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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club Plays: CC4 (Starting JENESIS Oct. 1st!)

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Map18 (for real, this time)
Got stuck for a looooong time without any keys. Finally worked out how to get into the red keycard room (though at the time I still didn't know that the key was in there). After that, there was a bit of running back and forth as areas opened up, but in later stages of the level this reduced, as you were generally brought out where you needed to be.

I don't much like city levels, visually speaking, and this wasn't an exception to that rule. It was all competently done, but not to my tastes. Gameplay was mostly OK, though the archvile in an opaque box was a cheap trick.

Like map11, it overstayed its welcome. Six keys is three too many, IMO.

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Map20 - It was pretty easy to find all the secrets, and the space theme was fine; the tight areas made the map pretty difficult as usual...but it's a lead-up to the epic map21, after which the rest of the maps from that point forward somewhat feel like a minor letdown. (Not to say that those maps are getting any easier, and I know Map30 definitely won't be a straight run to the boss much like the previous three were short levels before the real battle against the Icon of Sin)

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If speed runners use it then are abusing it and it would be counted as TAS.


TAS means "tool assisted" (or "tool assisted speedrun" if you listen to english people, because english people have invented everything *grumble*), as in using the help of tools external to the original game to accomplish something. It has nothing to do with glitches.

The predominant sentiment in the speedrunning community seems to be that if the game allows it, then it is fair game. I'm not too fond of it myself as it leads to pretty stupid and uninteresting situations in some games (or even in Doom, in levels that allow particulary advantageous void glitches or glides); but on the other hand, it's easy to understand there has to be a line somewhere, and "whatever the game lets you do" is a much more fair balance point than individual and personal interpretations of what is intended or not, which would inevitably lead into a scrubbish atmosphere not conductive to any kind of competitive play.

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Phml said:

TAS means "tool assisted" (or "tool assisted speedrun" if you listen to english people, because english people have invented everything *grumble*), as in using the help of tools external to the original game to accomplish something. It has nothing to do with glitches.

The predominant sentiment in the speedrunning community seems to be that if the game allows it, then it is fair game. I'm not too fond of it myself as it leads to pretty stupid and uninteresting situations in some games (or even in Doom, in levels that allow particulary advantageous void glitches or glides); but on the other hand, it's easy to understand there has to be a line somewhere, and "whatever the game lets you do" is a much more fair balance point than individual and personal interpretations of what is intended or not, which would inevitably lead into a scrubbish atmosphere not conductive to any kind of competitive play.


Don't worry, I've changed my mind now. I think it's a handy little trick.

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MAP19: Technoprison by Josh Sealy

Start off outside a base in a snowy setting. Hectic opening sequence which involves shooting a switch to release you from your starting "cage" which of course alerts the horde around you, leading to an intense firefight. After this you progress through a nice looking cavern until you arrive to an awesome battle involving a lot of high tier monsters. After the main battle, the rest of the base was pretty straightforward, almost empty, except for one area where you drop in on a Cybie (on UV only, it seems) unannounced having his dinner, which of course makes him very upset. After apologising for my rude manners and excusing myself from the area, it was time for the exit which is at the end of a beautiful invisible path that I really liked a lot. Didn't like the music at first, but it grew on me by the middle of the map.

100/100/50 15:58 UV
Quality, and reasonably quick for this section of the wad.
I'm going to treat myself and save lupinx-kassman's maps 20 & 21 for the weekend...

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Map19
Didn't like the opening fight gimmick (but then, I do not, in general, like gimmicks in Doom levels). Underground complex with the cybie and the mass of barons and revs was pretty fun, though.

After that, however, the level devolved into switch hunting. Go here and flick that, then to the place that opened and flick another switch, then to the place that opened and blah blah blah.

Did not care for the ending area at all.

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Map21: Okay, all I gotta say is that this map was linear, but man was it a heck of a map. The premise behind the map about a rogue A.I. opening a portal to hell, and you're outsmarting it whilst braving its devious traps. After this map, the rest of the final chapter may feel like a bit of a letdown in comparison, though the last few maps may pretty much change it, much like Map29 of CC3 was a marathon level before the final level, with CC1's Map29 being an equally-epic map in its own right due to the sheer amount of architecture involved in that one.

I still have a feeling the last few maps in CC4 may definitely make up for the incredibly-annoying supersecret level in their own ways.

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Map20
The 'flying city' was well-realized, with cool vistas and lots of long distance fireballs to keep you on your toes. Really enjoyed the first 2/3 of the level.

Once through the teleporter to the end section, however, I felt the level lost its way a bit. The fierce battle to get up the stairs and to the exit tunnel was good, but the blue key and red key sections were very 'meh', to my mind, while the final tunnel was a routine chore, rather than fun.

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I’m down but not out! Currently crawling my way back up to the rest of you, one wall of text a time!

MAP11: Wow, this map really is ginormous. There’s a lot less focus on small minutiae in the architecture and a bigger emphasis on a sense of scope. Although the scenery varies somewhat, the entire time you feel like you’re trapped in some dark, foreboding cavern with little hope of escape. I actually think its gargantuan size helps the atmosphere of the level, and it’s fun to play a really robust and open map sometimes. I felt exhausted when I finished it.

I liked giving the automap early to players so it would help them not get lost as much. I also liked how tight ammo was, which meant that when you released the two cybies, you had to build up your arsenal more before you confronted them. Other little touches, like the beautiful main elevators, or having to power on the facility before you exited, were a delight to see in this map. And the number of secrets made the explorer in me light up, despite only finding 3 or so.

However I had three problems I had with it: specters in the pitch black after the red skull key, the AV that is nearly unavoidable after the red keycard, and the yellow skull key trap that can (and will) easily lead to fatalities due to how close the hitscanners are and no armor given beforehand. I feel like every other map handles enemy placement and position quite well compared to some of the frustrating traps here.

It was definitely an interesting map though. Kudos to the mappers for delivering a unique feeling, although I feel bad because it probably stands out as the least “replayable” due to sheer size… it must’ve been hell to playtest for.

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MAP12: A fun, small, but intelligently designed map. This one was extremely trap heavy, but none of the traps bothered me since they were all quite well designed. Plus there was enough room to move around that the plethora of projectiles was pretty fun to weave in and out of.

One of my favorite things about it is the chest high walls in the starting arena. I never realized how useful they were, because it allows cover for Doomguy, but enemies above can still hit you and the arachnatrons don’t lose line of sight with you, which means they won’t stop firing at your position which forces you to take that into account when you move out of cover. Very smart!

Two nitpicks are that the rocket launcher feels like it’s given too late in the level (plus all the rocket ammo was very alarming for me, making me backtrack for 4-5 minutes just to make sure I didn't miss the RL), and that the PEs spawning in such large arenas means that there is going to be a mighty swarm of Lost Souls to take care of (in my game, I had over 200 spawn). However, these are just slight nitpicks that didn’t detract heavily from the overall quality of the map. I had a lot of fun.

And the chaingunner + revenant fight was surprisingly well tuned! I thought I was going to hate it since my health depleted so fast, but I survived on my first try. It was a pleasant surprise (although the following wave of revenants took care of me).

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MAP13: Great start to the map! I love the feeling of having to whiz by arachnatrons to collect ammo and start doling out the pain. It wasn’t long into the map however when I realized the theme: tough monsters and two weapons to take care of them. I always appreciate when a map tries to go for something different, especially since the RL and PG are always given as situational weapons and never as the main course.

This map differs from some of Phobus’ other maps in that the architecture isn’t so noticeably... odd this time. Sure there’s a lot of bizarre little things to look at, but there aren't any windy corridors, tight spiraling spaces, or absurdly dark areas. Everything is out in the open.

Speaking about being open, this map gives a big “slaughter” vibe to it, although there’s barely over 100 enemies. Nothing was too rough as, say, chaingunners in a tower, but each enemy was threatening enough to keep you on your feet. I felt the spider mastermind fight was a little odd/awkward in that arena with no cover (forcing you to play peek-a-shoot in the trenches) but all three cyberdemon fights were a pleasure. I like too that you HAD to kill a cyberdemon to exit the map, although the exit could’ve been a bit more clearly pointed out (since it looked just like another switch).

Overall, neat level.

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MAP14: An excellent level that got better as it progressed. I noticed that it also had an interesting start: a rocket launcher only beginning. These are always fun since any close-proximity battles become a nightmare (making imps pose a serious threat). Although other weapons were eventually given to help out, the map only got more difficult as it went on.

It was fun to play a map with a theme where every time you backtrack, more and more hell gets unleashed. I actually tried to outrun most of the revenants at one time, and got blown to smithereens quite quickly. Thus I had to take a more cautious approach to it, looking out for secrets when I could to help me. One in particular at least got me eye-level with some revs so I could blow them away, which was a big help. Secrets that don't just give items, but give a tactical advantage, are a welcome change.

It was also quite a stunning level visually. Although I can’t recall any specific rooms that stand out, none of them were bland or boring, since there was plenty of architecture and a wide variety of textures. Overall it was a fun map that kept surprising me. I definitely feel a lot of hand crafted love here.

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Map 22: After Map21, this map almost feels like a letdown in comparison. However, it's still pretty damn mazy and the tight corridors make it fairly challenging. Oh yeah, and five required keys can get somewhat irritating.

In a side note, I'm pretty much ahead of the pack now.

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Map21: Oh boy here we are then, the most overrated map of 2012. I tried to like it, but it just wasn't enjoyable to play. Sure it was large, intricate and imaginative, but the garish colors burned my eyes and the confusing layout made me almost quit in frustration. None of the sights wowed me and there were no interesting fights.

I guess there was a story of sorts, but I didn't really follow it aside from the texts appearing in consoles.

I can see that a lot of blood, sweat and tears was put into this map, but it still rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe I'm just a victim of hype...

Map20 was somewhat better but it suffered from the same issues to a lesser degree. Both maps could have used some better music.

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Map19: Not a bad map, ok visuals and some good difficulty. I really liked the cybie and rev fight at the start but the cybie spawning in at the end was kind of weird and unneccesary. Not that special.
Map20: Pretty cool map, nice visuals and good progression. I didnt really care for the spidermastermind fight, that fight is only possible with the invul secret and then its trivial but still annoying.

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just a couple of quick notes about maps 16 and 17...

16 was the arena one with the 4 mysterious numbered buildings and a whole load of monsters waiting to pounce on you. I loved the look of this and the general idea, but I did die a lot on one particular bit where a bunch of arch viles appear outside and start bringing an army back to life unless you go out and try and find enough cover to take on about 3 of them at once plus their resurrected friends. This was probably the first time in the wad so far that I felt frustrated - dealing with viles like that often involves a fair amount of luck.

map 17 - I really liked the look of this one, the blue and red theme was very stylish, and some of the fights were quite brutal - I died a lot but mostly through my own stupidity, there was so much ammo and health dotted around that I got a bit rambo and felt invincible. The monsters thought otherwise. There were switches and hunting for switches that occasionally wore a bit thin.

onwards!

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Map21
I can respect it as a technical achievement, but after 30 minutes of play, I'm yet to hit a single moment of gameplay where I'm actually having fun. This is the second level in the set (16 being the other) that has led me to seriously consider quitting.

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@Capellan - Map32 was the one map I really couldn't stand...yet I had to finish it due to compulsive desire to at least beat every level in a megawad. (100% doesn't matter that much to me, anyway.)

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I haven't seen map32. I forgot to look for the secret exit on map15 :)

Just finished map21. Definitely not a level I enjoyed.

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Map16

I didn't mind this one at all. Nothing too taxing, there was always enough room to maneuvre around whatever monsters were in the outside section. Got caught a couple of times..an arachnotron from the other side of the map when i was sniping at a door on the opposite side (clever) and an archvile on the outside wall when I was running for space from a horde of barons (a bit cheap imo). The other archviles which resurrected monsters could have been a problem, but I didn't play from pistol start so I could just sweep them away with the BFG.

The pole running thing was easy enough, don't know how anyone's going to fall off there?

The main source of fun for me here was just getting monsters to infight. Perhaps I wouldn't want every level to be set up like this, but it was a nice break after Map32..speaking of which I did get round to finishing it, that final battle was a test of patience!

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Map22
None of the visual flair or innovative design of map 21 is on display here. It is, however, much more fun: a straightforward old school Doom level. It didn't need 5 keys, but apart from that I have no complaints.

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Map 15
pistol start on HMP, 2 deaths, completed on 3rd attempt

Random thoughts while playing (not a blind run)

"Wow, all the armor is out of the ways places. I bet someone missed it all and griped about it being too hard."
"No teleporting monsters, neat (bzzzt), OK no teleporting monsters past getting the yellow key."
"Want plasma. (wallhump, wallhump, wallhump) OK, that was random but it works."
"One armor bonus in a line of health bonuses, seems a bit suspicious."
"Now playing, Monster Peek-a-Boo aka fast door abuse"
"Rocket from above."
"Missing that SSG shot is really bad, hmmm I think I heard something open."
"Secret exit, first time without cheats, yes."

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Map23: A pretty weird map this one is, but then again, the outdoor area with the yin-yang symbol was the hardest part, especially when the cybo came out to play. There was also the one battle near the exit.

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Incoming second block of text.

MAP15: A good map that has another classic standard Doom feeling to it—slightly linear path, collect three keys, switches to press everywhere, etc. Architecture is nice and I always appreciate the “inside/outside” dichotomy in a map, although I found myself backtracking quite a bit to find out if new paths opened up. Ammo and health were a tad plentiful compared to the previous maps, and there weren’t any nasty traps at all (hardest part was probably dealing with the demons in the acid bridge segment, which I thought was handled excellently… it’s a very cool mechanic.)

Only nitpick is that it’s too complicated to find the secret exit. I appreciated the air duct sequence, but once I couldn’t get the gate open to the final area, I just clipped through it since I had already found every other secret and didn’t care to keep looking for just one switch to hit. It’s still a fun and well designed level however. (Although reading everyone elses' opinions, I seem to be a moron at finding secret exits)

I think part of the reason it doesn’t feel as difficult as the other maps is that this one was slotted for MAP15 early on (presumably), so TGH didn’t get to rearrange it to provide for a more balanced difficulty curve. It works fine for being a lull in the set though.

Also, similar to glenzinho, I found the use of the force field confusing since they block you in every other map. Not the fault of the author though.

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MAP31: A difficult map that’s less about traps and far more about enemy height variation. At all times traveling through the map you have to watch all sides since there’s going to be rev and manc fireballs up the wazoo. It plays fantastically and has a strange but natural layout, however, the details here are minimal and the texture use is extremely reticent (the two uses of STARTAN were quite surprising). The problem this has on the map is that it’s very maze-like, and while I appreciate shortcuts constantly appearing, I found myself feeling lost quite a bit. I think that a few distinct landmarks would’ve helped.

It’s still a fun map, one that really emphasizes game design over architecture, which leads it to be an extremely satisfying play overall... even if the eye-candy is noticeably missing.

One of the things I want to note is that throughout all my deaths, I never felt like it was cheap. That’s a very important feeling to convey in a map for me.

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MAP32: While I was playing through this map, two words kept popping up in my mind: FEVER DREAM. This map felt like it was made under the influence of something heavy or dangerous; it was surreal without going overboard, but even too odd for the design philosophy of the early 90s wads.

There were some really neat, unique things about this map, like how the landscape would constantly change and rooms would connect in surprising ways (“oh, so I was close to that place?!”). Another surprising part was how loose and big it felt, but only once did I get lost and not know where to go next. Going through the level was surprisingly straight forward.

But everything else... was just bizarre. The architecture and blend of textures was cacophonous (probably on purpose), there was a very meager amount of health (I saw no healing items for the final fight, which is a huge error in my opinion), and finally, a lot of the fights were just... problematic. The AVs in the prison area and the small, pyramid-esk area with the horde of enemies were the most offensive. The first because you just WASTE ammo trying to push through enemies one-by-one to get to the AV in a narrow corridor as he constantly raises baddies, and the second because the height differences in the floor were detrimental to seeing enemies. In fact, a lot of the troubling fights for me came down to problems I had dancing around the arena. In only one fight did it add to the tension, in all the others, it just got in the way. The difficulty felt very similar to the “BS” difficulty in the earlier CCs (aka HAVE FUN NOT KNOWING WHERE TRAPS ARE).

I think this level is an interesting contrast to the last one, considering how minimal, but smart, the height variation was used in MAP31, while MAP32 is just a smorgasbord of bumps and steps. Overall it’s not a bad map, but it just comes across as probably the lowpoint out of the entire megawad so far. It does shine through as the most unique level however.

BONUS: I got to witness a pinkie take down an arachnatron!

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MAP16: No idea where all the ire for this map came from. It’s a solid map with plenty of visuals and “pop” in the architecture, along with some interesting fights. Perhaps people don’t like fighting in large square rooms, but I didn’t mind it since 1) it’s a drastic change from the previous levels (like the ever shifting
Mutare) and 2) I like fighting in an arena since you get to know the layout pretty well.

My only nitpicks with it are that the arena was perhaps too big, since there’s a lot of open space (which trivialized the threat of the HKs at the red key path (revs probably would’ve worked better) and the AVs on the borders of the arena were really obnoxious (again felt like revs would be a nice substitute). But barring the backseat-mapping critique, I still thought it was fun and moderately difficult.

Then again, maybe it’s just because I enjoy slaughter maps and I did avoid having to do the pole running the real way.

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A shame purist dropped out to focus on Progressive Fiction more. I would’ve loved to hear his opinions on the last few maps.

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Just finished map 18, that was a complex sprawling treat. I especially liked the non linear start, was quite tough with just a pistol. As it progressed i got lost a bit, but it was an adventuresome kind of lost rather than a tiresome one. A couple of the traps were a bit annoying but mostly the fights were fair (apart from the invisible arch vile, naughty).

There were some weird bugs, if bugs they were... monsters in the central outdoor bit trying to shoot me but their bullets hitting invisible walls, until i got closer to them. And the spider mastermind just sat there doing nothing while I pumped him full of shotgun shells.

Nice map, took me ages. Many a secret left unfound.

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dobugabumaru said:

A shame purist dropped out to focus on Progressive Fiction more. I would’ve loved to hear his opinions on the last few maps.


Probably a series of whines about how the maps are all too long for my tastes! I was starting to feel mean bitching on these lovingly crafted beautiful works of mapping art because they don't fulfil this niche preference of mine.

Has the next megawad been decided on yet? I'm hoping to get re-involved with DWMWC next time around.

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Map21: The visuals and design are amazing, the best map visualwise this year *******ly. Gameplaywise it was good but not fantastic. All in all a fantastic map and my definite favorite of the megawad.
Map22: Nice plutonia style map with good gameplay and visuals. Good job :)

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Cheers green herring. Its a great set of maps, speaking of which...

Map 19, this was a great laugh from pistol start. My god, I don't know how many times I died trying to get out the first area in one piece but I was enjoying it all the while. And then the 2 cyberdemons and their prison buddies was a quite a hilarious battle. Very hectic, I liked this one.

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