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dsm

id doing the maps in backward order

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As most of you (if not all) already know, id are making the last maps in Doom 3 first and the first ones last - no doubt because they're trying to do a good ending map to prevent the game from having a downright sucky ending.

I think this bodes pretty damn well, because it means that the ending map wouldn't be rushed :-D

If anyone of you disagrees with me that this is a good thing, go ahead and explain why you think so.

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They did the same thing with DOOM. Most of episodes 2 and 3 was made first and then Romero put together episode 1 in the end.

I think the main advantage is that you get the technically best levels first, which will make players more impressed when they play the demo :P

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Fredrik said:

I think the main advantage is that you get the technically best levels first, which will make players more impressed when they play the demo :P

I disagree, a demo with the best designed maps would ruin the joy of having the full version as you'vetried the best features of the game already.

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dsm said:

I disagree, a demo with the best designed maps would ruin the joy of having the full version as you'vetried the best features of the game already.

First of all, I said *technically* best maps, not best designed. This means, most optimal use of the technology (therefore probably best looking). The later levels may have better gameplay.

Second, look at DOOM :)

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I think it´s a good idea to do so. I´m not sure in which order they made the episodes in Quake (1), but the last episode with the levels by Sandy Petersen were designed extremely poor compared to the levels in the 3 previous episodes.

I´m just thinking which game ending I liked most in comparison to the whole game? The ending in Doom2 was quite cool, because it was a new kind of scenario, not the usual big boss fight.
The ending in Halflife was cheap and didn´t really match into the whole game´s athmosphere... although the very last scene with that agent in the cabine was quite cool again.
The Makron scenario in the end of Quake2 was good, not a very challenging fight, but a classy arena style ending with cool athmosphere.
The ending in RTCWolfenstein was shit - the episode end where you had to defeat the Übersoldat was a much cooler scenario (one of the best boss scenarios ever).
SiN - don´t remember that one, something with the red dressed Sin chick escaping right before your eyes?

What are your favourite end game scenarios?

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I don't really have an opinion on how or from which order the levels of D3 are made, But I do have some important factors I want(HOPE) I see when I see the game finished. I've mentioned these in posts and replies already,And according to some of the people on this forum that saw the video, a couple of those factors has came true. Like for instance.......

1)Marine has a reload anime.
2)Screen thrashes wildly and flashes red when marine is attacked or damaged.
3)Characters(human) show facial emotion.
4)Amibiant sound FX.
5)"Assault rifle" is part of marines weapons arsenal.
6)Imps can now leap(Pounce)
7)Small rooms(possibly UAC sleep cubicals)
8)Actual UAC characters!(Security,Janitors,scientist,colonist)
9)You can now lose a pusuing enemy by getting beyond it's line of site or darting in a dark area.
10)Real elevators(Not stupid 1 floor lifts!)
11)Great looking Blood, the most realistic ever!
12)Blood splashes well when you shoot enemies and probably splashes on the wall and leak/run down it. Like in "DUKE NUKEM"
13)Bathroom areas. (Even though I liked N64's Goldeneye restroom areas more.
14)I think someone mention a HIGHPOWERED shotgun, Can it be an AUTO-SHOTGUN?! Hope so.

Things I still want to see(*HOPE TO SEE)

1)Bullet holes/varies on different surfaces, on wood,metal,marbel,glass. (Like in N64's GoldenEye)
2)Large cratorlike damages, from rockets, exploded toxic barrels, or BFG damage, complete with gigantic deep-black powder smears seinged around the crators.(Kinda like RED FACTION)
3)Corner peeking(Lean-n-Peek) ie("Rouge Spear")
3)Lingering Smoke(colors varies)after large explosions,abscuring your vision and make you cough. 8-15 sec (like Goldeneye)
4)Hanger looks like a real hanger. From the hanger control area look out the window and see a wide indoor area full with parked moon vehicles or ships.
4)Enemies no longer stand around waiting to spot you, they have short and long patrol paths or just wander around aimlessly.
5)Ingame Recorder-Record sigle/mulitplayer games, see your efforts from a number of different preset and manual angles; see the action from every angle as if watching a motion picture.
6)When weapon runs out of ammo, you could use the "BUT-END" as an in-close attack. ie(HALO)
7)They should be more than 1 route through any given level, also levels are multi-layerd. ie(Rainbow Six series)
9)Unsupported 3rd person prospective. (Hey,I want to see the Marine in action too!!)
10)When I look out a window(skylamp) on Phobos base, I want it to look just like the phobos level on Unreal Tournement. A rotating night sky(Outer space) with a Gigantic MARS looming overhead.
10)Level corridors varies- Some corridors are tight,narrow like in "ALIEN" while others are wide enough to drive a subway train through.
11)Large Cafeteria(Mess Hall)-area full with rows and rows of tables and a food serving section.
12)Spacestation level designes sould vary- Some areas look bright tidy or administrative and under levels look more dull technical while the lowest area look like dark brooding underground sewers.
for a better idea on what I'm talking about. see DOOM BIBLE/Section7/
7.3.1 Doom Buildings and areas:
13)I would like to be able to go EVA(Put on a SPACESUIT and go in zero gravity of space. Kinda like what you go through in HeavyGear 2
14)The hell regions-id should look at one of the levels on PS2s "DEVIL MAY CRY" I saw a section where an large area with pillars had thick ropes wrapped around them,and the ropes were alive! They throbbed and pulsated! id can create some hell levels where the very envirinment attacks you. The walls,floors or whatever morf into something hidious and reach out an try to kill you or something...
15)COMBAT POSTURING for the doom marine, on how he runs, move, hold and fire his weapons. I think id needs to look to the makers of the "Rainbowsix" series for this, they are the best out there at this because they used real SPECIAL OPs,SWAT,COUNTER TERRORIST people in "Motion Capturing Technlology" to caputure move-n-shoot senarios called CQC(CLOSE QUATER COMBAT) And since DOOM3 take place in spacestations among other areas, this is the most likely and realistic way he'll be fighting the mutants/demons. (IMO)

There are more things I know I forgot to mention, but I'm tired of all this typing......WHEWW!!!

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chrisrobinson said:

do you know where i can download doom?

Buy it from idsoftware.com or get that Collectors Doom package that should be in any store.

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tsareppsun said:

14)I think someone mention a HIGHPOWERED shotgun, Can it be an AUTO-SHOTGUN?! Hope so.

Uh no, it's a pump-action shotgun (and thank God for that! Auto shotgun, bleh!) - it's mentioned in one of the latest "impressions".

Things I still want to see(*HOPE TO SEE)
[...]
6)When weapon runs out of ammo, you could use the "BUT-END" as an in-close attack. ie(HALO)

Nah, that would make the fist attack (or whatever close combat weapon they have in the game) useless, besides, using the butt end in an fps is overrated imo.

10)When I look out a window(skylamp) on Phobos base, I want it to look just like the phobos level on Unreal Tournement. A rotating night sky(Outer space) with a Gigantic MARS looming overhead.

Uh, read the impressions. The new game takes place ON Mars.

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dsm said:

Uh no, it's a pump-action shotgun (and thank God for that! Auto shotgun, bleh!) - it's mentioned in one of the latest "impressions".

Nah, that would make the fist attack (or whatever close combat weapon they have in the game) useless, besides, using the butt end in an fps is overrated imo.

Uh, read the impressions. The new game takes place ON Mars.



Q1)I will always welcome back(*O'L BETSY)the pump-shotgun in D3, I was just hoping that a auto-SG would serve as a alternative grade SG.

Q2)Hmmmm......Still feel you should be able to beat down and kill mutants and some of the demons with "Bare Fists" attacks eh?...Well,to each his own...........

Q3) My BUST!(*My mistake), I knew this, I just unconsiously typed that in because that very level in UT has such a profound impact on me. I hope id are examining pics of the MARS landscape on the web. Like how it looks during the day (Sky is pinkish,not red like in most SCIFI films) And the fact that Phobos is so close to surface of MARS that it can't be seen anywhere above the horizon and etc,etc....

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1) need to explain the new plot connects to Doom 2 as the continous story which follows

2) have decency in everything

3) make the last map first? hmm, consider it's the boss map, better come up with a boss for us, id

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NarcoTerror said:

I alweys wondered why e3m8 came out like that. :)

Yeah the level looks like a random newbie's first creation :)

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dsm said:

I disagree, a demo with the best designed maps would ruin the joy of having the full version as you'vetried the best features of the game already.

On the other hand, a demo with the best maps in it would make you want to buy the full version, right?

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Fredrik said:

They did the same thing with DOOM. Most of episodes 2 and 3 was made first and then Romero put together episode 1 in the end.

How do you know?

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