Reacting to getting shot.

If there's one thing I hope, it's that weaker enemies will jerk in pain each time they're hit with a shot (even if it's just a pistol bullet) - it just removes the slight sense of realism if the enemies are indifferent to taking hits (and damn dissatisfying too).

Jerking in pain shouldn't necessarily mean that they can't shoot back when hit like in the old Doom. What I was thinking is that if e.g. they're winged in their side by a pistol bullet they'll make a grunting sound or the like, jerk a little, but not enough to make them stop running/walking (merely stumble a little bit) and they'll still be able to fire at you (although their aim would be disrupted a bit), but if they're hit somewhere more critical, e.g. in the chest while not wearing armour, they'll stop, jerk backward in agony, howl in pain and they wont be able to shoot back until they have recovered.

Now, even if ling (or someone else who saw the demo) comes by and says that they barely react to getting shot, it doesn't mean that they wont do it in the final version - that element might still get tweaked a bit.

I agree.

And if they do something like that, I hope it doesn't become too much of a factor in the gameplay, but just a part of the eye candy.

Fredrik said:

I agree.

And if they do something like that, I hope it doesn't become too much of a factor in the gameplay, but just a part of the eye candy.

Exactly my thoughts - it shouldn't make the monsters easier in any way, merely give it a feel like your weapons actually hurt them.

i tried to pay attention to the enemy 'reactions', and i have to say it's pretty subtle. still, it's really satisfying when you shoot the monsters, i think it has to do with the beefy sounds :) (none of that wimp q1 wet-fart shotgun sound stuff)

when u shoot zombies they recoil a bit, but they are zombies so i guess they shouldn't really feel pain. the thing about damage response is if they convincingly 'feel' the gunshot and get knocked back, there wouldn't be any suspense coz u could just keep firing shots at them w/out worrying. id wants to scare you and getting pushed back by a seemingly-impervious demon is scarier then pimpslapping everyone in sight. i guess. :)

Fredrik said:

I agree.

And if they do something like that, I hope it doesn't become too much of a factor in the gameplay, but just a part of the eye candy.

Just exactly HOW many people am I a clone of in these forums?

chumps said:

i tried to pay attention to the enemy 'reactions', and i have to say it's pretty subtle. still, it's really satisfying when you shoot the monsters, i think it has to do with the beefy sounds :) (none of that wimp q1 wet-fart shotgun sound stuff)

when u shoot zombies they recoil a bit, but they are zombies so i guess they shouldn't really feel pain. the thing about damage response is if they convincingly 'feel' the gunshot and get knocked back, there wouldn't be any suspense coz u could just keep firing shots at them w/out worrying. id wants to scare you and getting pushed back by a seemingly-impervious demon is scarier then pimpslapping everyone in sight. i guess. :)

What? The Doom1 shotgun wasn't flatulent enough for you? And to think I went through life actually thinking that shotguns sounded like that...

So, yeah. I imagine the enemy reactions will be rather classic. Of course, in the beginning of the game, you'll be light on firepower, so you'll pick away at the zombies while the imps are somewhat unaffected. Of course, once the larger beasts come plodding through, even your best weapons will only do so much as tickle them. I thought it was interesting how in the first Quake you needed to rely on world objects to help defeat the bosses-- I hope there's some of that in the game(but balanced). I'm not talking flipping a switch 500 times while dodging super rockets, but like that map in Half-Life where one huge tentacle thing inhabits the rocket test lab, and you have to reactivate the lab in order to fry it.

Ah, who am I kidding? I really don't care if the game is nothing new-- just as long as the cyberdemon gets his grand entrance!

chumps said:

i tried to pay attention to the enemy 'reactions', and i have to say it's pretty subtle. still, it's really satisfying when you shoot the monsters, i think it has to do with the beefy sounds :) (none of that wimp q1 wet-fart shotgun sound stuff)

when u shoot zombies they recoil a bit, but they are zombies so i guess they shouldn't really feel pain. the thing about damage response is if they convincingly 'feel' the gunshot and get knocked back, there wouldn't be any suspense coz u could just keep firing shots at them w/out worrying. id wants to scare you and getting pushed back by a seemingly-impervious demon is scarier then pimpslapping everyone in sight. i guess. :)

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? The Doom1 shotgun wasn't flatulent enough for you? And to think I went through life actually thinking that shotguns sounded like that...

Dude, he was talking about the QUAKE 1 shotgun, not the DOOM shotgun - and I agree with him: The Quake 1 shotgun sounded like crap.
Man am I pleased that the Doom 3 shotgun sounds like it has some power and that the other weapons seem to too.

The 11 minutes video shows oh so much stuff. It's so fucking great.

Jerking in pain would be good - but getting knocked over by some demon regularly would not.

GS-1719 said:

Jerking in pain would be good - but getting knocked over by some demon regularly would not.

I agree, that would be realistic, but not fun. No thanks.

So far, I like the way things are shaping up in regards to how enemies/the player react to taking damage and that the weapons sound like they're powerful. Great.

Weedster said:

Just exactly HOW many people am I a clone of in these forums?

I feel insulted now :P

More about DooM III physics engine:

http://www.gamespy.com/e32002/pc/id/index2.shtml

especially this is very interessting:
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GameSpy: So if you shoot the box in a couple of different places, the box would react differently each time, spin off to the side… ?

Jan Paul: Yep. It's the same thing with an enemy - if you shoot him in the shoulder, he starts spinning or turning backwards, or you shoot him in the legs, he flips over. Based on where you hit him, it will be a different simulation each time.
---------------------------------------

Also, seen the pinky bending that rail? Nicey.

another nice point from the interview:
---------------
We've got everything in there - if you shoot a rocket through smoke, it'll swirl; if you have a force field there are all kinds of emitters of particles … it's a real complex system, but it has a neat interface. Robert has been working on it to make it even easier to use and you can set up all sorts of effects with models in there, with particles in there, with sounds in there, and you can set up real great scenes in there.
------------------

=> ROCKETS yeah. verified! another D3 weapon is back! :D

Let's hope the rockets don't fly at 10 m/s as in DOOM :)

yep...and the RL-sound should not be so "plop"-ish this time...back in the days I really hate that sound.

Heh, the Rocket Launcher will be showing in D3; let's hope there's going to be a Plasma Rifle in there as well!
God, I love Plasma Rifles.

And the BFG 9000000! :]