Doom 2 in name only (tentative title)

Just a pic of industrial zone, ignore the right hand side of the picture, I have only built the first building and the background area behind it.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8474/industrailzone.png

glenzinho: this thread contains a list of the limits in a post by Quasar. it also generally seems like a good resource for vanilla mapping tricks (which is very relevant to this wad!)

ProTip for everyone with Doom Builder 2: Look for the latest version either at doombuilder.com or svn.drdteam.org (whichever is later). It contains the "Visplane Explorer" plugin which is supposed to let you prevent VPOs right from the mapping stage. There is also a relevant thread in the Editing subforum here.

Download Chocorenderlimits, it really helps.

I've not used Visplane Explorer yet but I'm told this is useful too.

i added those links in the first post. this is all very helpful to me, cause i'm pretty new to this.

Processingcontrol said:

I'm surprised how quick it took me to make this. The last map I finished took me mouths, and this one took me only a day. Pretty satisfied how it came out too. [/B]

It's a good map and I think the best quality is the lighting and the game play has a consistent pace from beginning to end. I think you should replace the chaingun with the chainsaw at the start it was a lot more fun when I went into the map with just a pistol then had to work towards a chaingun.

_bruce_ said:

Very nice - I'm in. Thx for the update ella guro. Mine will be vanilla/within limits.

Thanks guys (and gal)... merged about two-thirds of the linedefs and it still doesn't look much different from the original shot, but I'm WAY under the limit now!
That thread and Quasar's post is gold as well.

This is the readjusted start area and it doesn't crash under Choc any more.

Processingcontrol said:

Here's Entryway.

Hehe, you know wads for Zdoom like 10x that multiply the amount of enemies by 10? Well, I think this map would play better with something like 1/5x. It wouldn't reduce the difficulty AT ALL and would make the gameplay a lot more dynamic.

Nice job on Entryway, ProcessingControl. I don't think there's any mistaking it for a map of another title.

Christ, Entryway's a bit trigger-happy. I'm not sure how I feel about it, to be honest.

Ah well, I'll set to work on Icon Of Sin as soon as I've finished my current in-progress map.

.

Bleh, so I made like 3% of the map and there is already more than 100 visplanes visible from one point. Since this is going to be a very open map, I guess there will be something like 1000 visplanes in the end. I don't want to bother with this stuff, I don't even use vanilla doom so screw this, you can remove me from the list. :P

Yeah, making an interesting Icon with Vanilla visplane limits is going to be tough here. I have something visualised, but I think it's going to be a killer with the VPO.

The visplane limit is a great effort enhancer - you can still do a lot if everything's spot on.
I had 2 maps in my, not yet released, megawad where I was nearly melting down on how to circumvent the dreaded crash... after 2 days I was victorious though the battle was hard... seemed that for every fix a new problem popped up.

Though if the project allows unlimited then go for it.

Oh, I'm not out. I'll just have to scale down my idea til it fits. It'll be a challenge I'm up to, believe me. :)

FDA of PC's Entryway:

tbh, i didn't even know the map names when i played doom2 for the first time, nor did i care about what the automap said, as i was too busy shooting.

reading the names now, they suggest to me:

1 - entryway - something in the style of the opening "select your difficulty" map from quake

2 - underhalls - your typical sewers map with pipes and crap pools

5 - the waste tunnels - same as above, perhaps reminiscent of a quake2 waste processing plant

7 - dead simple - hard map, hellish design with heaps of bones, skulls, tortured people, flayed skins on the wall (go wild with these). a satanic temple of death.

8 - tricks and traps - less monsters, very elaborate environmental hazards

10 - refueling base - looks like a refinery

12 to 16 - mappers should be able to make much more city-like maps today, see dawn of reality

18, 19 - medieval castle

20 - gotcha - a map with tight time limits, and voodoo dolls?

21 - nirvana - now here it's getting abstract. a surreal map, floating in the sky.

Can I sneak in useful textures, such as brown or blue liquid falls?

Memfis said:

Bleh, so I made like 3% of the map and there is already more than 100 visplanes visible from one point. Since this is going to be a very open map, I guess there will be something like 1000 visplanes in the end. I don't want to bother with this stuff, I don't even use vanilla doom so screw this, you can remove me from the list. :P

alright, if that's what you'd like! if you want to rejoin at some point, just let me know.

printz said:

Can I sneak in useful textures, such as brown or blue liquid falls?

d1gfxd2.wad is a great resource. I would certainly be happy if it was allowed. I'm pretty sure it has the various falls textures in it.

printz said:

Can I sneak in useful textures, such as brown or blue liquid falls?

hmm. if i say yes, we should keep it to an absolute minimum. i want it to still look like Doom 2.

I think d1gfxd2 is the spawn of satan which has no business to be in Doom 2.

Instead, here is the little texture pack that contains exactly eight new textures: four BLODGR* textures for the mud fall, and four WFALL* textures for the water fall. Is it eligible?

printz said:

Instead, here is the little texture pack that contains exactly eight new textures: four BLODGR* textures for the mud fall, and four WFALL* textures for the water fall. Is it eligible?

i'll say yes. but we should really draw the line there.

Right. Let's hope people won't start demanding all sorts of NiGHTMARE Useful Textures for example. They blend quite well with the defaults.

I'm not using new textures. Fuck that. I'm going HARDCORE vanilla here. Shit, I might even break out WadEd to do this map.

Alright. I'm kidding about WadEd.

was just messing around with basic things in Doombuilder and it's even more ridiculously intuitive than the last time i tried it. this ought to be a lot of fun :)

Processingcontrol said:

Here's Entryway.

Really good map, but I checked it in Chocorenderlimits and saw that even such small and simple map has 112 visplanes at one place! What should we all do with our epic maps? Won't it be easier to switch to vanilla compatible maps played with limit removing port?

ella guro: Do I understand it right that the mudwater texture pack is really allowed? I want to know if I can use waterfalls before I start mapping.

scifista42 said:

Really good map, but I checked it in Chocorenderlimits and saw that even such small and simple map has 112 visplanes at one place!

That's below the limit and is fair game. You can make very big maps that throughout their whole content go near the limit but don't surpass it. That's how complex vanilla Doom maps ought to be.

scifista42 said:

Really good map, but I checked it in Chocorenderlimits and saw that even such small and simple map has 112 visplanes at one place! What should we all do with our epic maps? Won't it be easier to switch to vanilla compatible maps played with limit removing port?

Well, I tried AV MAP20 the other day with doom2.exe in DOSBOX and it seemed to play fine so you can create some very elaborate designs. I think the way this WAD looks it will be better without limit removing.

Edit

Printz: Not to mention when you map in vanilla you need to be very creative yet conservative at the same time. The only real difference I see between limit removing/non-limit removing is limit removing maps tend to have a lot more double sided lines whereas non limit removing maps are designed more specifically to try and get the most out of dooms render engine which leads to better designed maps rather than having linedefs for the sake of having linedefs.