Doom 2 in name only (tentative title)

Hellbent said:

Only textures that are 128 high will stack properly. All other so called "short" textures will do the tutti-frutti when they tile vertically.

Ohh, right. Thanks. :-)

Obsidian said:

http://www.mediafire.com/?35y4ckzpnziopjt

I think that's it. I haven't used MediaFire before.

yeah, i got it.

i liked a lot of the background details, but the only two areas that struck me as particularly interesting were the ones from the original :( otherwise, the progression was basically a linear series of hallways. especially for a map 28, i feel like this needs to be a lot bigger and more open with more landmarks and interesting architecture going on. also amount of enemies was pretty low, and then all of a sudden two spider demons are at the end. i don't want to restrict your ideas or tell you what to make, but the only thing this map has going for it for me right now are the two areas from the original :(

i don't mean to be so harsh. i just want these to be really good maps. this is map 28, after all - the wad has been building up to it. with a name like "the spirit world" it really does need to live up to that. don't be afraid to take chances and do something really out there, because this is a map that definitely warrants that as much as possible. if you don't feel you're up to that, we can arrange to switch maps or try something else. it's up to you.

this is also a reminder that there's no deadline set right now, so everyone feel free to take your time with your maps.

Obsidian said:

For some reason some of the textures don't "stack" in vanilla. There's this ugly line that appears between each copy of the texture as it goes up the wall. I'd post an example but Doom95 throws a fit every time I try take a screenshot. X-(

On the plus side, my map is pretty much finished. I'll see if I can upload it.

You may have thought of this or may not want to bother, but you could still make a taller wall of scrolling spirit faces by using multiple small sectors, each of which was no more than 112 units above or below the next. Sort of like an Icon of Sin but with facewall textures instead of Icon parts, if you see what I mean.

ella guro said:

yeah, i got it.

i liked a lot of the background details, but the only two areas that struck me as particularly interesting were the ones from the original :( otherwise, the progression was basically a linear series of hallways. especially for a map 28, i feel like this needs to be a lot bigger and more open with more landmarks and interesting architecture going on. also amount of enemies was pretty low, and then all of a sudden two spider demons are at the end. i don't want to restrict your ideas or tell you what to make, but the only thing this map has going for it for me right now are the two areas from the original :(

i don't mean to be so harsh. i just want these to be really good maps. this is map 28, after all - the wad has been building up to it. with a name like "the spirit world" it really does need to live up to that. don't be afraid to take chances and do something really out there, because this is a map that definitely warrants that as much as possible. if you don't feel you're up to that, we can arrange to switch maps or try something else. it's up to you.

this is also a reminder that there's no deadline set right now, so everyone feel free to take your time with your maps.

Dang. Maybe I'll add more Arch-Viles. >:-D

I have noticed that some of my maps are somewhat linear, so I'll try work on that. I'll expand the final area and add more monsters as well.

Actually, screw that: I'm starting again. I'm going to try a new idea and recycle the old map in something else. It's a bit sad that my map isn't up to snuff, but you learn more from failures than you do sucesses.

EDIT: By the way, was my map better than the original? Just curious.

ella guro said:

will chocolate Doom run limit-removing vanilla? i have to admit that i had just assumed limit-removing = Boom.

Apart from a config option for game saves I can't think of anything limit-removing about Chocolate.

glenzinho said:

now if only GreyGhost can finish his map at a Plane or Helicopter ;)

Re-creating the Boeing factory in vanilla Doom is probably beyond me, will you settle for a helipad beyond the exit linedef? :)

Helicopter is easy, check out ksutra.wad :) - http://www.wuala.com/api/preview/kuchitsu/Doom_SCREEN/ksutra.wad/helicopter.jpg

GreyGhost said:

Apart from a config option for game saves I can't think of anything limit-removing about Chocolate.

For limit-removing, either Google "Doom-Plus" or use PrBoom+ with a vanilla-compliant complevel (see its readme.compat).

wait, so is this project limit-removing or are we going straight up vanilla exe?

AFAIK, still vanilla (and I prefer that too, now that we have enough tools to control the resource usage). The post quoted by GreyGhost was old.

GreyGhost said:
Re-creating the Boeing factory in vanilla Doom is probably beyond me, will you settle for a helipad beyond the exit linedef? :) [/B]

That would be quite marvellous Mr Ghost! ^_^ I can make a nearby building be on fire a little bit and have some kind of hole, which would explain the 'parachute' at the start of my map; being that you came under the attack in the chopper and needed to exit the vehicle rather quickly.
I'm learning to deal with the vanilla limits now... it's all about illusion and only showing what the player needs to see. Map is coming along nicely now!
I can see why the levels in Doom 2 are like they are, now. Living End has to be a minor miracle... I'm going to open it up and check it with visiplane explorer...

printz said:

AFAIK, still vanilla (and I prefer that too, now that we have enough tools to control the resource usage). The post quoted by GreyGhost was old.

yep, it's still vanilla.

Obsidian said:

Actually, screw that: I'm starting again. I'm going to try a new idea and recycle the old map in something else. It's a bit sad that my map isn't up to snuff, but you learn more from failures than you do sucesses.

EDIT: By the way, was my map better than the original? Just curious.

if your map doesn't fit into the project, you can always release it on your own too. you'll probably get some more feedback that way. i just thought it was bland layout-wise, especially for a hell-themed map.

i actually thought the original was pretty neat. there's some cool stuff going on there, even though it feels kinda incomplete. but then i didn't mind Nirvana much either. i think Sandy Petersen has a lot of cool ideas and i think gets kind of a bad rap for a lot of his maps feeling a little random or slapdash. Doom would definitely not be the same game without him, for me. i still hate The Factory and The Suburbs though.

Gotta love the use of the DLA theme in Processingcontrol's Entryway :P I agree with other posters though, the high monster count might be a problem, because unlike with community chests, maps won't be reordered based on difficulty. So whoever picks early maps needs to go easy, and whoever picks hell needs to be trigger happy.

i marked down Eregore for 'O' of Destruction

i'm going to set a tentative target date for release of this project sometime before the end of this year. we'll see how things go, though.

In progress shots of my Downtown map. I completely scrapped the first version when it proved unviable in vanilla.
I've come up with a new concept and now it's staying well within vanilla limts:

Starting area
This is what happens to the aviation vehicle Doomguy parachutes in from (Make that helipad GreyGhost!)
"You should be dancin', YEAH!"
The lobby
On the dirty downtown streets

glenzinho said:

Make that helipad GreyGhost!

Here's your helipad, which is sort of visible from the start room - way off in the red brick building. If I'm not too close to the visplane limit later on I'll try adding a helicopter.

It's early days yet, I've settled on a path to the exit and now have to start filling several cavernous buildings, might also find myself scaling them down somewhat. First room to fill is the warehouse, I'll try not to turn it into a crate maze nightmare.


(720x450 - 112k)

remember to watch for detail, glenzinho. those look pretty plain right now. i like the street broken up in radioactive slime, though.

GreyGhost said:

First room to fill is the warehouse, I'll try not to turn it into a crate maze nightmare.

as long as it's an interesting crate maze nightmare, i won't complain :)

May I claim Map07?

sure. i'll mark you down.

ella guro said:

remember to watch for detail, glenzinho. those look pretty plain right now. i like the street broken up in radioactive slime, though.

GreyGhost said:

It's early days yet, I've settled on a path to the exit and now have to start filling several cavernous buildings, might also find myself scaling them down somewhat.

This is where I'm at as well. I have the basic path scratched out, filling and detailing will come soon enough!
GreyGhost, the exit area is perfect... just a little interconnectivity like this between maps really helps to thread a megawad together.

ella guro said:

sure. i'll mark you down.

Thanks, I'll start looking at how to make it...even simpler :o

EDIT: Question: When using Tag 666 + 667 for Map07 does the monster HAVE to be Mancubus and Arachnotron?

It looks like tag 667 only works with arachnotrons, though you should be able to replace the mancubuses with Keen dolls for tag 666.

I had considered using Keen, but thought that he would be slightly out of place. Mancubi it is -_-
Thanks anyway, though.


EDIT: a possible title could be Doom II: Redux
Also, Multiplayer, yes or no?

I got a question. I decided to map Focus first as a warm-up for the living end, and of course i replayed the first four doom2 maps to remember them better. I forgot how freaking short they were! Are we aiming at the same laughable length with the starting maps of this project, or can i make it a bit (or several bits!) longer?

The key here is that Doom 2 as made by id doesn't exist. You only have the level names drafted so far. Your only worry is to make its difficulty consistent for level 4, because it will never be moved to another slot, unlike with basic community megawads.

Well that i understand, but still nearby levels should be fairly consistent in length. What i probably should've asked is, did the authours of maps 1-whatever (early ones) make them as short or longer than the originals? I will probably make mine longer but not too long still. Many things, like style and detail level, will be inconsistent anyways...

Edit: the area just outside the entrance. The massive crack was caused by a subterranean reactor explosion and apparently all the waste ran into it immidiately.

if I have Mancubi mounted on plinths for map07 (albeit with more plinths), I'm doing this wrong right?

-ready to start again-

EDIT: Starting again anyway.

looks very cool, Antroid. you can make your map longer than the original, just make sure it's not too difficult - stick to the lower level monsters if you can. the length can vary some from map to map, as long as there aren't any huge spikes in difficulty.

Thanks. I'm sticking to the three zombies, imps and demons for this map, like in the original. Figured i won't disturb the sets of monsters used in the original maps. Although if people have already used higher-level monsters in 01-03, that would be convenient to know so i could use them as well.

Thanks for accepting me as a mapper for this project! Right now I only have some room carvings and a layout concept for my slot, map 11, 'Circle O' Destruction', and guess what, It will be circular . . . but hey, I got some questions:

-Are we making all levels pistol start compatible? (I think we should)

-Are we pacing the weapon or monster premieres? If possible I would like to request the premiere of the Cyber-demon on my map, and that the BFG will NOT have had an appearance in or before map 11 (so player CAN'T just BFG blast the cybie away), the answer to this question will significantly alter how I approach my map.

Thanks!