advice for a mapping newb

I've been playing doom for years but just recently decided to have a go at map making, and I'm curious about the general way people approach making a doom map...

Is it better to roughly build the whole thing and get it functional before going back and tarting it up? Or do you tend to finely craft each room before moving on to the next? Do you add the monsters as you go or finish the whole map before populating it? Would you play test it thouroughly before texturing and lighting, or concentrate on looks first and hope it all works afterwards?

I guess a lot of this is down to personal preference, but it would be handy to know if there are definite do's and dont's in doombuilder, stuff that makes it difficult to fix stuff later on for example.

I imagine this topic has been done to death over the years so apologies in advance for that.

Hi there!

I've been mapping for years, although I don't release many maps because I'm never satisfied with them. My method for mapping depends on my inspiration. Sometimes I can visualize the entire map in my head, so I'll scrap down a barebones layout before doing anything. Other times I'll move room by room. I put monsters/switches in last, as those are the easiest to deal with. In terms of map testing, I play with nomonsters on if testing switches, or god mode to gauge ammo.

Cool, cheers. I guessed it would vary from person to person, interesting to hear it can vary from map to map as well. I guess like any creative project sometimes you will have an idea of the whole thing before you start, and other times you need to just make something to find the inspiration.

Think I will fall into the latter category mostly. I do wonder how useful it is spending hours crafting a masterpiece of a room only to find it doesnt really play that well.

But hey, this is doom, just throw in enough monsters and it'll be fine, right?

I know some people will draw everything out first, and some will do it room by room.

Personally, I do it from room to room. I also tend to find middle ground for how far I go with styling/architecture before I move on. I usually am confident with my plans for the room and it's surroundings, so I usually go all the way and never revisit room again.

If you have no ideas, then do not worry. Just start drawing something, and the rest will come to you.

It's nice doing room by room in sequence, because you can focus easier on the progression of ammo/monsters/items for your map. You'll know as you progress room by room, how much items/monsters you need to add. Then you won't have to revisit these areas later on.

arkore said:

You'll know as you progress room by room, how much items/monsters you need to add. Then you won't have to revisit these areas later on.

I've found that it takes so long doing a room that I get impatient to move on to the next bit, so I figure I'll sort out the texture/alignments/lighting at a later point - but I'm probably giving myself more stuff to miss and forget..

The other problem I have is this being my first map, if it doesn't work out I might get discouraged from having another go - there's a kind of a rush to get it done so I can see quickly if its something I can do or not. Probably should try to keep things fairly simple for now.

I'll post some screen shots at some point.

mouldy said:

The other problem I have is this being my first map, if it doesn't work out I might get discouraged from having another go...

KISS principle -- Keep It Simple, Stupid.

I had a friend who was up for the idea of Doom modding (and followed a brief one-to-one tutorial I gave him on Doom Builder) but gave up when, and I quote, "all I can make is simple rooms".

You know what? They're all simple rooms. That's the beauty of the Doom engine in a way, that everything is plan-view. After a simple room is built, sectors can be added on for lights, windows, crates -- and each one risks cluttering up the player's available space, so it's better to start simple and work upward than the other way around.

Don't get discouraged. Some people, myself included, won't care if your level looks like something from 1994 as long as it plays well. And I'm sure you've got it in you to do that. ;)

CM just dropped some pearls before y'all; hope you realize that. KISS should be gospel for new mappers. Of which I consider myself one.

To Doomers who are making their first map(s) - don't try to make a 'project' out of it; you don't even know what looks good, or even works, yet! You haven't had the time to build a style, or even a technique. Focus on learning and practising in the beginning, and most of all don't hold in your mind's eye any kind of rigid ideal of what your map should be. If you have a vision for your map, make sure to update that vision as you learn new things. Otherwise, in the beginning, you'll just get frustrated. Get too frustrated, and you'll give up entirely.

So yes, the simpler the better: I.e. 'I want to make a level with a yellow key leading to the exit, and when you get the yellow key you are ambushed.' That's beautiful, right there - that's elegant. That's infinite possibility. See, when you leave yourself enough free concept space to work around with, you'll be ready to apply all the new stuff you'll learn! And the amount of stuff you'll learn just on your path to achieving this simple goal will more than make up for your plain ambitions.

It's alright to spend most of your first maps just learning things. My first few weeks with DB, I spent at least 30 minutes on research and testing for every 10 minutes of solid mapping.

Lastly, don't get attached, and don't get bogged down trying to make large levels. Start small; learn lots; then move on to the next map. This is what practice is about.

EDIT: heh, got a little preachy there; not sure what came over me. Anyway, in response to OP's question, I find that making featureless sectors -- with vague connections where the doors will be -- works best. This is also a great time to make use of the comment function to leave yourself some notes (e.g. "ambush here," "secret minigun," "dark maze w/ flashing lights," etc.).

This is all just personally speaking. What feels right for you, mouldy? [:

schwerpunk said:

This is all just personally speaking. What feels right for you, mouldy? [:

This is all great advice, thanks. I remember some advice someone else gave once about mapping: make your first map, then throw it away and make a better one.

I think I have a danger of getting too precious about my first project and getting frustrated when the masterpiece in my imagination ends up taking weeks to create. Think Comic is right, Simple is definitely the way to go for now.

And don't fret about spending weeks on a map; that's normal, for medium sized maps at least. I have a map that I worked on 4 months for, but then ditched because I was dissatisfied with it

BloodyAcid said:

And don't fret about spending weeks on a map; that's normal, for medium sized maps at least. I have a map that I worked on 4 months for, but then ditched because I was dissatisfied with it

Ouch.. I had a go mapping for left 4 dead a while back and ended up spending months making something so bad I gave up on it. Doom should be a fair bit quicker than that at least.

It all really depends on what your mapping, I'd start small 100 to 200 sectors but whatever your level size choice there is a good process to follow that will increase productivity.

- Outline your work space, usually 1 to 5 rooms in an area.
- Set ceiling floor heights
- Apply basic texture theme

If you do those three steps first your well on your way to complete the rest.

- Add in additional architecture and details
- Set ceiling floor heights
- Now your area should be pretty much done architecturally all you'll need to do is finish texturing.

- Revise and repeat the last three steps until you feel the area looks good

For large maps you'll want to do a good basic outline first this takes longer to set up and is additional steps before you even outline rooms.

i'm more or less new to mapping in Doom as well (though i have mapped in other games), so i'm probably not going to be that helpful.

but i'd say just make a simple room, run around in that room, add and subtract things to that room and see what you like, then gradually add some more rooms, just to get yourself comfortable. when you have a bit more of a familiarity with the editor, maybe you can start visualizing and drawing out on paper what kind of maps you want to make. i used to be very "go with the flow", but i think i'm more into planning and visualizing some kind of concept or idea behind a map (and changing what needs to be changed along the way) so i get results i'm happier with and feel more like they have a purpose. i think it depends on what works for you, though.

i also agree with the general philosophy of KISS. it's important to just focus on the core elements of a map before its drowned in unnecessary details. also not being afraid to throw things away is good advice. that's something i have a lot of problems with.

ComicMischief said:

I had a friend who was up for the idea of Doom modding (and followed a brief one-to-one tutorial I gave him on Doom Builder)

Aaaaaand, I just showed another friend the ins and outs. What can I say, a couple of them have seen what I've been up to and fancy a shot at it. ;)

Anyway, from this I have another snippet of advice: HAVE FUN WITH IT. Now I think about it, I can't stress this enough from my own experience -- if you're having a hard time with a map and it's a drag, whatever you do to it will be pretty uninspired and rubbish. Chill. Have fun, and the map will be fun.

cheers for all the tips folks. Here's a little screen shot of what I've been working on.



I'll let you know if I ever get it finished.

wow. pretty impressive for someone just starting out

I'm agreeing with Tango. Looks really cool so far :) ESPECIALLY for a first map !

Fuck, that's a sweet first map. Stylish, with a good aesthetic.

You are aligning those rocky textures, right? :)

ComicMischief said:

You are aligning those rocky textures, right? :)

haha! life is too short for that.

One thing i find a bit annoying in doombuilder is shifting the upper texture also moves the lower one, I don't know if thats just how it is or if i'm doing it wrong... Similarly I can't figure out how or if you can shift floor and ceiling textures. ah well.

thanks for the nice comments folks. I'll definitely keep at it.

mouldy said:

haha! life is too short for that.

The 'A' key (auto-align) in visual mode is your friend.

mouldy said:

One thing i find a bit annoying in doombuilder is shifting the upper texture also moves the lower one, I don't know if thats just how it is or if i'm doing it wrong...

That's because it's all the same linedef. Experimenting with upper/lower unpegs plus alignment can sometimes help out, but otherwise you may have to get creative.

mouldy said:

Similarly I can't figure out how or if you can shift floor and ceiling textures. ah well.

You can't. Just make sectors (like, for example, teleport pads) adhere to DoomBuilder's BLUE grid, the 64x64 one.

That looks really good, first map or not!

great shapes! one critique: the red stone on the left and right side walls feels extraneous to me, and like it takes away from the cooler-looking red stone embedded in the marble. and the square platforms to the left of the steps, while a cool idea, seem pretty out of place there. i'm sure you're just experimenting with different things at this point, though. and i am not one for lots of detail, anyway, so it might just be my taste.

ella guro said:

great shapes! one critique: the red stone on the left and right side walls feel extraneous to me, and like it takes away from the cooler-looking red stone in the marble. and the square platforms to the left of the steps, while a cool idea, seem pretty out of place there. i'm sure you're just experimenting at this point, though. and i am not one for hyper-detailed stuff, anyway, so it might just be my taste.

yeah i think those bits at the side stand out too much because of the lighting ,i might play about with that.

And cheers for the doombuilder tips CM

ComicMischief said:

You can't. Just make sectors (like, for example, teleport pads) adhere to DoomBuilder's BLUE grid, the 64x64 one.

I would say thats a bit dated. With the latest Doom Builder you can shift and scale the floor and ceilings all you like in the 'custom' tab.

You need to be using UDMF to do that.

I started mapping in Doom-in-Hexen format, but after switching to UDMF, I can't help but feel that it's the wave of the future. Are there any advantages to using other formats over it?

ella guro said:

one critique: the red stone on the left and right side walls feels extraneous to me, and like it takes away from the cooler-looking red stone embedded in the marble. and the square platforms to the left of the steps, while a cool idea, seem pretty out of place there

Just to give you an idea how people have different tastes mouldy, I really like the redrock on the sides and the square platforms. I think the redrock puts a nice hell ambiance in the level and the square platforms are a great juxtaposition to the winding staircase.

Great job though, keep it up! The difficult part isn't the mapping... it's getting the map finished.

schwerpunk said:

I started mapping in Doom-in-Hexen format, but after switching to UDMF, I can't help but feel that it's the wave of the future. Are there any advantages to using other formats over it?

Same here. I started out with Doom in Hexen format, but UDMF is *******ely the most advanced format.

schwerpunk said:

I started mapping in Doom-in-Hexen format, but after switching to UDMF, I can't help but feel that it's the wave of the future. Are there any advantages to using other formats over it?

Hardcore Boom all day every day.

BloodyAcid said:

Hardcore Boom all day every day.

Limit-removed Vanilla. Then it works on everything (apart from, of course, Vanilla :P)

I propose mouldy be given the following custom title:

You are aligning those rocky textures, right? :)
haha! life is too short for that.

EDIT: I love the red openings in the upper part of the map. Very clever.