Doom2Remake By Me !*Pre-alpha v0.3 GamePlay Footage*!

Impboy4 said:

I hate to break it to you, but you're going to get a cease and desist letter from id Software if you continue this. Just warning you.

So I guess these guys must be in really deep shit....yeah, really deep shit.

The only real "danger" such projects face is that a) They are too damn much work b) They are tied to only one engine or c) They don't even have a specific engine with which they have been tested for compliancy/performance, so what that time comes things fall apart and a lot of work went in vain. This is true both of model/retexturing as well as of the various "high res sprites models" (those are pointless for other reasons too).

Thus, IMO, this leaves very little space for stuff like this or this. This one is a more recent oddity, I should probably check it out. There's also Doom.NET, one of the few "recreations" that is binary compatible with IWAD data (the other being, to the best of my knowledge, the defunct STARK engine).

Personally, I don't see the point for a recreation using a completely different engine which cannot reuse any the original data, as you can reuse almost nothing from the original, and contribute almost nothing back to the community. Most of them just made it to the point of a monster and a test level or two, then their authors abandonded them simply because producing anything more than that is simply monumental, too much work for a single person, and because the gameplay is very hard to finetune from scratch. At that point, it makes more sense going the path of a full-blown source port, not a recreation.

First of all Doom Ascension is not a re-make, it uses the Doomsday engine and needs the iWads from Doom to function. These are replacement textures and models etc. Very much like what the Jdoom Resource Pack is.

Now about this project I would be worried about it because of two reasons.

1) Its very likely to be shut down by ID because it 'IS' a remake not requiring any of the original assets or even 'owning' a copy of the original game. This 'IS' illegal :(

2) Putting the above aside for now, just like what Maes said, its way too much work for one person to do! However, it is early days so if it does go ahead and some example work gets put together and demonstrated, perhaps Sahkan will open up posts for people to join a team and help push development along.

Overall this is a cool thing to be doing, but I think some 'research' is needed first before it falls flat on its face!

bcwood16 said:

1) Its very likely to be shut down by ID because it 'IS' a remake not requiring any of the original assets or even 'owning' a copy of the original game. This 'IS' illegal :(

I linked to projects that are remakes and yet, they don't appear to have come under fire -until now. Probably it's a case of "none cares".

Oh and, meet the granddaddy of all Doom remakes (N.B., this was made BEFORE the actual source code release and thus before actual unofficial source ports existed, in 1996 ;-)

At which point does something become "annoying" for id? Let's see...slapping the name "Doom" on your product (with a qualifier) seems to be A-OK. There are so many variants that I lost count: Doom 3D, Doom 2011, Doom for Java, Doom.NET, Doom 2D, etc. you name it.

Let's see...lookalike resources? I can see why this would be a problem (and Freedoom doesn't accept "too close" lookalikes), but many of those "remakes" actually use ripped resources, and in rare cases, reworked ones (the ZX one seem heavily reworked, but still clearly identifiable in most cases), and all is fine and dandy.

In the end, I think it's simply the sheer volume of the task at hands that makes overly ambitious projects collapse under their own weight, as it unfolds. A model and a texture don't make a game, unfortunately. Maybe a good first project for an apprentice/hobbyist game developer, but no more.

The above being said, I think Sahkan has some obvious talent in 3D modeling, and I'd rather see him contribute to a well-established project like Doom Ascension, which can never have too many modelers, than doom (pardon the pun) his work to obscurity or, worse, legal persecution (however unprobable).

Maes said:

At which point does something become "annoying" for id? Let's see...slapping the name "Doom" on your product (with a qualifier) seems to be A-OK. There are so many variants that I lost count: Doom 3D, Doom 2011, Doom for Java, Doom.NET, Doom 2D, etc. you name it.

Let's see...lookalike resources? I can see why this would be a problem (and Freedoom doesn't accept "too close" lookalikes), but many of those "remakes" actually use ripped resources, and in rare cases, reworked ones (the ZX one seem heavily reworked, but still clearly identifiable in most cases), and all is fine and dandy.

In the end, I think it's simply the sheer volume of the task at hands that makes overly ambitious projects collapse under their own weight, as it unfolds. A model and a texture don't make a game, unfortunately. Maybe a good first project for an apprentice/hobbyist game developer, but no more.

Some good points, I would have thought some of those projects would have been shut down like uDoom was, but I guess its almost a matter of who 'Annoys' ID the most. I would still think this project would be under threat of a shut down by ID and I certainly would not want to take that chance unless I had confirmation it was all ok. If ID was to allow this project to be made im sure they would want details of what exactly is being done with documentation stating whats is allowed and not etc etc....something I doubt ID will even bother with as it would need to go through proper procedures.......I would have thought anyway, maybe I'm talking rubbish I dont know, but if it was my project I would find out.

Anyways! Whatever happens I wish this project well and shall be following it.

Sahkan - I know you have already contacted ID (let us know if you get a reply), but what ever you decide to do, just tred lightly and check things out :) Once the project gets going im sure the community will help you massively if you need it :)

bcwood16 said:

Sahkan - I know you have already contacted ID

IMO, he probably shot himself in the foot by doing that. It all depends on who reads his email first, and how high up it gets. The higher up and the more technical eyes read it, the better. The lowest it stays and the more clerical/legal eyes see it, the worse.

If e.g. it reaches all the way to John Carmack, he may laugh it off and say "Sure, it's OK", as his position, experience, seniority and confidence tell him that this is no threat, actually it's yet another praise for his work.

If however it receives too much attention from an over-ambitious pointy-haired legal manager whose job is to file lawsuits (or some paranoid clerk who prefers "playing it safe"), it's over.

Maes said:

IMO, he probably shot himself in the foot by doing that. It all depends on who reads his email first, and how high up it gets. The higher up and the more technical eyes read it, the better. The lowest it stays and the more clerical/legal eyes see it, the worse.

If e.g. it reaches all the way to John Carmack, he may laugh it off and say "Sure, it's OK", as his position, experience, seniority and confidence tell him that this is no threat, actually it's yet another praise for his work.

If however it receives too much attention from an over-ambitious pointy-haired legal manager whose job is to file lawsuits (or some paranoid clerk who prefers "playing it safe"), it's over.

Totally agree, though im thinking it may just get ignored, which if thats the case, is extremely frustrating. However, there are lots of people at ID, so perhaps trying to chase down who would be best suited to receive the email and contact them directly would be best - again research is needed.

Oh well, lets hope for the best.

Reinchard666 said:

It is texture from my pack?
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/60299-reinchards-wip-textures-and-sprites-demo-available/12/

I downloaded some jdoom textures pack i'v found somewhere and used it, If you like it i can use yours for the next textures :)

PRIMEVAL said:

Sorta old, been planning on redoing it, but this is an example of what I can do. ;)

This is awesome man, I will use it if you dont mind :)

Sahkan said:

I downloaded some jdoom textures pack i'v found somewhere and used it, If you like it i can use yours for the next textures :)

You already did it with my floor01 (I recognize this and most of my texture are now in jdoom pack). Of course they are all free for use. Good work. I have 3d models for most of them.

Sahkan said:

This is awesome man, I will use it if you dont mind :)

You can if you'd like but the video itself isn't high quality and I no longer have a higher quality version, lost it in a computer reformat awhile ago along with a few other remakes.

Reinchard666 said:

You already did it with my floor01 (I recognize this and most of my texture are now in jdoom pack). Of course they are all free for use. Good work. I have 3d models for most of them.

Cool :D . 3d models you say ? care to share ? :)

All this "id is gonna send you a letter to you if you continue this" is total bullshit.

The only case I know of id Software bringing down a Doom project, is when some guys from BrDoom tryed to import all models and sounds from Doom 3 into Doom 2 and making a whole new game from it, and Carmack himself mailed them. This just because they were STEALING official models made by id Software to put in a freeware game.

If remaking models, sprites, textures, or anything that resembles the stuff in Doom were illegal, then Sitters Electronics, the whole FreeDoom team and the DHRP team would be in jail right now.




And back to the project's topic, I don't like the imp model so far. He is very weird, comical, and unnatural, and his skin makes it look like if it was made out of chocolate.

There's a big difference between what Freedoom is doing and what this guy is doing. This project is an obvious case of plagiarising Doom2. It's cute when you guys can't see the difference between one thing that is a derivative product and a straight rip off. Or that you can't understand the difference between making a modification of Doom for Doom, and making a new game from plagiarising the Doom resources.

And for what it's worth. There was a project like this before. Actually, there were several. But one project in particular that didn't make it online before id caught wind of them making it. It was a Quake3 mod actually. Based on Doom. They had several of the models and a bit of level work done before id came and closed them down with a cease and desist. And they weren't even as straight in the plagiarism as this project is. Just an FYI.

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

And back to the project's topic, I don't like the imp model so far. He is very weird, comical, and unnatural, and his skin makes it look like if it was made out of chocolate.

I actually like how it walks with a proud "swag", unlike its usual stereotypical predator hunching/stalking stance. It almost looks like a pimp, ready to bitch-slap you. Imagine the zombies also walking with a similar swag ;-)

The Unreal community wanted to do a Quake remake for Unreal. id Software said no and the project was canceled. What about legal issues in remaking just Knee Deep in the Dead?

The best thing to do in such cases is to just complete whatever you're working on, and try keeping under the radar ;-)

What does this mean, practically?

• Announcing that you want to made a remake of X for engine Y in an obscure forum like this one full of people with no life: very safe.
  
• Making a test level/resources for said project and posting them in an obscure thread of an obscure forum: still quite safe
  
• Making a playable alpha/short demo that you could call a "game", but still only posting on said forum: still safe, but you risk linking/mirroring, and more undue attention.
  
• Announcing your masterpiece on a mainstream gaming forum: not a very good idea.
  
• Feeding it to the various software sharks websites to copy and replicate ad infinitum, along with a description of what it is and what it's related do: a risky idea if it goes for free, a definitively bad idea if you charge money for it in any way.
  
• Making a dedicated, public webpage about it, bragging about what it is, and including source/resource repositories if applicable: VERY bad idea, unless you have all legalities in order.
  

So, as long as your project only exists through DW threads, you should be alright...if you stray anywhere on the outside however, all bets are off.

Maes said:

The best thing to do in such cases is to just complete whatever you're working on, and try keeping under the radar ;-)

What does this mean, practically?
[list]

Announcing that you want to made a remake of X for engine Y in an obscure forum like this one full of people with no life: very safe.
off.

My self esteem is under attack :(

Sahkan said:

My self esteem is under attack :(

Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger...or so they say ;-)

*26/1/13 update*:
Basic mesh for Doom 2 Entryway ( With blender game engine so you can feel how it is like inside,Please ignore the bumpy stairs this is just blender engine stuff... ) :
http://www.mediafire.com/?e13m6q1qd88pnyy
Also thanks to TheWeekle for the background music :)

Ok i'v added a video of the map :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCcsxd1e0Ho

Layout looks good. Music doesn't play for me, though.

PRIMEVAL said:

Layout looks good. Music doesn't play for me, though.

I had to pack the music, here a link to the file with music ( fixed ) :
http://www.mediafire.com/?7olid99n19yxapw

*29/1/12 update*:
Imp walkcycle + hit animation #4 ( Smoother and fits more to the character ) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqgMN6Ak_1o

*30.1.13 Update*:
The game so far built with unity 4, there are alot to fix but i want to update with my workflow, please let me know what you think, ( If you have dx11 support on you vga card you can see tessekation smooth on the imp and if you dont it will just look normal ) :http://www.mediafire.com/?ng47z6ill17v7le

*31.1.13 Update*:
Blender workflow, still need to make the textures better .
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3921/workflowe.jpg

*1/2/13 Update*:
Textures workflow :
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5069/workflow2h.jpg
going for low poly meshes for these walls and columns because it dosnt look so good with normal maps only .

Look's good. Using models for some walls and columns is a good idea.

Sahkan said:

*1/2/13 Update*:
Textures workflow :
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5069/workflow2h.jpg
going for low poly meshes for these walls and columns because it dosnt look so good with normal maps only .

This looks wierd , because everything is dirty/old but the floor.
When do you plan the ceiling?

joe-ilya said:

This looks wierd , because everything is dirty/old but the floor.
When do you plan the ceiling?

Hehe, you got a point there, i guess i will go for the ceiling last because it may obscure my view on the other stuff .

*2/1/13 Update*:
I'v fixed the textures difference :
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9789/workflow3.png
*Don't post huge images in img tags - use thumbails and/or a link*