Election 2012: Conservatards vs Librodouches

myk said:

Minor parties play marginal roles and there is no guarantee they will play the same role if they get big. High level decision making can only be measured under its own conditions. It's one thing to declaim and demand certain things from a few parliamentary seats, another to run a country.

The same could be said for larger parties, though. They might promise the world during the election, but it doesn't mean to say they'll manager to deliver it if they come to power. And you'll never know what the minor parties are capable of unless they're given a chance. People refuse to vote for change, then bitch when they don't get it.

myk said:

It's financial meddling, not the fact that two parties tend to come out on top. Or perhaps what I'm saying is a better way to really pinpoint what this "two party system" really is.

Regardless of how financial meddling affects the voting system, you should still be more concerned with how financial meddling runs the whole world. Whoever is elected will still have a shadowy puppet master pulling the strings and influencing policy. It's not democracy anymore if the elected representative isn't really elected and doesn't really represent.

Try not to cry.

Krispy said:

Try not to cry.

Ah hah hah hah, oh god what.

I wonder how many Romney voters are like the woman at 0:54.
If you think your presidential candidate is a Christian after him saying a million times over the campaign that he's a Mormon, than... just... wow.

And Romney would be kicking himself over this Jeep jobs lie... if he wasn't so busy steaming ahead and demanding it was true even when Jeep execs are repeatedly saying that it isn't. And in Ohio, a state that KNOWS the auto industry, to boot! It boggles the mind.

Would vote for Obama if I was in the US.

Quoted from video:

(woman for Romney)
"He's a family man, he's a Christian, he doesn't believe in abortion, he doesn't beleive in homosexuality, and let me tell ya, I believe in God, and God is going to make sure that Mr. Romney wins."

(same woman for Obama)
"His father was a Muslim, his father was an atheist, his father was a communist"

"So was his father an atheist or was his father a muslim"
"He was all three."
--

(same woman for Obama)
"He isn't a good president. He isn't an honourable human being, I don't believe that he's a good American, I don't believe he really cares for my country. I care for America, and he doesn't. Not only that, he's dividing America"
--

I know that not all supporters for either side are like this, but this hag really bugs me. Oh, and Meat Loaf supports Romney at 6:24

Props to the 0.9% voting for others.

Would be interesting to see which war mongering puppet wins, either way it makes no difference.

I feel bad for my dad. He's what they call a Goldwater Republican. He probably knows full well that Romney isn't a conservative in any sense of the word, but he'll vote for him anyway because he doesn't know what to make of the world any more.
Poor old guy.

Bucket said:

I feel bad for my dad. He's what they call a Goldwater Republican. He probably knows full well that Romney isn't a conservative in any sense of the word, but he'll vote for him anyway because he doesn't know what to make of the world any more.
Poor old guy.

Sounds like an accurate description for half the people in the US. Most people don't know what they're voting for nowadays because it suits those in power to keep them in the dark. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when a Russian news agency is doing more for democracy in your country than any of your own tv networks. None of them would broadcast live coverage of third party candidate debates. None of them draw attention to the flaws in the electoral system. None of them even mention the financial backers that actually run your country.

Necromancer-AMV said:

If you think your presidential candidate is a Christian after him saying a million times over the campaign that he's a Mormon, than... just... wow.

It's still more acceptable to the fundies and evangelicals than "atheist", "Muslim", "Satanist", "the Anti-Christ himself", or the actual truth, which is "largely irreligious".

What's the beef between Christians and Mormons? The latter believe some weird shit like Lucifer was Jesus' brother, Jesus came to America and was an Indian for a while, and when we all die, as long as we're wearing our robes, we get to be paired up and become the God and Goddess of our own new personal worlds? Forgettable stuff when the guy you're going to vote for is promising to enforce the same bullshit you believe in on everybody else.

BTW, talking about third parties is beating the dead horse. Until there's an actual revolution in this country, third parties will not exist. The system is now built ground up not just to marginalize them but to make it literally impossible in most cases for them to be in power or have ANY influence, however small.

Wow I'm glad I'm not in America, with "them" Buddhists coming and ruining my country.


(Yep, a guy near the end of the video, when asked who "them" is referring to sort of shrugs a bit and says Buddhists. "Them... they're out there. We all know it.")

Krispy said:

Try not to cry.

Crying would imply that I was surprised. I've seen this kind of ignorance on both sides.

I think a lot of people (like the ones featured in this video) get some idea in their heads about what their candidate represents, some idealized version of their candidate that lines up nicely with their personal values, and they stick with that, regardless of what any evidence suggests the contrary. I'd say a lot of people do the same for candidates they dislike, which this video also demonstrates.

Necromancer-AMV said:

If you think your presidential candidate is a Christian after him saying a million times over the campaign that he's a Mormon, than... just... wow.

Part of the issue is that 'Christian' is a pretty broad term these days, at least in the context of American culture. To me, if you say you're a Christian, it's still rather vague and doesn't really mean much unless you clarify it somehow or elaborate further. 'Christian' can be substituted for 'Protestant' and 'Catholic', which by themselves encompass a gigantic portion of the population. Not to mention the dozens of different subdivisions and branches of each of those. It's not much of a stretch for most people to throw Mormonism in there as well.

Quasar said:

It's still more acceptable to the fundies and evangelicals than "atheist", "Muslim", "Satanist", "the Anti-Christ himself", or the actual truth, which is "largely irreligious".

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain this to me---why they classify Obama as atheist, irreligious or agnostic.

Granted, I don't know the guy personally. I don't know what he really, truly thinks. But in my mind, attending the same church for 20 years doesn't indicate apathy, disbelief, or antipathy towards religion or the supernatural.

Caffeine Freak said:

To me, if you say you're a Christian, it's still rather vague and doesn't really mean much unless you clarify it somehow or elaborate further.

Heck, I consider myself a Christian Atheist.

I don't believe in the existence of the supernatural or divine. However, culturally I've been immersed in Christianity, what with it shaping so much of the landscape (churches, etc.), history, and even language. Also, on the social and philosophical aspects, I think Jesus was mostly right. Coincidentally, those are precisely the points on which those religious Christians completely ignore the words and acts of their Messiah.

Jesus hanged out with pariahs, hobos, whores and criminals, and treated them with respect. He admonished people not to kill an adulterous woman, calling these murderous self-righteous bullies a bunch of hypocrites. He disliked greed, and promoted sharing and paying one's taxes dutifully. The only people he seemed to have really, truly disliked were merchants.

If you strip away the religious baggage, Jesus Christ was pretty much a hardcore communist.

But American Christians tend to forget about all that. They don't see Jesus as that weirdo who washed the feet of beggars and told wealthy people to abandon all their riches. They see him as a doorway. The key is to call him "my Lord and Savior", and tada, you can enter paradise. The rest is irrelevant. The New Testament is useless drivel; what matters is the Old Testament because it's the one in which it says gay people are yucky. And also, there are two kinds of people: the reprobates who are predestined to go to Hell forever so who cares about them; and the elect who are predestined to go to Heaven so you know they're okay dudes. And to know which people have God's favor, you can just look at their situation: if they are wealthy, it's because they are favored by God, and therefore you know they are among the elects. If they are poor, it's because God hates them, and therefore you know they are among the reprobates. The wallet is a direct measure of someone's sainthood; this is why "In God We Trust" is written on banknotes.

Caffeine Freak said:

'Christian' can be substituted for 'Protestant' and 'Catholic', which by themselves encompass a gigantic portion of the population. Not to mention the dozens of different subdivisions and branches of each of those. It's not much of a stretch for most people to throw Mormonism in there as well.

You forgot the Orthodoxes. And Catholics aren't really subdivided; unless you make a division between lapsed and practicing.

Caffeine Freak said:

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain this to me---why they classify Obama as atheist, irreligious or agnostic.

"They"?

He's Christian, self-described:

I'm a Christian by choice. My family didn't – frankly, they weren't folks who went to church every week. And my mother was one of the most spiritual people I knew, but she didn't raise me in the church. So I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead – being my brothers' and sisters' keeper, treating others as they would treat me. I think also understanding that Jesus Christ dying for my sins spoke to the humility we all have to have as human beings, that we're sinful and we're flawed and we make mistakes, and that we achieve salvation through the grace of God. But what we can do, as flawed as we are, is still see God in other people and do our best to help them find their own grace. That's what I strive to do. That's what I pray to do every day. I think my public service is part of that effort to express my Christian faith. --President Obama, 2010

I understand your point about mormonism being derived from christianity, but although they both roughly believe in Jesus Christ, they are vastly different in many beliefs.

Personally, I don't care what beliefs the president is. As long as he holds one core belief true above all else; the church and the state must remain separate, and the churches policies should never be used as a doctrine for government.

I voted Jello Biafra.

Mr. Freeze said:

I voted Jello Biafra.

Good man.

eargosedown said:

"They"?

He's Christian, self-described:

Sorry, I should have clarified: I was talking specifically about the people in this thread who have said that about Obama (that he's an atheist, agnostic or irreligious).

Who gives a shit if he's atheist or not? Personally I'd prefer an atheist. Mix it up a little. Go crazy.

Krispy said:

Who gives a shit if he's atheist or not? Personally I'd prefer an atheist. Mix it up a little. Go crazy.

Many Americans actually do. They feel that morality can only be directed through religion, and anyone without a religious foundation will, in all senses, be morally corrupt.

Election Results updated live at CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/main

Every site I go to is giving a different count on electoral votes, it seems.

Mr. Freeze said:

I voted Jello Biafra.

About a year ago I had decided I was going to do this. But almost everyone I know has caught Romney fever and I wanted to give my part of the world some balance. Also, apparently I agree with Obama on some stuff.

Apparently I should be voting for Jill Stein, according to this.

http://www.isidewith.com/results/227900082

According to the map at CNN, Obama's getting a comfortable lead in Florida. Looks like Romney gets Wisconsin, which is amusing since this state's motto is Obama's campaign slogan. However, the Democrats will keep Minnesota and Iowa.

Utah votes for the Mormon candidate. Anyone surprised?

The way things are going at the moment, I predict 309 electors for Obama and 229 for Romney.

Obama won. Congrats USA. You made the right decision.

I'm going to enjoy posting this many times over the next few days.

Great, now that atheist Muslim nigger's plan to destroy the world ecanamy will be realized.

Whatever. After 12 years of increasing national debt, what's 4 more?

Oh good, now I don't have to worry about working my ass off at the Canadian border.