Doom Juan's ZDoom editing questions

A spiral staircaise I knocked up:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/222/screenshotdoom201209032.png/

It's easier than I thought, though it does take a bit of planning with regards complex structures:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/screenshotdoom201209031.png/

It will really add depth to my castle :)

I wont be dabbling with Gzdoom just now though, and I'll work around the fact that I can't have 3D slopes via Hub levels (I have vaulted corridors and so forth and don't want to sacrifice them).

If you can make the spiral staircase you can make anything ;)

Doom Juan said:

... I'll work around the fact that I can't have 3D slopes via Hub levels

I'm not quite sure what the connection is between 3D slopes and hubs. You can have one without the other.

He means he wants to fake the Room-Over-Room stuff so he can have multiple stories in the tower, with slopes on each; and since 3D floor slopes aren't possible this works around it.


However, he could use silent teleporters to achieve the same effect while keeping everything in the same level.

Kappes Buur said:

That made me chuckle a bit.

Of course, that is possible, if you know the number for the thing or special and the number and meaning of the attributes.
Oh, the tediom, switching back and forth between the WIKI and DB1 to find and apply the correct information.

It hurts just thinking about it. :)

Of course it'd be a pain in the ass. My point was more that the engine specifies what is possible, not the editor one is using. New people don't seem to realise that (as you can see at the gazillion of "CAN DOOMBUILDER 2 DO X?" threads).

To stop me filling Doom Editing up with my incessant questioning, I thought it would be best to make a thread dedicated to all my questions instead.

Today I'd like to know if it's possible to have incidental music in Zdoom with ACS? I want certain tracks to play at certain parts of my map - how do I go about this?

PS - is it possible for a mod to combine all my previous editing related questions into this thread for ease of access?

Good, I mentioned this the other day when half the posts were by you here!

Doom Juan said:

Today I'd like to know if it's possible to have incidental music in Zdoom with ACS? I want certain tracks to play at certain parts of my map - how do I go about this?

SetMusic is what you want, I believe.

Check this ZDooM thread for an example script for music, and a discussion on issues with music in ZDooM.

Someone mentioned silent teleporters earlier - how effective are they? Can they act in the same manner as a Hub level but on the same map (i.e. spawning in the right location to give an effective illusion).

Doom Juan said:

A spiral staircaise I knocked up:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/222/screenshotdoom201209032.png/

It's easier than I thought, though it does take a bit of planning with regards complex structures:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/screenshotdoom201209031.png/

It will really add depth to my castle :)

I wont be dabbling with Gzdoom just now though, and I'll work around the fact that I can't have 3D slopes via Hub levels (I have vaulted corridors and so forth and don't want to sacrifice them).

That spiral is fab!! What engine is it running on???

Doom Juan said:

Someone mentioned silent teleporters earlier - how effective are they? Can they act in the same manner as a Hub level but on the same map (i.e. spawning in the right location to give an effective illusion).

Silent teleporters are very effective, so long as you make sure that the area to which the player teleports is identical to the area from which s/he is teleporting.

"Seamless" hub transitions work in much the same way as silent teleporters.

Phendrena said:

That spiral is fab!! What engine is it running on???

He said: "I wont be dabbling with Gzdoom just now though...", so I'd say he's using ZDooM (software renderer).

Phendrena said:

That spiral is fab!! What engine is it running on???

It's standard Zdoom (not GZdoom).

I'm dabbling with GZdoom, but think I'll release my first wad on Zdoom.

With DB1 you could select a group of sectors, and press page down/page up/home+end to raise and lower the ceiling/floor.

How do you do this with DB2? I can't seem to figure it out... lowering and raising everything individually will take forever :-s

Click the individual sectors to highlight them, right click to alter properties.

Thanks Eris, but that's not quite what I'm getting it.

I want to select a group of sectors and just lower their attributes, so all the ceilings and floors will raise/lower down correspondingly - as was able in DB1.

A couple more comments on silent teleporters.

It's a good idea to make the parts of the map that you can see when teleporting have no monsters and be not accessible to monsters. If monsters can get in to the area, then they (or their corpses) will appear/disappear as you teleport.

Doing this also means the player is less likely to fire his weapons in the area. This, in turn, means he is less likely to leave decals on the wall which will also appear/disappear as the player teleports.

I have used silent teleporters a number of times and, as Rex said they can be very effective. However, my current thinking on these kind of issues is to try and put the different sections (the different floors or whatever are being separated by the teleports) in different maps in a HUB. My main reasons for this are:

That the slightly perceptible "I've just changed levels" clues will be noticed by the player and because players are used to the mechanics of different parts of a game loading/unloading as you progress, this slightly noticeable transition sort of lampshades the transition and makes it (and incinsistencies like decals) more acceptable (IMO). This is versus the invisible teleport where the player may not notice a silent teleport until they do something like check the automap and then spots that they are miles from where they thought they were on the map.

It makes the individual maps smaller. Now, I know that modern ports can handle enormous maps and that making huge maps is in vogue. However, if they get very big, the editing/saving/error checking (etc) process becomes longer and longer as can the load/save times when playing and the speed of the game on some lower end machines.

Of course, there isn't one correct answer that satisfies every situation so it's nice to have options and, who knows, I may swing back to favouring silent teleports some time. ;)

Doom Juan said:

Thanks Eris, but that's not quite what I'm getting it.

I want to select a group of sectors and just lower their attributes, so all the ceilings and floors will raise/lower down correspondingly - as was able in DB1.

In 2D mode, select the sectors and bring up their properties. If you want to increase the floor or ceiling by a certain value, enter "++" and then the value you want to increase it by, for example "++32". To lower, just replace "++" with "--" and then the value. Pressing OK will update the heights accordingly.

In 3D mode, select the individual floors and ceilings of the sectors you want to adjust; they should glow red. Then just increase/decrease the height as you normally do, and they'll all increase/decrease together.

Hope this is more what you're looking for.

Thanks again for everyone's advice: I figured out the raise/lower floor/ceiling thingy (ctrl/shift + mouse wheel).

My internet connection is back up today, so I'll be posting more questions as they come.

I am encountering problems with decals.

It seems that if I modify my level, or change certain aspects of it in entirely seperate areas from where some of my decals are placed that they vanish or are no longer in the same location that they were placed in.

Are there limitations on decorative decals? What known bugs and errors do they have, and how does one avoid them?

Doom in UDMF format - what is it exactly in laymen's english?

It seems that a lot of the silly bugs I keep on getting when making maps in hexen format (textures not alignement not corresponding to the played level, the "Unable to remove temporary compiler files. UnauthorizedAccessException: Access to the path 'zdbsp.exe' is denied." error) don't seem to happen in UDMF format - am I right in assuming I can have all the Zdoom features with UDMF?

Are there any drawbacks to this format?

Doom Juan said:

Doom in UDMF format - what is it exactly in laymen's english?

The easiest way to determine the difference between Hexen format and UDMF format would be to construct a simple map in both formats and then compare them in Slade3.

A quick verbose explanation is that UDMF format maps have everything, vertices, linefefs, things etc individually described in text format, which makes it easy to assign special properties to each item. Doombuilder2 makes that very easy.

http://zdoom.org/wiki/UDMF
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/UDMF

Doom Juan said:

Are there any drawbacks to this format?

That depends on what you consider a drawback.

It takes a certain amount of rethinking the editing process, but that is quickly learned.

Only a few ports support the UDMF format
ZDoom, GZDoom, VaVoom, Skulltag and Eternity. I don't know if Zandronum supports it or, if it does, will continue to do so.

Doom Juan said:

am I right in assuming I can have all the Zdoom features with UDMF?

Of course, but as already mentioned, the editing process is slightly different in attaching special properties.

Doom Juan said:

It seems that a lot of the silly bugs I keep on getting when making maps in hexen format (textures not alignement not corresponding to the played level, the "Unable to remove temporary compiler files. UnauthorizedAccessException: Access to the path 'zdbsp.exe' is denied." error) don't seem to happen in UDMF format

Which version of DB2 are you using right now?
Which versions of DB2 have you tried to install on your computer?

Doom Juan said:

I am encountering problems with decals....

In a case like this, it is best to post the map so someone can take a look at it.

Kappes Buur said:

Only a few ports support the UDMF format
ZDoom, GZDoom, VaVoom, Skulltag and Eternity. I don't know if Zandronum supports it or, if it does, will continue to do so.

1. Eternity does not have support for UDMF yet. It's planned, but that's all.
2. Zandronum is a fork of Skulltag. Everything supported by Skulltag is supported by Zandronum. They also would have absolutely no reason at all to remove UDMF support.

Hello, I'm using the latest version of DB2 with this set of config files that enable me to see 3D floors - I hope the latest version of DB2 has the ability to see 3D floors as standard, as well as slopes, as it would make editing so much easier!

I would very much like to get this problem resolved, in particular with the texture alignment issue as it's killing my enthusiasm as of late... :-/

Doom Juan said:

Hello, I'm using the latest version of DB2 with this set of config files that enable me to see 3D floors - I hope the latest version of DB2 has the ability to see 3D floors as standard, as well as slopes, as it would make editing so much easier!

From that statememnt I would surmise that you are now mapping for the GZDoom (Doom in Hexen) format.

Codeimp introduced the GZDoom Visual Mode plugin when Doombuilder2 was at version r1416. So, yes, since then every new version came with that plugin included.

Doom Juan said:

I would very much like to get this problem resolved, in particular with the texture alignment issue as it's killing my enthusiasm as of late... :-/

However, at around r1466, DB2 underwent a major overhaul, with the result that texture alignment in this plugin would only work with the UDMF format. When not using UDMF, the regular Visual Mode must be used to align textures successfully.


Since then, many many bugs and improvements have been made to Doombuilder2, which is now at r1604.

So, let me ask you again

Which version of DB2 are you using right now?
Which versions of DB2 have you tried to install on your computer?

And also, do you have an entry in Control Panel - Programs for Doombuilder2, something like this

The setup says builder2_setup_1553.exe, the latest download from the doom builder website.

And no, I am editing standard Zdoom but wanting to implament 3D floors - I just want the ability to see my 3D floor in visual mode so i can adjust them in due course (to many spiral staircases).