It probably will be. IBM-compatible (or similar) hardware's a much better idea. Why not have it be something like the Raspberry Pi?

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Maes said:

Basing it on Android (aka an OS which is alien to the current state-of-the-art in game development) will go a long way towards giving it a slow start and underwhelming performance, compared to its mainstream competitors. The availability of software will be the other major hindrance. I just hope this is not an "N-GAGE, Mark 2" type of project.


Tegra3+ICS is far from underwhelming for the kind of games I imagine will be made for this. It's even sufficient for dudebro shit like Infinity Blade. You're forgetting that this machine's mainstream competitors are 5+ years old and still sell for $300.

Sodaholic said:

It probably will be. IBM-compatible (or similar) hardware's a much better idea. Why not have it be something like the Raspberry Pi?


Why do I feel like I'm being trolled?!

...Vera! Get me my aspirin!

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Sodaholic said:
Why not have it be something like the Raspberry Pi?

'Cause the proposed hardware for the OUYA has a processor with three more cores clocked twice as fast and four times the memory as the Raspberry Pi. And it comes with a case. Plus it doesn't seem likely that the Pi will ever run Android...

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Mr. T said:

Tegra3+ICS is far from underwhelming for the kind of games I imagine will be made for this.


The CPU alone means little by itself, if the OS has to compete with OS-less games coded in C/C++ and raw assembler and DSP code such as those seen on dedicated consoles, created with hyper-optimized development kits and on "guaranteed stable" hardware.

What you mention as a weakness (them being 5+ old) is actually their strength, because the hardware is 1) overengineered to begin with (hence the high price) and b) kept "frozen" for a decade, to that a know-how of optimization is built up.

Unless the OUYA goes for a "fixed hardware - fixed OS - no compatibles or near compatibles to worry about" approach, then it can't beat them in this field. Otherwise, a bunch of "compatible" clones with inferior performance will flood the market (hell, people will start modding existing Android phones) and that will also drive the minimum common denominator of how complex stuff can be coded in a "safe" way, way, way down.

Sodaholic said:

Why not have it be something like the Raspberry Pi?


So it will be exactly like the hardware of a budget Android phone?

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I have a better idea: Plug your PC into a TV and buy a gamepad. Saves you some money, too.

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Maes said:

The CPU alone means little by itself, if the OS has to compete with OS-less games coded in C/C++ and raw assembler and DSP code such as those seen on dedicated consoles, created with hyper-optimized development kits and on "guaranteed stable" hardware.


I wouldn't consider any of the current consoles (or even 2012 PC games) CPU-bound, infact your comment is quite misleading because their main issue is lack of RAM (512MB shared RAM on the 360, vs 1GB in $99 OUYA.)

The Tegra3 itself compares favorably to the A5X in this years iPad, the latter of which can play "console" games like Sky Bandits at 2048x1536 without a problem. So I don't think the HW/OS combo presents much of a problem at all.

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Mr. T said:

512MB shared RAM on the 360, vs 1GB in $99 OUYA.


With the overheads of the Android OS, that amount of RAM is effectively halved, and CPU overheads for managed applications. BTW, are games going to be implemented in Java/Dalvik? Because if they end up bypassing it entirely in favor of a traditional C/C++ environment then whatever benefits of the Android platform are rendered moot, and you've got yourself yet another ARM-based linux-based console.

And we know how successful those have proven so far.

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I think it's pretty much inevitable that consoles will cease to exist in their traditional form and merge with phone/tablet standards. This product will probably be one of those that's too ahead of its time, like the Dreamcast.

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Just like traditional consoles were to be replaced by PCs or, the opposite, PCs by game consoles, and both of them by set-top boxes that connected directly to the internet? Or how mobile phones would replace all three, and there would be no distinction between TV, Radio and Internet anymore?

That's the famous "digital convergence" story. Heard it in various sauces in the last 20 years, and we all know the result: dedicated PCs, dedicated consoles and dedicated mobiles continue to be built and sold. "WebTV"-like products never took off, and traditional radio and TV continue to broadcast (even if enhanced by digital standards, which BTW pretty much failed for plain radio).

You coooooould say that smartphones/tablets are the only partially true part of those stories, and indeed try to do a bit of everything. The problem is that they are not partcularly good or well suited for any of the particular tasks they are capable of doing. Serious work will continue being done in offices on desktop PCs, serious gaming will continue to be done on dedicated rigs and coneoles, and TV will, well, continue to be watched in front of a big-ass TV :-p

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You see Microsoft and Sony (especially Microsoft) trying to push their consoles as universal media/entertainment centers rather than dedicated game machines. They're also probably not keen on the idea of always spending tons of money on state of the art specs each cycle, which is likely why this generation has dragged on longer than usual as they want to see a return on their investments. "Hardcore" gamers are increasingly regarded as a niche demographic no matter what platform you're on.

I think the next hardware put out by Sony and MS will likely be the last in the traditional sense. After that they'd probably prefer a diminished, more cost-effective tech jump to handheld media devices that can also stream the video output to a larger screen if wanted. Though that may be in 7-10 years and a lot can change in the smartphone status quo until then.

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Full convergence would require the "fusion" device to have all the abilities of each constituent devices. So, basically, what you'd get is a PC with an antenna. The PC already is the convergence of all other devices, because you can emulate or plug everything on it. Everything.

The market trend, on the other hand, is to restrict, control, and limit what people can do with their hardware. Dedicated game consoles let people play games and that is all. Smart phones let you run some apps, but there still is content control on the app cybervirtual e-marketplace thingies where you can get them.

The other reason why convergence doesn't really work is for practical reasons. A keyboard is still a lot faster than a pen (for people who know how to type, that is), so writing will still be more comfortable on a PC with a big-ass keyboard. You'll want some good screen real estate too, if you are watching movies, playing games, or working. Heck, many workstations now have two screens side-by-side; and they aren't old and dinky 800x600 thing either.

Now put all that in an ultra-tiny wristwatch phone. Yeah, there is a little bit of a problem here. Even if you imagine some sci-fi stuff like a hologram projector for a giant-ass screen out of thin air and the holographic keyboard, it will still be not as comfy as a dedicated workstation.

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I always found there's a more sinister side to those "converged" products: housing a proper "media center" with a proper component stereo, dvd player, vcr, consoles, big TV etc. requires having, well, an actual house with an actual living room. A serious PC does still require some space, even with CRT monitors out of the way etc.

Those "converged" products OTOH strike me as being marketed towards poor-ass, space-challenged people, which I guess are pretty much most of the working class youth of today. You can plug an antenna into a PC and watch TV, yes....but the only ones I know that do that are students that only have a tiny room in a dorm, and it's uncomparable with having your own true mancave.

Cramped products for cramped lives.

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Convenience is one thing. I don't mind having a Firecore that I can load up with Genesis ROMs or a Famiclone with 50 NES games preloaded ;-)

But having to use iProducts and web services as ersatz replacements for music/tv/video because the real thing would just be too expensive or too bulky to keep around due to lifestyle...that's just misery disguised as being "hip". I simply can't relate to that.

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I don't have high expectations for this console. Apart from a few free games, I don't feel that heavy, big name products will likely switch over since this console encourages "hacking" (Seriously, I doubt that 50% of the population can, or will, hack). Also, I highly doubt 1 USB port is sufficient for high-end modifying :P

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I don't understand the need for a console to be a PC. Can't people just hook up their PCs to their big screen? I do it all the time to watch movies and play games.

Oh and ONLIVE can corner this market and destroy them.

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geo said:

Oh and ONLIVE can corner this market and destroy them.

At least for people who have perfectly stable and very fast Internet connections.

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Yeah Onlive isn't exactly there yet. I hear the further away from a major city you are the more Onlive sucks. I don't have the most stable Internet connection, but I can still stream videos. Onlive is basically streaming a video to you of what you're playing.

Anyway.... Just spend $20 - $50 bux to hook up your laptop or PC to your TV and badabing. Maybe even spend money on a controller.

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