LA Shooting. How is the 2nd amendment going to weather this storm?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/07/18831196-five-dead-including-gunman-in-shooting-rampage-near-los-angeles?lite

The American continent has had another shooting involving an illegal assault machine gun. When will this end?

AR-15 is just an M-16 variant, without the 3-round burst. It's effectively a legal semiautomatic rifle, not a machine gun. In fact, it's less powerful than your average hunting rifle, since the rounds are designed to tumble and maim, rather than outright kill. It's pretty good for target shooting though.

I was just being sarcastic, the media always blow things out of proportion and that was what I tried to highlight with my post.

http://world.guns.ru/civil/usa/ar-15-e.html The media always paint the Ar15 as a devastating machine gun that fires 6000 RPM and can penetrate a building.

Five people dead and the discussion is about how accurately the weapon was described?

Well it could be about how I'm a shithead for cheering on spree shootings.

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neubejiita said:

How is the 2nd amendment going to weather this storm?

Perfectly fine. It's the only amendment the US populace give a shit about. The first, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth can go to hell (they're on the way, to everyone's complete indifference); the second will endure forever.

neubejiita said:

When will this end?

Never.

40oz said:

Well it could be about how I'm a shithead for cheering on spree shootings.

Now that you're here, it will be.

neubejiita said:

How is the 2nd amendment going to weather this storm?

As if nothing had happened. I expect some NRA mouthpiece will be rolled out shortly to recite their tired mantra about how the situation could have been mitigated if there were more good guys on the streets carrying guns.

Fun Fact - the current gun buying frenzy in the US is creating ammo shortages in Australia. That's something else we no longer appear to be manufacturing, despite having more firearms than before the Port Arthur massacre.

I can't wait for the future, when every public building has it's own kill-bot for defense. I imagine something with two gun turrets on each side, and a thresher in the middle, that walks on bird-like legs. But just imagine the fire power private school could afford.

Oy ve... not this again. Why is it every time we hear about a shooting rampage, an AR-15 is involved? Honestly, I'm friggin' done with the whole issue. I just don't get it. People keep talking about self-defense, but AR-15s have nothing to do with self-defense. Sure, I know, you ban them, these nutters will choose another gun, and I'm against the outright ban of guns, but I'm just saying... there's a reason these freaks keep using this model. Let's at least try to make it a little more difficult for them, maybe?

Kontra Kommando said:

I can't wait for the future, when every public building has it's own kill-bot for defense. I imagine something with two gun turrets on each side, and a thresher in the middle, that walks on bird-like legs. But just imagine the fire power private school could afford.

Like this?



That can go terribly wrong ;-)

Maes said:

Like this?

https://wiki.base22.com/download/attachments/56397167/ed1.jpg?api=v2

That can go terribly wrong ;-)

True lol

Imagine gang violence in the streets if they had possession of these?

Maes said:

That can go terribly wrong ;-)

yea, the bot would fall and cripple itself on a flight of stairs, heh. why not a bunch of surveillance cameras and a minicopter drone or two?

Kontra Kommando said:

True lol

Imagine gang violence in the streets if they had possession of these?

You never saw the original Robocop movie, did you? ;-)

dew said:

a minicopter drone or two?

Those can crash even more easily than the ED-209 can trip ;-)

Maes said:

You never saw the original Robocop movie, did you

I have, I actually posted the scene where Murphy gets shot up in another thread.

Maes said:

Those can crash even more easily than the ED-209 can trip ;-)

i would argue with that. a flying drone would require a more complex operating model, but that general model would be more robust than a model for a "walker". you'd spend all your time building safeguards for balancing and doublechecking where the bot is stepping.

i actually expected you to bring up how problematic shooting would be from a lightweight copter drone. (i don't know.)

dew said:

yea, the bot would fall and cripple itself on a flight of stairs, heh. why not a bunch of surveillance cameras and a minicopter drone or two?

Surveillance cameras with gun turrets on them would work too. They could probably start producing them with our current state of technology.

dew said:

i actually expected you to bring up how problematic shooting would be from a lightweight copter drone. (i don't know.)

What if it had something like a crossbow on it instead? Or perhaps tear gas/ mace/ or a tazer to incapacitate the shooter. Or even a huge blade, so it could slam into the shooter kamikaze style.

Kontra Kommando said:

Surveillance cameras with gun turrets on them would work too. They could probably start producing them with our current state of technology.

i know, but that's considerably less cool and more bigbrotherish. :) but throw in laser guns and you have me sold. you could even avoid unintentional civilian casualties with split second low intensity test shots!

Kontra Kommando said:

What if it had something like a crossbow on it instead? Or perhaps tear gas/ mace/ or a tazer to incapacitate the shooter. Or even a huge blade, so it could slam into the shooter kamikaze style.

Crossbows also have recoil, gas requires the drone to get close to the target, tazering probably means getting close AND hovering, which leaves the drone vulnerable if the shooter has friends. For a kamikaze weapon, I'd replace the huge blade with a harpoon spike. Death ray lasers would be nice, but with the current state of technology the drone might be too heavy to land on rooftop helipads.

GreyGhost said:

Crossbows also have recoil, gas requires the drone to get close to the target, tazering probably means getting close AND hovering, which leaves the drone vulnerable if the shooter has friends. For a kamikaze weapon, I'd replace the huge blade with a harpoon spike. Death ray lasers would be nice, but with the current state of technology the drone might be too heavy to land on rooftop helipads.

Or perhaps it can drop canisters of gas around the target that cause temporary blindness. If in a hallway the target could find himself flanked by advancing walls of gas. Then, if necessary, lets say three of these mini drones swoop in to stab the target repeatedly on multiple sides.

dew said:

i actually expected you to bring up how problematic shooting would be from a lightweight copter drone. (i don't know.)

That has already been done, actually:

However "lightweight" is a relative term: the RC/drone heli in the video is gas/petrol powered (not electric or nitro), and weighs over 50 kg. This is necessary for stability, robustness and stamina.

At this size, a RC heli can be pretty deadly on its own, if it crashes onto a person. Hell, even a 5 kg RC heli with a nitro engine can be a deadly hazard, and just by watching some videos of RC fliers on YT you can understand what sorts of failures they are susceptible to. The smaller and lighter they are, the more they are susceptible to wind, ground/wall effects or even a bird farting overhead.

Maes said:

That has already been done, actually:



However "lightweight" is a relative term: the RC/drone heli in the video is gas/petrol powered (not electric or nitro), and weighs over 50 kg. This is necessary for stability, robustness and stamina.

At this size, a RC heli can be pretty deadly on its own, if it crashes onto a person. Hell, even a 5 kg RC heli with a nitro engine can be a deadly hazard, and just by watching some videos of RC fliers on YT you can understand what sorts of failures they are susceptible to. The smaller and lighter they are, the more they are susceptible to wind, ground/wall effects or even a bird farting overhead.

That's bad ass, I want one. And yea, that propeller looks like it can fuck somebody up.

But perhaps homeland security should be expanded to protect schools. These shooters are in fact terrorists as well, at least I would say they are. They could benefit from military grade drones. The military already produces in surplus, they could put idle hardware to use.

Kontra Kommando said:

But perhaps homeland security should be expanded to protect schools. These shooters are in fact terrorists as well, at least I would say they are. They could benefit from military grade drones. The military already produces in surplus, they could put idle hardware to use.

Do you mean that the shooters would benefit from using the surplus military drones themselves? In that case, they would also need the logistic support to refuel, launch and control the drones. Maybe the military also produces surplus airports, UAV support hardware and trained UAV operator/support crews, who are just eager to sell out to the highest bidder?

Or did you means that the drones should be put to "good use" by individually targetting terrorists (BTW when using explosive ammunition or full-auto weaponry from an aircraft, it's hard to keep the collateral damage down...unless you don't give a fuck about it, like e.g. in Pakistan or Afghanistan). Surely, I'm sure everybody would like to see their immediate surroundings and property being suddenly blasted by a hail of explosive 20mm rounds, and later -if they survive- learn that their bystander was a government-approved target for elimination by drone, and they they were simply standing too close ;-)

BTW, any non full-size helicopter-based drone would be easily defeated even by throwing a stone at it, and the "military grade drones" are actually larger than a single-engined Cessna ;-)

Kontra Kommando said:

But perhaps homeland security should be expanded to protect schools. These shooters are in fact terrorists as well, at least I would say they are. They could benefit from military grade drones. The military already produces in surplus, they could put idle hardware to use.

Yeah, and? What are those drones going to do that a camera on a pole can't? Do you suggest that they actually fire on a school if they see someone who is suspect? Ask Pakistan about the collateral damage they suffer from every terrorist suspect successfully blown up eliminated.

Christ, people actually want eyes in the sky these days.

lol no, I meant if they engineered something like we were talking about. The tear-gas, stabbing drones.

Kontra Kommando said:

lol no, I meant if they engineered something like we were talking about. The tear-gas, stabbing drones.

If for some reason the police decide to use tear gas, they can simply throw it or launch it in throw the windows by canister. Why do you need a small plane to administer it?

And how is a drone with a sharp knife going to work in this situation, exactly? Is it going to crash into the school kamikaze style in hopes of impaling the "terrorist?"

What if they followed up the mini-drone attack with a remote control car that shot out a stream of naplam on the target? It'almost like a miniture blitzkreig.

Kontra Kommando said:

lol no, I meant if they engineered something like we were talking about. The tear-gas, stabbing drones.

I too support filling US schools with stabbing, gassing drones, because I hate children in general and American children in particular.

:p

What if we just attach various firearms (Shotguns, uzis, 9 mms, etc)to remote control cars? The goverment could grant money to towns to create make-shift versions of them to defend their school. There could be regulators that inspect if they meet the national standard. Kind of like battle bots with guns.

Kontra Kommando said:

What if we just attach various firearms (Shotguns, uzis, 9 mms, etc)to remote control cars?

Because it's too easy to just destroy them by stomping them or sidestepping and toppling them. Even the heaviest "large scale" (anything above 1:7) remote control cars look like a kids' toy :-)



Not very cost effective, either, if you look at the prices. Most cost more than a used full-size car.

I also wonder how exactly the "stabbing drones" would work. First of all, any RC aircraft powerful enough to carry a knife the size and weight of a full-size bayonet while maintaining control, would need to be quite big, size .30 and above in RC terms. A plane-based model would fly too fast to be accurate or maneuverable in closed spaces, while a helicopter based one would have serious problems protecting its rotors from colliding with walls or the intended victim before the knife.

Let alone that after "stabbing" they would be destroyed or remain "stuck" to their victims ;-)

Unless the "drones" are intended to be used pretty much like disposable, slow-flying homing missiles. In that case, you need to make sure that they can both fly slow enough to negotiate an urban environment AND be able to pick up enough speed quick enough to do some real damage by crashing against a target...or fit them all with explosive/frag warheads, in which case why not simply shooting at people with explosive rounds?