Community project idea: Under an Open Sky

Ok, so here's an idea I've been thinking about, inspired by the 5 rooms of doom project. I was thinking about how I like the idea of that project a lot, but how I found the concept kind of hard to define. What is a room and what is two rooms and so on? And I'm not saying that it's a poor project, on the contrary I'm very much looking forward to how it turns out and I'm expecting a lot of great maps.

But, I was thinking of a way to make a project with a bit of the same spirit, but with really clear rules on what you can do and what you can't. One idea would be to make a 1 room maps, but even then it would be debatable if you could use high walls that don't reach the ceiling but divide different areas and so on.

So I came up with this idea: It's only allowed to use sky as a ceiling, and NEVER anything else. And yeah, that's pretty much the only rule you need and there should be no need to debate what is allowed. Other than that, you can do anything you want to. And personally, I would go for Boom compatibility. At least I think it would make a really interesting concept for a community project. Think about it: majority of Doom maps tend to mainly take place indoors and it could produce some really unique maps. And it would also be an interesting challenge for mappers to come up with nice looking maps with good gameplay using this rule. Obviously some new tree sprites and such would be a required, and a grass texture like the one I remember seeing in Vanguard at least would be nice too. And new sky textures of course.

I'm starting this thread to find out if there are people interested in this. BUT, I'm NOT going to lead such a project myself. Unfortunately I don't have time nor the skills for it. But if there's a person who's interested in starting and such a project, please do so and start a new thread about it! And perhaps I could have a small mention in the final text file of the finalized project as the father of the idea, if this thing ever happens.

inb4 fake ceilings made of middle textures everywhere

Haha, shows how much I remember/know about advanced map editing. But I'd say allowing any trickery to produce fake ceilings would be against the concept. 3D bridges and such could perhaps be allowed but only so that you can actually get on them and not only used as ceilings.

It's really not easy to think of a simple concept that wouldn't need any exceptions hehe. But "don't make something that looks like a ceiling" sounds clear enough I guess? I like your idea, not sure if want to try it myself but I would definitely like to see the results. :)

Memfis said:

But "don't make something that looks like a ceiling" sounds clear enough I guess?

Yeah, sounds great and clear enough to me at least, thanks! :)

I can't even do doors?
Well I can put it as a floor door , but what about the key powered doors? They can't be pushed down in boom.

joe-ilya said:

I can't even do doors?
Well I can put it as a floor door , but what about the key powered doors? They can't be pushed down in boom.

this is the part that excites me the most. One would have to get creative, even to make a simply functional map.

May whip up a concept later. This sounds like a lot of fun!

joe-ilya said:

I can't even do doors?
Well I can put it as a floor door , but what about the key powered doors? They can't be pushed down in boom.

Yeah, no doors with keys possible I guess. Unless perhaps an invicible force field that disappears into the sky or something like that might be possible? I haven't made map editing in years so I'm not trying to figure out if it's doable :P But even if not, there are plenty of ways to make a good unlinear gameplay without keys. It's just another challenge for the mapper really, and part of the fun!

A door is just an obstacle, and a key is just a way to remove an obstacle.

Could have been a platform and a switch, for example.

what compatibility is this going for?

I had a map in sf12 that was pretty much entirely open, I had fake key doors just using voodoo closets and W1 lower actions. No sure about vanilla alternatives

Ribbiks said:

what compatibility is this going for?

I had a map in sf12 that was pretty much entirely open, I had fake key doors just using voodoo closets and W1 lower actions. No sure about vanilla alternatives

Boom compatibility is what I suggested in my opening post. So yeah, it turns out keys can be used after all, thanks!

Why not just make normal levels with more open bits? This is really a tame gimmick.

Marcaek said:

Why not just make normal levels with more open bits? This is really a tame gimmick.

Yeah it's a gimmick, but at least I for one am fascinated by gimmicky map concepts. And the popularity of similar ideas, such as the congestion 1024 maps, 10 sector maps, 100 lines maps, 5 rooms maps, 1 monster maps and so on does prove that there seems to be an interest in this type of concepts :)

DooMer 4ever said:

Yeah, no doors with keys possible I guess. Unless perhaps an invicible force field that disappears into the sky or something like that might be possible? I haven't made map editing in years so I'm not trying to figure out if it's doable :P But even if not, there are plenty of ways to make a good unlinear gameplay without keys. It's just another challenge for the mapper really, and part of the fun!

Good. Fucking .Idea.
I already start a map made from rocks.

I think my concept will be vanilla anyway, if that's okay. I welcome the extra challenge. >:3

schwerpunk said:

I think my concept will be vanilla anyway, if that's okay. I welcome the extra challenge. >:3

Of course! It would be even possible to divide the wad with vanilla compatible and Boom compatible levels, the vanilla maps probably appearing as the first levels of the wad and the Boom compatible as the rest.

Also, as a general tip to everyone: Keep in mind that you can still do all sorts of constructions to the maps with this concept, so it doesn't have to be just canyons, plains, lakes and whatever. You could even make a city map with some of the buildings half destructed with no roof you could enter, and so on.

I won't be joining in. I love the idea of mapping with limitations, but this is like asking me to make only half a map - the bottom half.

Plus, I love overhangs and beams and things.

I'd join without hesitation. "Under an Open Sky" style maps can be kinda epic and incredilby fantastic if this feature is used well, e.g. among several height variations.

doors: they open into the sky, like in some kind of bizarro world
trees: g-b-arch.wad has interesting design without new sprites (and also crops, and other funky stuff)
grass: well doom2.wad has GRASS1, GRASS2, RROCK19, RROCK20, and there's also various marble flats. ;-)

Come to think of it, my Fortress of Mystery remake was all open sky except for above the central elevator. It's effectively just one big room...

It might be possible to never show the sky, and just pretend you're in a very dark dungeon, with only some tech lamps and various other floor-level lights to guide you. But the walls are very tall, and the ceiling is perpertually shrouded in darkness...

I might try something for this. That idea of Hex's might work well.

This might be a neat idea if the project rules are instead phrased as "Every area must be outdoors," rather than "Only F_SKY1 as a ceiling texture, as the latter poses some really severe architectural limits that limit creativity with the premise.

Xaser said:

This might be a neat idea if the project rules are instead phrased as "Every area must be outdoors," rather than "Only F_SKY1 as a ceiling texture, as the latter poses some really severe architectural limits that limit creativity with the premise.

Yeah, this is true of course as it limits all kind of overhanging ledges of building and cliffs and so on. But I'm kind of partial to wether it should be phrased "every areas must be outdoors" because then a part of the interesting challenge of mapping with limitations would be lost and it would also be again less clear what is allowed and what is not.

But I guess one possibility would again be to allow both kind of maps and then divide the wad with the different types.

For vanilla key doors you could make the door a lift, press it when you have the key and it unlocks a door in a dummy sector that releases a lost soul that continuously walks over lines with action 88 Lift Lower Wait Raise.

This sounds kind of interesting, though I'm with Xaser, it would work better if the rules allowed ceilings beyond F_SKY1 as long as the level was completely outdoors.

What's the verdict on overhangs like this? (Please ignore shite texture job.)



For technical reasons, it's using a ceiling other than F_SKY1, but the player wouldn't ever see it without cheating. Would this kind of thing be kosher with or without F_SKY1?

schwerpunk said:

For technical reasons, it's using a ceiling other than F_SKY1, but the player wouldn't ever see it without cheating. Would this kind of thing be kosher with or without F_SKY1?

Well, one has to remember that probably the majority of Doom players play using Zdoom or another source port that supports mouselook and have it turned on and don't consider it cheating so that could be a problem. Then on the other hand, this is meant to be Boom compatible project so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I would really like to try myself making a short map with this idea. I probably won't have time before september as I'm shortly leaving for a longish trip but maybe after that.

There does seem to be at least some interest in the project though as expected the idea is a bit polarizing. But yeah, if someone wants to be the project leader, then please, do start a new thread about this. Or I guess I could try being the leader myself too after all if no one wants to do it. I just don't have much time like I told and I don't have the skills to do stuff like compiling the final wad with different resources and so on. But I'm sure someone would be nice enough to help with all that. But if there are people who have already started making a map for this, be sure that it will be arranged that those maps can be put together for a wad :)

I made a map.
http://www.mediafire.com/?p2g9ietvt3cmagm

joe-ilya said:

I made a map.
http://www.mediafire.com/?p2g9ietvt3cmagm

Well, it's not exactly how I would approach the concept myself. To me this felt almost like a typical Doom map that takes place indoors but with sky always as ceiling. And because of this, there are plenty of awkward visuals with disappearing walls when the ceiling always when the ceiling height changes. I'd try myself to keep the ceiling height always the same if possible, and think of other ways to make height differences by having different floor heights. Also, you don't always have to have the walls at the sides reach the ceiling. On the plus side, the gameplay of the map was ok.

But thanks for the map! It was interesting to see one map with my idea, even though I didn't like it all that much.