Switcheroom! Or, what if E1M1 was E3M1? (Release Candidate 3, aiming for whenever)

Oh, I guess I did miss them... Or at least in the case of the first one, I put it in the WAD, but not on the front page. Same with one of Jaws in Space's, which coincidentally, I forgot to even say was a missing name.

I made some minor changes and added player starts and extra weapons for death-match. I still need to do the other skill levels, which I'll work on when I get home from work tonight.

Link

I always wanted to tell, but never had the time, so...
On E1M2, there are numerous STARTAN misalignments just f*cking up the eye, most seen in the "drop into nukage pool and enter the narrow pathway" secret area, respectively. To my comment, it is clear that the author either forgot to offset to 0 after splitting up the linedefs, or he used autoalign.

Okay so I'm going to go ahead and play through all of the maps & give my detailed opinion on every one. I'll be playing through on UV from pistol start on each map.

E1M1
-First off I'm going to say that I think that this map was the lesser of the 2 that were submitted for this slot, I always thought that Traversed version based off of E4M1 was a better map & I still stand firmly to the belief that we should have used his map instead of Doomkids.
-Now as for this map itself, right away I'm going to complain about the use of non E1 textures here, so far E1M2, E1M3, E1M5, & E1M7 are the only maps strictly using only E1 textures, it really needs to be all of the E1 maps doing this, not just half of them.
-Also speaking of non E1 things, how about those trees everywhere right at the start they really should be removed.
-Next thing I have to complain about is the 2nd green armor, even on UV difficulty I found it to be completely useless, if it's absolutely necessary for an armor to be there it should be a blue armor, but that causes problems because blue armor should only be found in a secret area. So then I might make the suggestion to remove the first green armor, but then it would make it less like E1M1 where you get the green armor right away. A possible solution is to make the second green armor a blue one & just make that whole room a secret area
-Speaking of secret areas, I found that the secret lift with the box of ammo & shotgun shells was not well marked at all, in fact I only found it because I've played E1M1 before & that wall has a switch texture on it.
-Then there is the secret area containing the backpack, this one is not marked at all, I only knew about this one because I have played older versions of this map. Also why is there even a backpack on this map this is E1M1.
-Since were talking about that area I should mention that I think the room beyond the Exit door it unnecessary, why not just make the room with the secret backpack the Exit instead of having 2 rooms of the same shape right after one another, besides the 2nd exit room just looks pretty ugly with that overhang.
-Over all I felt that there was an overabundance of Shotgun ammo & health in the latter half of the map.

E1M2
-Okay first I think that it needs to be said that this look almost nothing like E4M2, beside the lift that leads to behind the start, the yellow key room, & maybe the exit room there is nothing that would clearly indicate that the original map was E4M2. Honestly I would hardly say it resembles E1M2 either, except for the computer maze. This map need a truly major overhaul in it's overall design.
-There are only 2 deathmatch starts on this map, I'm pretty sure you need to have more than that.
-Now for some hard to see stuff, the stairs you are supposed to go down right near the start of the map are fairly hard to see, they should be made a little bit wider.
-Also the switch right there that is needed to open the door should be either facing the start or facing the wall, not facing a direction so that you run past it not even knowing that it's there only to have to run down to push it to get the door to open.
-The platform that lifts you up to behind the start is too small, it's almost impossible to avoid getting hit by an imp fireball unless you jump back down into the acid.
-The floor that raises in the yellow key room is lower unpegged, which makes it look really fake as it rises.
-The texture misalignment on the secret door for the outside area is really bad, the different textures already give it away that it is a secret door, the misalignment's are unnecessary, besides anyone that's ever gotten outside in E1M5 knows how this secret works.
-I think that the red key is a little bit hidden, perhaps it could be moved to the end of the platform where the health potions are so it could be more visible, as soon as you enter the room.
-While it's good that you removed the rocket launcher, the second backpack seems to be a little redundant, I think that there are enough secrets in this map that you could just remove one of them altogether.

E1M3
-I'll admit that I screwed up in taking this slot with this map, I should have taken E2M3 slot & then I wouldn't have had to deal with the non E1 textures, the berserk secret, & the teleporting monsters.
-I believe that the teleporting monsters are the only issue that people currently have with this map, I'm really opposed to removing them because I think it makes that trap more interesting, besides teleporting monsters were used in episode 1, but that was the secret map.

E1M9
-Usage of non E1 textures here.
Nothing else to really complain about, it's a pain to beat from pistol start, but I'm sure most people will play continuously so no changes are needed.

E1M4
-Firsts things first, this map was one of the worst offenders for use of non E1 textures, they are all over the place in this map & should be removed.
-Second once again the issue of teleporters comes up, this time it deals with teleportser that the player uses. Now in E1M5 & E1M8 there are teleporters that that player can use, but one is in a secret area & the other is the end of the episode.
-I still think that those tekpillars should be removed in the exit room as they block the view of the enemies.
-It seemed to me that there wasn't enough health in the first half of the map until I got the soul sphere.
-Speaking of the soul sphere, I don't believe that the lift or the line you have to run over is marked in any way, you just sort of have to run in every direction along the tops of the pillars until the door opens.

E1M5
-No deathmatch starts, I suppose if necessary you could just put the starts in the same place as they are in E2M5.
I really don't have anything to complain about with this map, it is clearly the best from E1.

E1M6
-Usage of Non E1 textures.
-I've only ever played E4M6 once before & I attempted to play an older version of this map by death egg, but I'd still say I'm pretty unfamiliar with this map, but Damn, I had no freaking idea where I was supposed to go half the time.
So I started the map & cleared out the outside area, found the secret armor as well. Had a little trouble dealing with the specters due to ammo running low, but nothing major plus there is a box of shells right past them. Next I just stood on the ledge & killed as many bad guys as I could until everyone I could see was dead, then I decided to jump down into the acid to hit the switch. This is were things started to go down hill, I hit one of the switches & had no idea what it did. I didn't want to go look around because I would take damage, so I hit the other switch & out of the corner of my screen saw that it lowered 2 lifts, so I ran to the nearest one. I then cleared out this platform & took the lift that takes you outside to the red & yellow key doors. I didn't see anywhere else that I could go so I ran toward what I thought was an opening to get to the red key, but the opening was to small so I just ended up taking damage. So now I was really confused as to where to go so I ran back up to the main area & jumped into the acid to look around because it was the only thing left for me to do. So after taking some more damage while looking around I decided to go back & hit that switch that I didn't know what it did the first time, this time I saw the lift that it lowered, so I ran onto it & saw the blue key. All I had to do was make the simple jump to the other platform to get it, but of course I screwed up, so back into the acid taking damage once again, hit the switch, go up the lift, & finally get the blue key. So then I jump back into the acid, take some damage, hit the correct switch, run to the nearest lift that lowers, take some damage, then hit some switches to get the yellow key. But now I forgot where the yellow key door was, was it down in the acid pit again, of was it somewhere else. Well I decided to jump into the acid again, but nope the door's not there it's outside. So finally I find the yellow door, hit the switch go find the red key and just leave the level as fast as I can because I just had a terrible time with it so far, I didn't even want to stay to look for secrets, because I know that the chainsaw one would have me jump back into that acid pit again.
-make windows to see red key smaller so people do run into the acid thinking that it is the way to go.
-Another major change I think could really help this map is to get rid of the acid floor in the main room, I was constantly jumping down in there & taking damage while I trying to figure out where to go.
-I had other issues with this map, but I think I've rambled along for long enough about this map.
-In the end what I'm trying to say is that I really really hate this map.

E1M7
-The start was a little rough, maybe a small reduction of monsters could help.
-Throughout the map there was just a slight lack of health, it's mostly noticeable because of that start.
-I didn't like the acid maze in E3M7 & I don't like it here, that's all I'll say about that.
Other than those nitpicks I would say that this is my second favorite map from E1 very good overall

E1M8
-No deathmatch starts.
-Non E1 texture usage.
-This is an absolute joke of a map, I mean seriously 2 Barons in that wide open space?!?
-This map needs to be either way smaller, or it needs to have way more Barons revealed when that switch gets hit.


As far as teleporters go, I just remembered that we made gothic take all of the teleporters out of E1M7, I don't believe it would be fair to him if we used teleporterss in other E1 maps, what are your guys opinions on their use?

Okay done for today Episode 2 tomorrow.

Jaws In Space said:

E1M6...I had no freaking idea where I was supposed to go half the time.

Welcome to E4M6. I had to make this image to remind myself of the route when working on the map ;)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56320770/E4M6_path.png

Your comments make some good points. I've swapped which lifts each switch on the central pillar activate so that hopefully the player will see them. Alternatively I could reduce it down to 1 switch but I fear that having 3 separate lifts activate off the 1 switch would be more confusing :p

I made the windows looking into the red key more obvious as only a viewport, not an entrance.

re: nukage in main room. It sounds like the radsuit in the middle needs to be set for UV too (so have made that change). I had only given UV the rad suit tucked away in the partial invis room. I think the nukage in the main room needs to stay since the hallmark of E4M6 is navigating around the lava everywhere. I've already removed some of the nukage at the start to account for E1 difficulty.

Jaws In Space said:

As far as teleporters go, I just remembered that we made gothic take all of the teleporters out of E1M7, I don't believe it would be fair to him if we used teleporters in other E1 maps, what are your guys opinions on their use?

Teleport specials were used 3 times in the shareware IIRC - and really were just there for WTF value. From E2 on they are common modes of transport. There is probably some value in having a couple of teleport specials used across the episode but I think E1M4 has too many like E1M7 did earlier.

Here are updates to E1M6 and E1M9. BTW I used the shareware IWAD to locate and find non-E1 content textures/flats. Is that what you are requesting? or is it what was used in the episode? If so, are you planning on assessing the same for E2-E4?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56320770/de_e1m6_NovUpdate1.wad
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56320770/de_e1m9_NovUpdate1.wad

PS. Not sure if its good or bad, your dislike for E1M6 - TBH the original E4M6 isn't high up on my list of favorites :p

Jaws In Space said:

E1M5
-No deathmatch starts, I suppose if necessary you could just put the starts in the same place as they are in E2M5.
I really don't have anything to complain about with this map, it is clearly the best from E1.

Thanks!

Regarding deathmatch support, it's not only about adding the starts, but also multiplayer item/weapon placement. As I already mentioned, if anyone is feeling like doing so, please do it! :P

traversd said:

Welcome to E4M6. I had to make this image to remind myself of the route when working on the map ;)
blahblahblah

I actually think your E4-1M6 is one of the strongest maps in the first episode. As you already stated, the layout of the original E4M6 is pretty confusing; I think you managed to remake it just fine.

traversd said:
Here are updates to E1M6 and E1M9. BTW I used the shareware IWAD to locate and find non-E1 content textures/flats. Is that what you are requesting? or is it what was used in the episode? If so, are you planning on assessing the same for E2-E4?

I am requesting that everyone use textures that were used in episode 1, I was assuming that the shareware only contained E1 textures. After a quick download I see that it's not the case, but only slightly different, for some reason the shareware contains Flat 1 & Sw1starg, but they are not used anywhere in episode 1. No I will not be doing the same for the rest of the episodes unless it is requested, no one seems to be as worried about incorrect textures in the other episodes.

Noticed a few issues on your update for E1M9.

thx. have removed that (was part of the arrangement with the non-E1 lights). Straightened the bridge completely.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56320770/de_e1m9_NovUpdate1.wad

Okay, worked my way through E3. This is the "fun" one to critique, heh.

E3M1 (E1M1):
- If you turn around at the start, the doorway has unaligned brick sides, and a wood ceiling which looks weird. There's also a floor rule violation going into the flesh snakes. Image
- One of the window edges by the shotgun has brick instead of wood like the rest.
- This might be hard, but is it possible to align the green vines on the secret door with the surrounding brown vines?
- The vines in the upper secret corridor could use some aligning.

E3M2 (E2M2):
- There's a HOM when opening the door from the secret hallway (hidden by the walk-through wall) back into the grey stone area. Image
- The vine in the lava bleeds into the floor; this can be fixed by changing either the height or the lighting between sectors

E3M4 (E1M4):
- (deep breath)
- The locked entry door behind the player start has unaligned upper and lower textures. Image
- Personal preference, but when you're using the SUPPORT3 texture (or in this case, BIGDOOR?), I think it looks a ton better when given an X offset of 4. Image (This applies to multiple areas and maps)
- Not sure if the red brick upper ledges on the windows is intentional (judging from the rest of the level, it is) but it looks pretty bad and clashy, IMO. Image
- In the drop-down area near the soulsphere, the blood is the same level as the ground. And the normal bricks don't align with the blood bricks at all. Image
- One side of the sector with the soulsphere doesn't have the bricks aligned properly (the other one does). Image
- More weird combination of red and green bricks. Image. I feel in some other areas, such as this, it's okay (since the red bricks line up with the detail on the floor, and they should stand out since they're a lift/floor) but in other places it just looks tacky.
- Personal preference, but I'm really disappointed all the doors to the blue key don't open/close as one. Always liked that part of E1M4.
- Floor rule violation in the blue key room.
- Blood on a lift, blood on an upper level, blood on the ledges? Image
- These random bits of GSTONE by the blue door look really weird and out of place. Image
- Using DOORTRAK and DOORHI as step textures?
- Floor rule violation going into the blue door
- Unaligned textures on the flame windows in the area after the blur door
- Yellow door sides need unpegging, and a DOORTRAK or SUPPORT3 texture.
- BFG area has a HOM in the doorway (both sides of the lower door frame). Image, though it's kinda hard to see there.
- The door frame is also tagged as damaging, when it shouldn't be. It also probably shouldn't be lava. And the door frame needs DOORTRAK.
- Gameplay wise, I feel like the BFG is a bit too freely given away here. It's not even out of sight, requiring a "leap of faith" like the original E3M4.
- Unaligned upper texture over the tech door Image
- Lack of DOORTRAK on the tech door
- Exit door needs unpegging on its sides

E3M5 (E1M5):
- Not really an error, but using the red texture on the underside of the doors is a little weird. Image
- The bridge that rises out of the lava (sector 64) is still damaging when raised. Looking at the wiki, this is because linedef type 15 doesn't change the sector attributes (though this wouldn't be apparent in DB2). Changing it to linedef type 20 fixes this.
- Why are some of the linedefs in the southeast corner of the map tagged as hidden?
- Unmarked exit... bad!

E3M6 (E1M6):
- Following the previous discussion about adjusting the X alignment for SUPPORT3 textures, the door to the red key would look better if it was centered more, IMO. Image
- The walls on the red brick building near the secret aren't aligned in various places
- Floor rule violation on the yellow door
- The marble doors that close when you enter the exit area aren't aligned
- The secret exit switch is completely unmarked. Bad!

E3M9 (E4M9):
- It's not that noticeable in the scheme of things given that it's FIREBLU, but the two staircases near the start need alignment, as every step starts the wall textures again.
- Floor texture rule violations on the doors going off the BFG room
- As discussed previously, the lifts using METAL would look a lot better if they were offset slightly. Image
- The REDROCK on the stairs to the BFG needs aligning
- Here's another example of needing texture alignment where there's a staircase, much more noticeable on the wood textures. And is that barrel supposed to be on the window ledge?
- Are the green armor and berserk supposed to be off-center?
- The doors to the exit look weird being so squished. They also have horrible grey stone floors for no reason.
- More texture alignment needed on the stairs to the exit.
- Unmarked exit... three in a row!

E3M7 (E1M7):
- The GSTONE at the start isn't aligned where the ceiling touches. Image
- Don't really like the lights here getting cut off.
- Floor rule violation in the snakes corridor.
- A "instantly rising from the floor" ambush on the red key? I dunno... I know this isn't quite a DTWID project, but given that most people have stuck that way, it seems a bit too much.
- Many of the windows don't have their textures aligned on the sides. Image
- A ledge with blood on it going down to a non-blood ledge looks weird. I think even Hell follows the laws of Newtonian motion. Just add a lip? Image
- The area near the yellow key has blood the same height as the floor. Image
- I don't really like the design of the exit portal with the sky because the texture abruptly cuts off in the middle, but this may not happen in every port. Image

E3M8 (E4M8):
- Floor texture rule violation right at the start (though I suppose the original E3M8 has this exact same one)

Also, something I'd like comments on from everyone:

As I said back in May, I still feel that the E3M8 replacement doesn't really come close enough in any respect to being E4M8. It feels much more like the original E3M8 (two rooms, 4 enemies) with some slight nods to the E4M8 (the keys). I know that a lot of pepole were "combining" areas of the maps, but this one doesn't stick close to the actual map layout of E4M8 at all. I don't want to be a dick to C30N9, especially after he did such a good job overhauling E3M2 to better match the original's layout, but I really feel that this is a disappointing end to E3 and needs a redo. I understand we only have a month left, though. Could try taking a shot at it myself, but, time's a tickin and I'm not the fastest mapper in the world. And I don't want to squeeze C30N9 out of his mapslot. But I'd like to know what others think since no one else really commented on it back in May when the issue was raised (except a couple comments of "yeah that doesn't really look like E4M8 at all).

Magnusblitz said:
Also, something I'd like comments on from everyone:

As I said back in May, I still feel that the E3M8 replacement doesn't really come close enough in any respect to being E4M8. It feels much more like the original E3M8 (two rooms, 4 enemies) with some slight nods to the E4M8 (the keys). I know that a lot of pepole were "combining" areas of the maps, but this one doesn't stick close to the actual map layout of E4M8 at all. I don't want to be a dick to C30N9, especially after he did such a good job overhauling E3M2 to better match the original's layout, but I really feel that this is a disappointing end to E3 and needs a redo. I understand we only have a month left, though. Could try taking a shot at it myself, but, time's a tickin and I'm not the fastest mapper in the world. And I don't want to squeeze C30N9 out of his mapslot. But I'd like to know what others think since no one else really commented on it back in May when the issue was raised (except a couple comments of "yeah that doesn't really look like E4M8 at all).

I am currenty very opposed to the current version of this map, in addition to a few others, & I think it is in desperate need of a redo. Knowing you Magnusblitz I'm sure you already have some thing started, & I say go for it unless C30N9 comes back & decides to do it himself.

Also I think it's a bunch of crap to say that we need to have this thing ready in exactly 1 month's time. Sure Death Egg want's it out in time for a Cacoward, but I say that we take our time & guarantee that we actually get one. This definitely has potential to be a winner, but not in it's current form. I thought Death Egg would have learned not to rush a project to completion after the reaction to the Monochrome Mapping Project.

Magnusblitz said:

E3M7 (E1M7):[/b]
- The GSTONE at the start isn't aligned where the ceiling touches. Image
- Don't really like the lights here getting cut off.
- Floor rule violation in the snakes corridor.
- A "instantly rising from the floor" ambush on the red key? I dunno... I know this isn't quite a DTWID project, but given that most people have stuck that way, it seems a bit too much.
- Many of the windows don't have their textures aligned on the sides. Image
- A ledge with blood on it going down to a non-blood ledge looks weird. I think even Hell follows the laws of Newtonian motion. Just add a lip? Image
- The area near the yellow key has blood the same height as the floor. Image
- I don't really like the design of the exit portal with the sky because the texture abruptly cuts off in the middle, but this may not happen in every port. Image

Thank you for providing feedback on my map. You are actually the only one except Death Egg to do so. Well I see you've criticized several things:

• Texture misalignments. Honestly, I don't want to fix them. Firstly it would be a difficult work, and secondly the result of such a work would look unnatural to the extent of disturbing and distracting, I think. I'd better keep it this simple. Besides, even real marble must be cut off somewhere.
  
• Floor rule vioations. It's a Romero's rule. I wasn't really trying to emulate Romero in this map (except the original Romero's layout, of course). I don't find them an objective problem in maps that literally decide to deny Romero, my eyes could stand them alright. However if people have a problem with that, I may fix them.
  
• The red cut-off lights actually have a purpose, didn't you notice? If you find them unbearable anyway (tell me if you do), I'll get rid of them or the whole thing in the area.
  
• Red key ambush is actually just a fast floor rise, not instant-surprise. There are several fast (or slow) floor rises in the map.
  
• Blood not falling down. I know of it, again there are more instances of this choice in the map. But I haven't found a better texture solution, and I thing all the raised floors to create a lip doesn't look the best, as seen in other parts of the map (like the plasmagun bridge). I don't believe Hell has to follow any physical laws, just look at the original E3M1 building.
  
• Exit. Well thank you, I will change it to something more standard, like a white teleporter.

Regarding E3M8: I agree it's more like a layout combo which should have taken more of original E3M8 layout than E4M8 layout, but did the opposite. The map makes sense as a final boss map, has to be admitted. An overhaul, involving bringing more of E4M8 layout in, as well as less E4M8 texturing homages, would help though.

Also, the map (E3M8) is bugged, the teleporters in lava don't work, at least in Zandronum in which I tested.

Is E1M6 supposed to be so completely broken that I can just SR40 everywhere and circumvent all key quests to get to the exit?

scifista42 said:

Texture misalignments. Honestly, I don't want to fix them. Firstly it would be a difficult work, and secondly the result of such a work would look unnatural to the extent of disturbing and distracting, I think. I'd better keep it this simple. Besides, even real marble must be cut off somewhere.

Floor rule vioations. It's a Romero's rule. I wasn't really trying to emulate Romero in this map (except the original Romero's layout, of course). I don't find them an objective problem in maps that literally decide to deny Romero, my eyes could stand them alright. However if people have a problem with that, I may fix them.

It's up to you, I list them but I'm not saying they 100% need to be changed. For example, when we were talking about E1M5, it was pointed out that some of the texture mis-alignments were on purpose, and could be found in the original. I think the upper/lower texture ones over doorway/windows should be fixed - its rare to see in the original game, the engine was specifically designed for it, and it's an easy fix. As far as some of the other horizontal alignments, it's nice and easy sometimes to fix but yeah, don't feel like you need to go crazy. Especially since there's some in the original E3M7 (as well as the red key doors not being offset, so, you win that one).

For the Romero Rule, you're right. I'm anal about it because I personally think it stands out like a sore thumb, but I know that not everyone feels the same way. And yeah, it's a Sandy Petersen level, so I can understand rejecting Romero's rules here. Just pointing them out where I see them.

The red cut-off lights actually have a purpose, didn't you notice? If you find them unbearable anyway (tell me if you do), I'll get rid of them or the whole thing in the area.

I did notice the false wall, I just didn't put two and two together that the lights were supposed to be a hint that it was there. Understandable. Maybe just make the false-wall sector with the FIREBLU behind it have the lights extend in the ceiling to cure my crippling love for alignment? :)

Red key ambush is actually just a fast floor rise, not instant-surprise. There are several fast (or slow) floor rises in the map.

Well, obviously it needs to be fast because otherwise it wouldn't be Doom-compatible. My point is just that they feel non-Doom-like, as I don't think such a thing was used in the IWAD (but I may be wrong on this).

Exit. Well thank you, I will change it to something more standard, like a white teleporter.

I do like the idea of the exit, just not the execution. If there's a way to fix it, I'd go with that (though obviously the white teleport is always a fallback). I loaded it up in ChocoDoom to see if the sky wouldn't start the texture break in the same place; unfortunately it does - and worse, there's some HOMs as well.

I'm sorry this is the first feedback you've gotten. It's ugly to my eyes, and a bit difficult to get around, but I'm okay with that for an E3M7... and I think you definitely captured the zanyness of the original E3 in a way I know I couldn't.

Additional bug for E3M4: the steps going to the northeast section use STEP1 for 16-high steps, causing a tutti-fruiti in vanilla Doom. I do most of my testing in ZDoom; I don't know that anyone has gone through all these maps yet in vanilla/Choco to test the tuttis yet.

BaronOfStuff said:

Is E1M6 supposed to be so completely broken that I can just SR40 everywhere and circumvent all key quests to get to the exit?

I take it a jump from the tall lift to the BK over to the exit platform is possible? or just straight across the first gap?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56320770/e1m6_jump.png

EDIT: heh.. I forgot to mark the windows to the RK/YK silos impass too sorry!

traversd said:

I take it a jump from the tall lift to the BK over to the exit platform is possible? or just straight across the first gap?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56320770/e1m6_jump.png

Nope, from these angles you can just run through these gaps and hit the switches behind the Red/Yellow doors without needing the keys, and open the map up entirely:






Edit:
Bah, already pointed out. Oh well!

Do these changes prevent access? I have left the linedefs passable so the player can jump out, but moved the walkway back a bit to (hopefully) prevent jumping in.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56320770/de_e1m6_NovUpdate1.wad

Here's e2-4m1 with skill levels and some minor additions and fixes.

Link

Yep, I certainly couldn't get in at all with SR40. It may still be possible to bypass the Red Door with SR50, but I couldn't be bothered to try that more than 5 times.

These maps are going to have 3 DEMO files included for vanilla players, right? (I guess they'd show up in Odamex and Doom Legacy too)

This is such a tiny point, but who will record the demos? Does anyone mind if I record one for the final release? Doom1.9 of course.

And with that, off to beta test!

Doomkid92 said:

This is such a tiny point, but who will record the demos? Does anyone mind if I record one for the final release? Doom1.9 of course.

I wouldn't mind recording one either; I assume we're supposed to play like shit, to capture that old feel of watching the original demos?


Another bug (probably already mentioned): DeHackEd says that E3M5 is a remake of E4M5, when it's clearly E1M5!

@Traversd
Okay I just want to mention that you use Sw1starg throughout E1M6. You are using it because it's included in the shareware for some reason, even though it doesn't appear anywhere in Episode 1. Now I just went through every single Doom map & now I'm really confused because it's not even used at all. That texture is not just a non E1 texture, it's not even a Doom texture, it also doesn't even appear in Doom2, Evilution, or Plutonia.

Now out of pure curiosity does anyone know why it's even in Doom?

Jaws In Space said:

Now out of pure curiosity does anyone know why it's even in Doom?

Because they knew I would like to use it?

:p

I gave the latest linked version of E1 a run through, I just wanted to note the basic gist what I saw.

e1m1 - This map bears very little resemblance to the source map, and the layout is a complete cluster-fuck.
e1m2 - Pretty much the same complaints as e1m1.
e1m3 - The layout here is at least recognizable, but much of the texturing resembles E2. Some of the rooms and decorative details (such as the cross-shaped doorway) could be changed, or even omitted, to better resemble E1 architecture. The teleporting monsters and hanging/impaled bodies need to go.
e1m4 - The layout is recognizable, but again, some of it resembles E2 more than E1. The teleporters need to go, the layout here can be achieved without the use of them.
e1m5 - Some parts are E2-themed, which defeats the purpose, since this was originally an E2 map to begin with.
e1m6 - No major complaints here. I would have gone a different way with some of the texturing and architecture, but that can be chalked up to personal taste. Maybe change the walk-through secret wall in the first outdoor area into a lowering sector instead.
e1m7 - Some of the layout has been changed to the point of being unrecognizable in comparison to the source, but the theme was a pretty solid E1 for the most part.
e1m8 - Meh. The texturing seems fitting for E1, and nothing really seems out of place, but it's just a weak map.
e1m9 - I'll admit there's not much you can do with the e2m9 layout, but beyond the basic shape of the first area, this map also bears little resemblance to the source material.

It seems that most of these maps have been approached in the manner of "what if level X was level Y" instead of "what if level X was from episode Y", which is what the project aimed to do in the first place. Authors are trying to incorporate too many elements from a specific map, and in the process are changing the layouts drastically, instead of keeping the layouts mostly the same and changing the overall theme.

Huh. I have to say I disagree entirely about e1m1. I think the layout of e3m1 is pretty clearly and easily discerned in it.

BaronOfStuff said:

Another bug (probably already mentioned): DeHackEd says that E3M5 is a remake of E4M5, when it's clearly E1M5!

My apologies. Death Egg, please open the .deh file in text editor and change the "E4M5" to "E1M5", so I don't have to upload. :p

Megalyth said:

It seems that most of these maps have been approached in the manner of "what if level X was level Y" instead of "what if level X was from episode Y", which is what the project aimed to do in the first place.

This was one of the flaws with the project as a whole, was that some people thought it should be "level X in episode Y" and some people thought it should be "level X as level Y." If you go through the thread there were lots of comments/discussion espousing both directions.

I've decided to attempt to make Walters E1M2 map resemble E4M2 more, while still keeping with his original design. This mostly consisted of removing rooms that were not in the original map, such as the entire middle section, & the hallways that led to the chaingun. I think it's still far from perfect, but it is a step in the right direction. Here is the map, if Walter doesn't like the changes that I made then disregard this post.

Okay here's one for E1M4 Removed all of the teleporters. As with the last one, if Saliva doesn't like the changes, then disregard this post.

Lastly here is one for E1M8 Added about 12 more barons & some more specters, removed the chaingun & shotgun, but added the rocket launcher, because who want's to fight 16 barons without a rocket launcher.

Megalyth said:

e1m5[/b] - Some parts are E2-themed, which defeats the purpose, since this was originally an E2 map to begin with.

Which parts, for example?

Jaws In Space said:

Added about 12 more barons & some more specters, removed the chaingun & shotgun but added the rocket launcher, because who want's to fight 16 barons without a rocket launcher.

NO. Put them back. Now. Because who wants to fight 12 Demons with a Pistol? Especially when the barrels in one of the rooms don't even do anything?