The convenience of playing games...

I thought about playing a bit Diablo3 today, just a quick run before going to town. Turns out it needs some updating after not playing it for months. That's totally fine, every game needs patching now and then, but all this DRM and logging into account thing has gone too far IMO.

If I want to log in to my account and play Blizzard games I need an authentication code, which I tried through android phone app. If I figured it out right, I have a "physical" authenticator attached to my account, so I would have to buy some kind of key ring item to get valid codes. If I want to have the authenticator removed from my account, I have to scan and send my IDs to Blizzard. I am confused, I just wanted to play a game.

I was kind of looking forward to the upcoming D3 expansion but I doubt I'll be buying anything from them anymore... anyone else bugged by similar inconvient experiences with video games?

Ever since steam took over yes, I originally had to rely on boxed copies until it became a requirement on them, activation is the only thing my mobile broadband connection can handle without running out of credit straight away, so the games with the simple "paul" activation or whatever it was called only work for me.

LANEGRACABRA said:

If I want to log in to my account and play Blizzard games I need an authentication code, which I tried through android phone app. If I figured it out right, I have a "physical" authenticator attached to my account, so I would have to buy some kind of key ring item to get valid codes. If I want to have the authenticator removed from my account, I have to scan and send my IDs to Blizzard. I am confused, I just wanted to play a game.

I was kind of looking forward to the upcoming D3 expansion but I doubt I'll be buying anything from them anymore... anyone else bugged by similar inconvient experiences with video games?

I don't understand, you attached an authenticator to your bnet account and now you regret doing so because it takes an extra 3 seconds to log in once a week? ok.

LANEGRACABRA said:

Diablo3

Stop playing shitty games.

I don't have that problem, but I don't use steam and last Blizzard game I played was Blackthorne (not into the RTS stuff...)

But I did notice that it's quite common for NDS games to make you wait a long time and display a whole bunch of "credits" screens/logos before you can start playing. It's pretty dumb when you think about it - you might only have a few minutes to play and just want to relax with a quick game, but you have to sit through all this useless stuff every time.

Speed from clicking the executable to doing something fun is my prime factor for choosing which game to play. It's unfortunate most people don't seem to value their time all that much. In other words, I hear you.

Granted, boxed copies are becoming a thing of the past, but modern box art work really ain't that cool to put on the shelf anymore.

Jodwin said:

Stop playing shitty games.

Oh look, another hater.

Quast said:

I don't understand, you attached an authenticator to your bnet account and now you regret doing so because it takes an extra 3 seconds to log in once a week? ok.

No, the authenticator is something that the Battle.net account forces you to set up, I don't even remember doing so, only being confused about converting my original Blizzard account into a Battle.net account. I had no idea I need a physical authentication generator whatsoever when I created the account. When I actively played Diablo3 I was never prompted to put any authentication codes anywhere.

Heh, Warhammer Online is another nightmare of mine, the game originally had you make log in with different username and password to the site and to the launcher. When the Bioware took over, you had to make merge them with an Origin account under a new username. In the end I had no idea what the hell I had to type in the launcher to actually play the game.

DooM_RO said:

Oh look, another hater.

Diablo 3 is a bullshit excuse to monetize on the auction house while at the same time removing any freedom of character building, and anyone who likes that game is comparable to a CoD fanboy. Torchlight 2 is the much superior title. It doesn't even force you to play through the game thrice to get to the interesting difficulty, since there's difficulty options - something that Blizzard seems to have forgotten to be a thing.

Fuck Blizzard.

No hate, but Path of Exile is a lot more enjoyable, IMHO. I believe it's F2P now as well.

I highly recommended it for fans of D1 and 2.

Phml said:

Speed from clicking the executable to doing something fun is my prime factor for choosing which game to play.

Not things like, you know, gameplay? Not saying login crap isn't a factor, but I'd think gameplay could possibly trump that.

schwerpunk said:

No hate, but Path of Exile is a lot more enjoyable, IMHO. I believe it's F2P now as well.

I highly recommended it for fans of D1 and 2.

Unlike Diablo 3, it's ugly as sin. You might find this strange but the way a game loos is extremely important to me. Yeah sure, Doom is old bla bla but it's actually pleasant to look at while POE looks like a CHEAP Diablo 2 knockoff. Sure, the art style in Diablo 3 was not always fitting in the universe (although a lot of stuff did) it was very beautiful and a joy to look at.

Jodwin said:

Diablo 3 is a bullshit excuse to monetize on the auction house while at the same time removing any freedom of character building, and anyone who likes that game is comparable to a CoD fanboy. Torchlight 2 is the much superior title. It doesn't even force you to play through the game thrice to get to the interesting difficulty, since there's difficulty options - something that Blizzard seems to have forgotten to be a thing.

Fuck Blizzard.

Yeah sure, whatever. Have modern gamers really forgotten that games are made to be ENJOYED? So what if it's flawed? That doesn't mean that people can't enjoy it. Yeah sure, I agree about CoD but just because I ENJOY Diablo 3 (I don't LOVE it btw) doesn't make a bad person with bad taste. I don't care that TL2 has better gameplay, the game looks like shit (in the art department) and that's a big turn-off for me. Ironically the "true" Diablo sequel is far more cartoony than Diablo 3 itself. And of course it has better gameplay, the people who made Diablo 2 made the game, D3 was made by rookies but I don't think the game they made is as bad as you say. At its worst it's mediocre at its best is good-great but not "bad"

Go play Median XL.

LANEGRACABRA said:

No, the authenticator is something that the Battle.net account forces you to set up, I don't even remember doing so, only being confused about converting my original Blizzard account into a Battle.net account.

I know what an authenticator is, I have had one tied to my bnet account for years. But they are not required or mandatory to place onto an account. (though they are required to use diablo 3 RMAH) In fact you need to have one first and foremost to even tie it to an account.

LET ME GUESS: You purchased an account from someone and said account has an authenticator tied to it and now you're trying to feign ignorance? Is that pretty close to what is going on?

yukib1t said:

Not things like, you know, gameplay? Not saying login crap isn't a factor, but I'd think gameplay could possibly trump that.

That's more or less what I wanted to imply with "fun" (granted, a fun game isn't necessarily a game with good gameplay). There's enough games around to be able to be picky, and to make having a good time the baseline. It becomes a choice between a number of games of similar entertainment value, so the fastest one to get me playing wins.

Perhaps you're getting at genres as well, and I have to admit it can be more important. For example I still play Starcraft 2 despite ridiculously long loading times, account authentification and all that jazz because there's not really another option for (what I personally like in) that kind of game. Likewise with MMOs and MOBAs.

Still, sometimes I'll play Doom even though I might like SC2 a little bit better at that particular point in time simply because I'd rather get going right now than watch loading screens for minutes.

Yeah sure, I agree about CoD but just because I ENJOY Diablo 3 (I don't LOVE it btw) doesn't make a bad person with bad taste. I don't care that TL2 has better gameplay, the game looks like shit (in the art department) and that's a big turn-off for me.

Thinking TL2 looks like shit makes you a person with terrible taste, voicing that opinion as is makes you a terrible person.

That I feel the need to also tell you I have no issue with Diablo 3 personally and will likely give the game a go if it ever ends up in the <20€ price range shows previous accusations of fanboyism might not be uncalled for.

Ok, whatever. Arguing about this is pointless.

DooM_RO said:

I don't care that TL2 has better gameplay, the game looks like shit (in the art department) and that's a big turn-off for me.

We can't be friends anymore.

Quast said:

I know what an authenticator is, I have had one tied to my bnet account for years. But they are not required or mandatory to place onto an account. (though they are required to use diablo 3 RMAH) In fact you need to have one first and foremost to even tie it to an account.

LET ME GUESS: You purchased an account from someone and said account has an authenticator tied to it and now you're trying to feign ignorance? Is that pretty close to what is going on?

Guess again, the account is 100% mine. I actually have no idea or recollection why I have an authenticator attached, I played WoW for some time time years and years ago, and there was a long time gap until I logged in when I got D3, that's when I was forced to convert the account into a Battle.net one.

LANEGRACABRA said:

Guess again, the account is 100% mine. I actually have no idea or recollection why I have an authenticator attached, I played WoW for some time time years and years ago, and there was a long time gap until I logged in when I got D3, that's when I was forced to convert the account into a Battle.net one.

Your account has likely been hijacked and an authenticator placed on the account by the perpetrators then.

That could be a very sticky situation. Seriously, everyone with a Bnet account should at least get the phone authenticator app.

And singleplayer games shouldn't need internet connection and an account to play.

100% Agree. Error 37 FTW...and then came Sim City 5. Oh god!

yukib1t said:

Not things like, you know, gameplay? Not saying login crap isn't a factor, but I'd think gameplay could possibly trump that.

I'd be perfectly content with throwing away and never looking back a good game with outrageous load times and resource intensive system requirements and login IDs in favor of a game thats also fun but is able to be picked up and played at any given time, has minimal loading times and works on pretty much anything I put it on.

I'm pretty sure I'm a minority in this, but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of creating a username and password or using third party software to even be allowed to play a game, even for my own single player and personal enjoyment. Not to say that I've had bad experiences with it, but I feel like it's a lot of needless strings attached and is detrimental to what I wanted to do in the first place. Even registering my nickname on ZDaemon for the first time was one of the hardest things in Doom I've ever brought myself to do. (as _40oz, mind you, they didn't permit to make a name that started with a number)

40oz said:

I'm pretty sure I'm a minority in this, but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of creating a username and password or using third party software to even be allowed to play a game, even for my own single player and personal enjoyment. Not to say that I've had bad experiences with it, but I feel like it's a lot of needless strings attached and is detrimental to what I wanted to do in the first place. Even registering my nickname on ZDaemon for the first time was one of the hardest things in Doom I've ever brought myself to do. (as _40oz, mind you, they didn't permit to make a name that started with a number)

First world problems. Jeese.

Jodwin said:

First world problems. Jeese.

Third world solutions, yay.

Jodwin said:

First world problems. Jeese.

Call it what you want but the very dawn of video games proved that you didn't need a registration and long loading times for them to be fun.

I'm assuming you're comparing Diablo 3 to D2 here, or if nothing else, D2's design derivatives like Torchlight, which you mentioned earlier.

Jodwin said:
anyone who likes that game [Diablo 3] is comparable to a CoD fanboy

Yes, because leveling and allocating a single point to a stat, to negligible effect, in order to reach an arbitrarily chosen number so you can equip gear is great design. Feeling compelled to reroll a character from scratch because you made a mistake on a build is great design (yeah, Diablo 2 added VERY limited respecs... like ten years after it came out lol... TL still doesn't have it, unmodded). Gaining multiple levels with almost no reward because you're saving points to spend on a skill/aura/whatever that unlocks at a certain level is great design. Filling up your action bar with potions and then chain-spamming them to stay alive is just fantastic gameplay. Oh, wait, those are actually all fucking terrible ideas, and Diablo 3 improved significantly on every single one. For all its faults, Diablo 3 hit it out of the park with its elegant, powerful skill/rune system. If you can't appreciate just how brilliant this design is, I don't know what to do for you. I guess I would point you to Sirlin's writeup about it. You have to look past the minutiae of soulless, arbitrary, incremental character building, and look at how dynamically your choices actually affect gameplay, and whether those effects are robust or rather impotent.

Otherwise, I guess you can just play Marvel Heroes and continue masturbating to David Brevik's outdated, cumbersome mess of a character system. Some of us with an eye and mind toward beautiful design appreciate Diablo 3 in a profound way, and I wouldn't call myself a fanboy in the least. In fact, there's a mountain of terrible issues plaguing Diablo 3 and they hold it back from being great. But its character customization is not one of them, overpowered builds creating disincentive to try unique builds notwithstanding.

For example: There's no question that the loot generation in Diablo 3, along with its AH, are cancerous to the game, in their current form. There's no question that the absence of ladders has left a void and compounds the lack of endgame activities. It's a flawed game in its current state. This is probably why Jay Wilson, despite his numerous successes on the project, is no longer the game director.

There's quite a lot to appreciate in Diablo 3, and simply dismissing the opinion of those that like it, as you have done frequently, demonstrates both a lack of taste for discerning great design, as well as well as a blatant rudeness toward posters that haven't wronged you or anyone else -- you just want to tear down their different opinion. And that's a pretty bullshit way to participate in a discussion.

I hated the way in which D3 ties every skill and rune into developing character DPS. Sure you can switch up your abilities on the fly, but you inevitably end up with the same cookie cutter builds. Having to start an entirely new character in D2 for different skill build was part of the fun to be honest. D2 had a far wider range of items for augmenting your character instead of grinding to boost your derps-per-scond. Or paying to win with the auction house. Lastly, no throwing weapon Barbarian builds in D3.

Torchlight, can't comment one way or the other.

SYS said:
you inevitably end up with the same cookie cutter builds.

This is a problem, but I'm not sure Diablo 2 did it any better. You were required (read: REQUIRED) assign X amount of attribute points to certain stats for stupid, binary reasons (without X points in strength, you can't wear this armor) and Energy was ignored outright, which is terrible design, obviously. WW barb and hammerdin -- how often are these two mainstay builds deviated from? Probably not much more often than D3's WW barb.

Having to start an entirely new character in D2 for different skill build was part of the fun to be honest.

Difference of preference here, but I don't see how it's fun to re-tread the same leveling content just so you can allocate your points differently, as opposed to either changing out skills/runes or, in the case of WoW, clicking your respec button. Maybe I've been playing RPGS for too many years, but I'm SO OVER leveling, and I have been for a long time. It's OK the first fucking four times (normal, nightmare, hell, inferno), but the endgame is what the game is really about.

I prefer not having a character select screen with several failed projects/experiments just sitting there. It's much more elegant to be able to do all of your barb stuff on one barb, and the sense of ownership of the character is increased when all of your eggs are in that one basket. That said, I totally get the appeal of ladders, a system which plays nicely with the notion that people want to reroll constantly.

D2 had a far wider range of items for augmenting your character instead of grinding to boost your derps-per-scond

Can you elaborate on this?

Or paying to win with the auction house.

YEP. This is the root of Diablo 3's biggest problems, in my opinion. When item drops (both the rate at which items drop, and the stats that are generated when the item spawns) are designed with the knowledge of the AH existing, the whole system gets fucked. To avoid an ABSOLUTELY AVALANCHE of amazing items on the AH, which everyone has access to, truly great items have to be infinitesimally rare, which means it takes an unreasonable amount of time to farm them, which in turn means you feel compelled to use the AH, which in turn means you don't have much reason to play in the endgame at all. Circular problem. In the expansion, they're looking to improve the situation by making it more likely that the items that drop are useful for YOU and making fewer items drop in general, thus fewer garbage items. I think the intent is that the best way to get items to self farm, as it should be, and the AH is there if you just have truly shitty luck. I can deal with that. :)

Or we can just buy the console version, which was designed from scratch without the AH in mind.

Lastly, no throwing weapon Barbarian builds in D3.

Not true! In fact, throw barb was just about the ONLY viable build in Inferno, pre-nerf. It is true that WW pretty much trumps everything right now, but throw builds exist, and I imagine that the throw build strat is still useful if you are playing undergeared in a Monster Power 10 run or something.