The DWmegawad Club Plays: CC4 (Starting JENESIS Oct. 1st!)

I think I'm gonna officially drop out guys. I've been feeling sick the past week, which has put me too far behind to even attempt catching up. Maybe, I'll finish my Let's Play series at a later time, though.

Matt534Dog said:

I think I'm gonna officially drop out guys. I've been feeling sick the past week, which has put me too far behind to even attempt catching up. Maybe, I'll finish my Let's Play series at a later time, though.

Eh, as long as you're not posting ahead of the schedule, I say post your thoughts (or videos) about levels whenever you get to them. A level a day is a pretty ambitious schedule for playing a project like CC4, and it would be counter-productive to say "you can't post if you're behind".

LordK said:

Map17: this map was exquisitely crafted, in my opinion one of the best looking maps in CC4.

Capellan said:

Map17
Fun 'arcade style' level. Again, not much sense of a real place, but a good variety of locations and tactical situations. Towards the end it did feel a little padded. Two areas were quite similar, and then there was a long switch flicking process to end things, but I had so much fun with the first half of the level that I didn't really care.

Me = Shocked

See CC4 Public Beta Thread for reason why.

Aleaver said:

Me = Shocked

See CC4 Public Beta Thread for reason why.

Well, I don't agree with LordK about the way the level looks - I think the outdoor area is quite nice but the indoors are pretty ugly.

Reviewing the other thread, a lot of the complaints are based around playing from a pistol start. Which I didn't do. Also, I enjoy mowing down hordes of imps and troopers with the SSG and CG. It's quite satisfying to me.

The complaints about archvile spam also didn't impact me (probably because I am playing on HMP).

I did note the symmetry and the switch hunting in my comments, which was apparently a bugbear for folks in the other thread. Honestly, symmetrical architecture doesn't worry me too much, as long as the gameplay changes. So the other part I really rolled my eyes at was the "upstairs", where you get the same monsters in the same patterns on both sides.

gameplay was sped up with heavier weapons available sooner compared to the public beta, i think that helps with the "arcade style" and "mowing down hordes" bits.

MAP17: Metastasize by Andy Leaver

Great cavern start with plenty of ammo and fodder for chaingunning... good times! After the cavern you descend onto a UAC base, which is divided into two halves, the red one and the blue one. This idea I like as it leaves you with a clear direction of where you are and where you are going. However, this lends to what Capellan described above as a kind of "video game" experience as opposed to a Doom level. This in itself is not bad, and this level is a lot of fun so I can forgive this one, it just gives a different feel. I will concur about the symmetrical placement of monsters, but from when I played it in the beta version, it looks like some of this was changed slightly. I wasn't in much of a mood for Dooming today, but this map put a smile on my dial so I have to call it FUN!

99/95/25 26:55 UV
File under "Just shoot shit" and also "Health & Armor Bonus Mania!!!"

Capellan said:

as long as you're not posting ahead of the schedule, I say post your thoughts (or videos) about levels whenever you get to them.

^This

Aleaver said:

Me = Shocked
See CC4 Public Beta Thread for reason why.

^Seen it, still have to say your map is great!

For me the one thing that came in to my mind when playing map 17 was boring. No difficulty whatsoever and loads of ammo gives this level indeed an arcadey feel but it makes it really boring for me. I like the idea with the red and blue parts but it would have been much better if it was not so symmetrical and something radical changed in the blue part. The cave at the beginning was really nice but some of the indoor parts were kind of ugly, especially the pentagram texture looked really out of place. At some point i got bored and just rushed through everything with plasma. I prefer maps with a bit more planning needed.

Aleaver said:

Me = Shocked

See CC4 Public Beta Thread for reason why.

You shouldn't be too disheartened by beta testers, because of course they are going to play the maps with a mindset of looking for faults.

Despite my slight gameplay grumbles, this map was one of the most enjoyable ones in the level set thus far. The only thing that really bothered me was the symmetry.

When I praised the looks of this level, I meant the inside part of the base too. I really liked the clean looks and vibrant coloring there. Sure it looked video-gamy, but I don't mind that. I don't want my Doom levels to try to look like real places too much.

Oh BTW my views might be colored by the fact that I didn't do pistol start. That meant I had the BFG to deal with some potentially annoying archviles.

LordK said:

You shouldn't be too disheartened by beta testers, because of course they are going to play the maps with a mindset of looking for faults.

Despite my slight gameplay grumbles, this map was one of the most enjoyable ones in the level set thus far. The only thing that really bothered me was the symmetry.

When I praised the looks of this level, I meant the inside part of the base too. I really liked the clean looks and vibrant coloring there. Sure it looked video-gamy, but I don't mind that. I don't want my Doom levels to try to look like real places too much.

Oh BTW my views might be colored by the fact that I didn't do pistol start. That meant I had the BFG to deal with some potentially annoying archviles.

I did do pistol start and I had full plasma ammo pretty much the whole runthrough after getting the plasma making the archviles pretty easy and not annoying at all. They were even too easy, im not sure how the beta testers played but im guessing some stuff got changed after the beta.

Map18: I didn't like this one at first. The looks didn't appeal to me, the layout seemed messy and there were some odd gameplay choices. But the more I played it, the more it grew on me.

The level has some of that old-fashioned city level charm. There were a lot to explore, a lot of keys and secrets, but it wasn't spread over a too large of an area and teleporters helped to quickly navigate around the place.

There were a little too much switches and some areas felt redundant or under-utilized, but overall I liked this one.

Map18
Played for 10 minutes. Found a door that needs 6 keys to open. Saved and went to do something else, instead. I'll get back to this on Thursday, probably.

I understand if I'm still a bit behind here. Anyways, onto the three maps.

Map31: It's pretty interesting how to access the super-secret level, but it's still a pretty tough level overall.

Map32: I really was dreading playing this level, but now I realized that not only was it brutal with the amount of enemies, but it was confusing as hell! Ugh, I'm just glad to finally get this one out of the way.

Map16: This one having four different miniature forts definitely reminded me of a deathmatch arena...however, the traps after getting each key were nowhere near as bad as two of the traps letting lose archies, with one placing four of them on each of the walkable edges of the level itself. The two cyberdemon fight, however, was still plenty nasty if not prepared for it. (don't get me started on the part with the caged cybo in a tiny-ass room in one of the forts.)

Map18: Wandered around for 15 minutes without getting far (only 2 keys) got bored and quit. Im probably not going to finish this map, the gameplay isnt anything special the map is confusing as hell and too many switches which seem to do nothing.

FOund this glitch on Map02. You can exploit the plasma rifle secret.

Retog said:

FOund this glitch on Map02. You can exploit the plasma rifle secret.

But that is not really a glitch. That is named a speedrunner trick.

For examples like this, check Compet-n's demos for ultimate doom e4m6, where you can grab the bfg.

Torn said:

But that is not really a glitch. That is named a speedrunner trick.

For examples like this, check Compet-n's demos for ultimate doom e4m6, where you can grab the bfg.

It should not be like that. If speed runners use it then are abusing it and it would be counted as TAS.
It is a mistake by the mapper.

It's not a bug, it's a feature!

Retog said:

If speed runners use it then are abusing it and it would be counted as TAS.

Nope.

Map17: Well, that one was pretty interesting. It was fairly short, but still not exactly easy. Not to mention, the way it was split between red and blue makes it look like the RED and BLU teams would potentially fight in there.

How can you actually believe this was intentional? It was not intentional, it was a mistake. It is a glitch. Accept the facts laid before you.

Can you get some more confrontative for me, please? Pretty please!

Map32

I like what the author is going for here..the whole deal with areas opening as the level progresses. It works well. I loved the first 20-30 minutes of this, finding a route out at the start and looking for ways to progress. I like that for a mid-megawad level which forces a pistol start, the map provides all the weapons and a fair bit of ammo for them.

What I don't like..I think the level is too long. Too much wallhumping for secrets. I think the point that soured me on this was the bit where you have to jump into the corridor with the archvile and the revenants, that took me forever - I used the invulnerability in the cyb room without realising what it was for (what was that room all about anyway?) I haven't finished the level, I'm just not finding it fun anymore.

Might just be me rather than the map though. I'm gonna take a break from this - I have a job interview on Friday so my time would be much better spent preparing for that. Maybe I'll have a big doom session after that.

haha shit, well i messed this up...

I was a bit behind so decided to catch up, played map 15 and couldn't find the secret exit so thought I would just use the console to go to the secret map.

It was only after finishing it and seeing the credits roll that I realised I had typed 'map 30' by mistake. Well you have a treat in store for you there...

I may as well give some thoughts on map 15 while i'm here - it was a good solid map with some nicely varied and detailed scenery. I must have humped every wall I could find though and only got 2 out of 8 secrets.

I'm still a bunch of maps behind but will catch you all up.

MAP18: Suburbia by Jimmy/Mechadon

I love city levels, and this is one of the finest Doom styled ones I have played. You need to find all 6 keys to progress through this map, but don't let that put you off because progression has a nice flow for the most part. In fact, the progression is really well done for a city map. Too often you see city maps come out with no clear direction to go annd you usually end up wandering around, wondering WTF is going on, but not here. Difficulty is reasonable and challenging without being ridiculous. I liked the part with the docks and the boat, although I swear it was easier to get the soulsphere secret in the beta version.

99/91/53 39:25 UV
This is ace!

chugging along... map 14
pistol start on HMP, 4 deaths

Considering the moderate difficulty, the number of deaths I had is rather silly as only once was it due to my wireless keyboard acting up. As no encounter is too deadly, this is fun to play casually without savegames. Space is utilized well for the rocket launcher start; there's enough to move around yet tight enough that there's danger of self inflicted splash damage. Secrets are interesting and some add route possibilities to make progression safer.

Tidbits:
- It's simple to avoid being boxed in at the red key trap.
- Forgot to do it but saving the invulnerability (by taking advantage of a hidden back door) until the final fight beyond the yellow door trivializes it.
- If you know about the right secrets, exiting the map with 200% health can be guaranteed due to when they're accessible. Rather generous but useful for movie runs.

Retog said:

How can you actually believe this was intentional?

Such tricks are common knowledge and mappers sometimes make them possible on purpose. There is even a "hardcore" wad by TimeOfDeath where you HAVE to "grab" an item to beat the map.
But I don't remember skillsaw putting any tricks/shortcuts in his wads so in this case it was probably unintentional.

Map18: I didn't get as aggravated with this map as I did with Map32, but still, I didn't like the switch hunt thing.

Map19: A fairly short level, with quite a few particularly tough fights involving cyberdemons in tiny-ass rooms. Ugh...at least it didn't take me long to figure out the exit, though the mandatory archvile jump does prevent 100% kills.

gun_psycho said:

Map19: A fairly short level, with quite a few particularly tough fights involving cyberdemons in tiny-ass rooms. Ugh...at least it didn't take me long to figure out the exit, though the mandatory archvile jump does prevent 100% kills.

Woah dude, no way I'd ever make AV jumps a necessary feature to complete a map. You're definitely overlooking something here!

Joshy said:

Woah dude, no way I'd ever make AV jumps a necessary feature to complete a map. You're definitely overlooking something here!

Then again, I wasn't too hung over that part even if I was, as I didn't exactly feel like repeating Map18 after my PC blue-screened on me.

Edit: Nevermind, I found out about what I missed. From this point onward, I'm not even gonna bother with 100%

It's cool. Love it or hate it, as long as you know 100% is possible ;-)

just caught up with the secret levels. Map 31 was a symphony in beige, the layout was pretty cool though especially the way it opened up old areas and allowed me to get thouroughly raped by the army of revenants from all directions.

Map 32... wow. This was bloody magnificent. It was like being trapped in a demented nightmare, i bloody loved this map. Absolutely insane the way walls kept moving and rooms seeming to appear out of nowhere, all filled with nasty monsters. Man I had a great time in this map. And the music was excellent, really added to the craziness. Has to be my favourite map so far.