NOVA: The Birth [Beta Playtesting Thread - We're ready!]

It's finally here! We've got 32 maps and we need some feedback before we can upload them to idgames!

Download here, NOVA: The Birth [December 13 Beta]
http://www.mediafire.com/download/494tcaxeymvx3hx/nova_beta_dec_13.zip

There might still be a few rough edges in places due to this being intended as a newbie mapper project and all, that and we've still got some more graphics to throw in, but we're basically done and we want to get this perfect before final release.

The development thread for NOVA: The Birth will remain open for participants to post map updates and graphics to enhance the project. This thread is strictly for testing and picking out what needs to be fixed and modified, as well as being a place for the general Dooming public to voice their thoughts on the megawad as it stands. Essentially, this is here to stop the development thread from getting too busy.

I too will be voicing my thoughts on each map as I have yet to play through the whole megawad. I think it will be an exciting journey and I look forward to it!

All the best!

kildeth.

I'll playtest them all as well, save my own maps.

Do you intend to make it multiplayer friendly? I played some beta in Zdaemon 2 months ago I think and I remember some maps getting stuck. (e.g. a player enters some area, the door behind closes, others can't enter) I don't remember all of them but maps 26 and 29 are two examples. In map26 the first area gets closed and in map29 the way to the last cyberdemon IIRC.
Maybe you could run through it in multiplayer with the other authors, should be a good and fun way to test the maps.

Memfis said:

Do you intend to make it multiplayer friendly? I played some beta in Zdaemon 2 months ago I think and I remember some maps getting stuck. (e.g. a player enters some area, the door behind closes, others can't enter) I don't remember all of them but maps 26 and 29 are two examples. In map26 the first area gets closed and in map29 the way to the last cyberdemon IIRC.
Maybe you could run through it in multiplayer with the other authors, should be a good and fun way to test the maps.

Yes we do want to make it multiplayer friendly for both cooperative and deathmatch modes (well, I do, anyway). It'll be something that'll have to be looked into soon as we've mostly concerned ourselves with map completion in single player up until now.

I've put some effort into adaptibg the maps to both coop and DM. While DM is a minor concern - most people would turn to full fledged DM wads for that - it is of course important that we playtest the Coop as well.

Im in Europe, if anyone else of the authors is here.

maps 1,6,11,13,15,16,18,19,23,25,26,27,28,29,30 are missing dm starts
map15 gives me a console warning (METALDRK not found)
map27 gives me a console warning (LAVA1 not found)
map32 gives me a console warning (MFLR8_3 not found)

I have a temporary DM server up on odamex for anyone wanting to try it out 2.108.108.74:10666

I have the feeling that next month's Megawad Club thread should be on NOVA.

Hurricyclone said:

I have the feeling that next month's Megawad Club thread should be on NOVA.

For playtesting purposes? Because it's a beta. There are a few things that would need to be fixed until final release. The skies for instance.

I think there will definitely be places in my maps where co op players could get locked out. Wouldn't be too difficult to fix though

played some 1v1 DM games on the first few maps here are my thoughts

02 - cool simple map. it's a rush to the plasma rifle in the middle of the map and then some careful plasma vs shotgun/cg play.

03 - this gun selection isn't very interesting, I think a RL or plasma would really help to spice it up. It's playable as is though and if you think RL/plasma would ruin coop you can leave it as it is without worries
http://i.imgur.com/L8RRO0D.png this door here is a big tease, players will be looking all over trying to open it. maybe take it out or put a secret switch opening a room there

04 - very cool map, definitely focused around the ssg in the exit, players will be listening closely at door sounds which is a huge part of this map, the windows up at the exit/ssg hallway are really good
I think a RL would do wonders on this map but if you think it will ruin coop feel free to leave it out
http://i.imgur.com/koCWT9n.png this one section doesnt have any guns in it it's very harsh for the player spawning there, you could consider putting a multiplayer-only shotgun or chaingun (or could be a fantastic spot for the RL if you are putting that in) down there
these lights on the hallway going to the exit/ssg make the hallway too narrow, you could move them further into the wall or widen the hall a little bit

05 - cool map, really like the bfg/ssg placement. don't have much to say it works as it is

I was playing MAP02, in the red card area I jumped out of the window from the room with the green armor and from there I couldn't get inside the building, even though I looked in the auto map, I saw I was supposed to open the secret instead of hopping out of the window, when I pushed that wall, it didn't do anything.

nub_hat said:

04 - very cool map, definitely focused around the ssg in the exit, players will be listening closely at door sounds which is a huge part of this map, the windows up at the exit/ssg hallway are really good
I think a RL would do wonders on this map but if you think it will ruin coop feel free to leave it out
http://i.imgur.com/koCWT9n.png this one section doesnt have any guns in it it's very harsh for the player spawning there, you could consider putting a multiplayer-only shotgun or chaingun (or could be a fantastic spot for the RL if you are putting that in) down there
these lights on the hallway going to the exit/ssg make the hallway too narrow, you could move them further into the wall or widen the hall a little bit

Thanks.

I had Doom Builder open so I just went ahead and did some of your changes. Pushed the lights further toward the wall and added a RL and SG in the southwestern corner.

EvilNed said:

For playtesting purposes? Because it's a beta. There are a few things that would need to be fixed until final release. The skies for instance.

Well, the Megawad Club did play some betas before, like Interception and Monochrome Mapping Project, so I don't see too much wrong in that.

nub_hat said:

map32 gives me a console warning (MFLR8_3 not found)

Are the console warnings popping up in just your port? I don't have errors on my end :).

MAP07 has a missing texture in the water tunnels, here.

Just a random observation: I noticed an HoM bug on MAP23.

http://i.imgur.com/FKAszXY.png
http://i.imgur.com/PYbh6SV.png

I believe my map (MAP24) has a similar bug, but I don't know how to fix it.

I'll start looking over the other maps, too.

map 2 has the most enormous toilets I've ever seen

Playing this, will post FDAs if I'm capable enough and random observations & suggestions as I go. I'm not very good at spotting texture misalignments and such but obviously will report anything I notice. Seems like a very competent wad for a "newbie" mapper project. Some of the later maps especially are really amazing.

FDAs, maps 01-03.

Map01: Not much to say, short and simple pretty much pistol only map. Ammo is tight if you don't find the berserk: I didn't and had to vanilla punch the Pinkie. There was one clip I didn't notice though and I missed some shots so I think the balance is good.

Map02: Really like the secret outdoor area, easily the highlight of the map. Lost Souls are also used like they should be here, I like how they creeped up on me later when I left some of them behind and eventually they annoyed me enough so I had to get rid of them anyway. The toilets are indeed goofy, not in a bad way though, and so is the crate room. Full blown crate walls tend to look pretty bad and this isn't really an exception.

Map03: Pretty different compared to the previous ones, more close quarters and awkward fighting. The outdoor area looks nice and has some bite too, I almost got taken down and without the invis I would've surely been dead. Speaking of which, the invis secret has a little bump when you enter, it's very noticeable even though it doesn't really make any difference in the end. The red tele beyond the red door doesn't work if you enter from the white teleports side, may or may not be intentional. The Arach at the end is a bit dumb, something more mobile would've been better imo.

First 14 levels at a glance (Hurt Me Plenty, pistol starts):

MAP01:
A solid, polished first map.

MAP02:
Fairly small map with a hub-and-spoke layout. A suitable second level to the mapset, but short on ammo. I ran out of bullets entirely part-way through the fight at the red door.

MAP03:
No problems here.

MAP04:
This map sticks out in my mind as very memorable. Presentation and gameplay are both great and everything is polished to a shine with one minor exception: there is a HoM error above a blood waterfall which can be seen through a window near the beginning of the map.
http://i.imgur.com/sOeUM25.png
http://i.imgur.com/LD4Utks.png

MAP05:
Nothing amiss.

MAP06:
The most satisfying combat this far into the wad. I did not notice misaligned textures or any other graphical anomalies. A bit of a nitpick, but the monsters inside of the "tunnel of death" present a significant challenge for somebody trying to achieve 100% kills.

MAP07:
Some misaligned textures. Inside of the dark, watery section of the map, there is a small window with vertical bars which appear to "glide" mysteriously when you strafe back and forth in front of them. This a weird graphical error and I don't know what the culprit is. The final chamber with the crushers, nukage, narrow corridors, cacodemons and chaingunners is very frustrating. Otherwise enjoyable.

Some examples of misaligned textures:
http://i.imgur.com/O4AAIfj.png
http://i.imgur.com/RCaeopt.png

I'll probably start offering my comments on each map starting tomorrow. Also, I want to fix up the intermission texts as some of the stuff I wrote out earlier looks really goofy in places. That, and there has yet to be a game-ending text. We'll have to look into that.

First 14 maps (continued):

MAP08:
Engaging gameplay. If there were alignments errors, I was too engrossed to notice them. I found myself ambushed and killed by spectres on my first playthrough.

MAP09:
A gratifying slaughterfest. The layout consists of a single, winding corridor which makes for a linear, "on-rails" experience, but not in a negative way. It has an arcade shoot-em-up vibe to it. This is the kind of map which gives you the momentum to keep playing for a while.

MAP10:
Has a sleek design and foreboding atmosphere. It's fun to see the partial invisibility powerup put to good use. Unfortunately, I reached a point in the map at which I could not figure out where to go. I became stuck inside of the main "hub" of the map which became closed off by vertical bars.

MAP11:
A hectic, running-and-gunning experience. I fell prey to the pain elementals several times. Solid visually and gameplay-wise.

MAP12:
Near the beginning of the map, a single imp appears to be partly stuck inside of something, giving the impression that it is dancing. Red and blue doors give little-to-no visual indication that they require a key to be opened (the blue door has horizontal blue lights on the ground, but they are easily missed). In the hallways surrounding the "atrium" area with trees inside of it, there are corners with ledges which emit light for no apparent reason. Were these supposed to have lamps on them? My guess would be yes. This level was fun to play and I thought the false exits were amusing (although, I'm not overly-fond of being cornered in a dark room by a gang of revenants).

http://i.imgur.com/JlDG8Nj.png

MAP13:
The initial moments of the map are slightly tedious when staring with only a pistol. Shooting demons to death with a cap-gun is less-than-fun, but I was never short on ammo. The switch that is used to gain access to the blue key appears as though it requires a blue key to activate. I had to wander around for a long time before I found the blue key. Some lifts and other floors which change height are pegged improperly and appear to "melt" rather than raise/lower. The outdoor and city areas of the map are great and the combat is very enjoyable. This is one of my favorite maps from the WAD.

I don't know how well this image conveys the fact that this lift isn't pegged properly, but it represents one of a small handful of similar errors:
http://i.imgur.com/MSivGcL.png

MAP14:
There are misaligned brick textures in this map, some more subtle than others. The dark gantlet full of mancubi is quite sadistic to try to slog through. Towards the very end, I ran out of ammo and had to run past the remaining enemies to the exit. Unfortunately, MAP15, the Prisoner cannot be completed unless you start the map with at least one bullet meaning the lack of ammo in this map could steer a person into a dead end.

http://i.imgur.com/ZzQd1T1.png

FDAs, maps 04-06.

Map04: So bumpy, looks nice but annoys a bit after a while. Otherwise the gameplay is fine, rather easy but fine nonetheless. The layout loops nicely, I like that. Chainsaw and berserk pack so close to eachother seems a bit redundant and I wouldn't even have picked up the chainsaw had I known about the berserk.

Map05: The layout in this map is really interesting. You can exit very quickly if you want to and the other yellow door doesn't seem to have much purpose other than restocking health and armor. Exit switch is technically unmarked but the glowing does hint that it might end the level so it's ok in my books. Texturing is a bit wild as it has just about every possible style present, in different rooms but also in single areas (see: the final area). Perhaps a slightly more coherent approach would've been better.

Map06: I like this map but there's one pretty glaring issue. It has WAY too much ammo, you could remove like half of it and still the player would be fairly comfortable. Yes, some of it is in secrets but some of them are very obvious and in a map with 8 secrets you'll know the player will be humping every suspicious looking wall. I see I missed two Revs and a HK but it doesn't really justify leaving with 90 shells, 300 bullets, unused RL, berserk and a chainsaw :p

Continuing...

FDAs for maps 07-09. No deaths up to this point.

Map07: This is a pretty good map, looks nice and gameplay flows decently. The berserk trap is of the douchebag kind, loved it haha. The nukage room with rising walkways is pretty neat, but it's the crusher and the released Caco waves that make it really amazing. My plan in the FDA worked pretty much perfectly and the result was simply beautiful.

Map08: This is alright too, kind of cramped for the most part but not offensive in any way. Visually really good looking but lack a bit in the gameplay front imo. There's the obligatory crate maze (cool lighting though!) and I feel like the outdoor area had more potential than what it is now.

Map09: This is a strange one. The meat of the map is a long ass corridor filled to the brim with all sorts of baddies. Despite the high monster count in the corridor, it's not very difficult and a bit tedious to be honest. It has a certain charm though and it's definitely bloody if nothing else. The room beyond the corridor is nicely done with the inclusion of the two AVs that can cause some serious trouble. The exit should be marked somehow or placed in an elevated platform or something. Accidental exits suck (see FDA).

Man, I bloody love that map 30. Took me about 50 minutes to get through all 5 routes, had to leave a lot of monsters behind though (mostly in cannonball's section, too much fun to run around letting them get on with it).

Playing in GZDoom, pistol start. Quite good so far. Largely agreeing with Veinen's comments.

MAP02:
Music is really loud compared to the music of the other maps. Captain's seat toilets, they're funny though.

MAP03:
This shotgun looks quite weird from the side: http://i.imgur.com/k9nxg4j.jpg

MAP04:
got stuck in the area with two lifts to a switch http://i.imgur.com/o0amXgM.png
chaingunners behind here never got released http://i.imgur.com/LbJzk85.png

MAP06:
Most secrets are visible on the automap as 2s linedefs. (Same thing in some other maps too, but especially here.) If it's intentional, fine, since the secrets all have texture clues I assume it's not though.

MAP08:
Invisible wall at the start is a little weird. Why not a grate?

Slight problem with map 13, its possible to get trapped where I am on this automap:

because the bridge that raises and splits the room in half only seems to have a lift switch on one side.

I'd like to play, too, not like Doom.wad for DWMC takes long to get through. Interested to see what else was in the pack that Immundum was a part of, that map kicked all kinds of ass.

FDAs for maps 1-5, skill 4.

Map 01 - Short even by map 01 standards, this was probably the neatest/cleanest of these first five maps. The hitscanner crossfire at the very start shows some teeth for the first fight of the game, I was probably lucky not to take more damage there. Seeing a keycard on a helipad a few seconds in seems like it's an intentional/self-conscious reference to PWADs in general, amusing on a map 01. Probably not something 99.9% of the audience cares about, but having the zombies behind 'fake' railings and imps behind presumably fake windows will sometimes allow their corpses to fly through seemingly-solid objects, perhaps a very minor aesthetic concern (although I always like when bodies can go flying around, myself).

Map 02 - Very obviously a 'newbie map', with many of the hallmarks of someone's early efforts--an undisguised keyhub, strangely thick doors, heavy orthogonality, IWAD references, you name it. The BGM was rather loud, but I liked the tune. I'm not sure how much work you guys intend to put into polishing these further--past a certain point it seems like someone could make the argument that you'd be getting away from the 'novice mapper' theme--but one easy improvement to this would be to change up the symmetrical monster placement. Since most of the areas are themselves symmetrical, having irregular monster placement will probably benefit the feel of combat within them to some degree. Not very important since there are other zombies close by, but if the author really intended for that first sergeant behind the reception desk to supply the first shotgun, his bench should probably be shortened or removed--I can see the shotgun getting stuck in an unreachable position rather easily depending on where the sarge is killed.

Map 03 - More visual fidelity here in some respects than in the previous maps (e.g. the curved shape and minute layering of the terrain in the outdoor yard, the lighting in the start room, etc), but man it's cramped. Nothing's actively dysfunctional, but when a map's centered so persistently on tiny doors off of tight corridors, it's difficult for the action not to tend to repeat a cycle of retreating/door-camping. Pardon my jackassery in the mancubus room, just screwing around.

Map 04 - Again, I can see some of the telltale novice tendencies here, particularly in the realm of idle surface detail, but I found the map entertaining, largely a product of monster placement. Floor bumpiness is certainly an issue of note in places here, although truth be told that's not something that usually bothers me personally to a great degree. Poor secret-finding performance from me here, found only the chainsaw and the non-secret berserk pack. The Baron should probably just be a hell knight or something instead; since the player can freely retreat from him, his extra HP only effects the fight through making it take longer than it needs to, rather than making him more dangerous. A monster-blocking line at the top of the last lift might be in order as well, as its narrow clearance means pinkies (and probably others) will tend to get stuck and hover in midair when they trigger it.

Map 05 - Neat BGM, sounded very familiar somehow, like it might be a rendition of a song I've heard somewhere else. But, to the point: this map malfunctioned catastrophically just a minute or two in, when I triggered an impact wall trying to get into a highly-telegraphed secret which was apparently tag-conflated with a lot of the basic structure of the rest of the map--all sorts of HOMs/Medusas immediately ensued, and it seems that a mechanism important to progression later on was broken as a result, rendering the map uncompletable (note that this was on complevel 2). Hard to describe exactly what happened in a few words, but the demo should make it clear.

Of these first 5, I found map 01 and map 04 the stronger. Map 02 was held back by dubious virtue of being a textbook early-effort map, while map 03 was too tiny/miserly with space to really spread its wings (although it is a good example of a polished-up novice map). The layout in map 05 actually looked the best of the five, but of course I can't really comment on that one after just this first play.

Stygian said:

MAP12:[/b]
Near the beginning of the map, a single imp appears to be partly stuck inside of something, giving the impression that it is dancing. Red and blue doors give little-to-no visual indication that they require a key to be opened (the blue door has horizontal blue lights on the ground, but they are easily missed). In the hallways surrounding the "atrium" area with trees inside of it, there are corners with ledges which emit light for no apparent reason. Were these supposed to have lamps on them? My guess would be yes. This level was fun to play and I thought the false exits were amusing (although, I'm not overly-fond of being cornered in a dark room by a gang of revenants).

http://i.imgur.com/JlDG8Nj.png

Yes, there is supposed to be lamps on there, where did they vanish to?

Demon of the Well said:
Map 05 - Neat BGM, sounded very familiar somehow, like it might be a rendition of a song I've heard somewhere else. But, to the point: this map malfunctioned catastrophically just a minute or two in, when I triggered an impact wall trying to get into a highly-telegraphed secret which was apparently tag-conflated with a lot of the basic structure of the rest of the map--all sorts of HOMs/Medusas immediately ensued, and it seems that a mechanism important to progression later on was broken as a result, rendering the map uncompletable (note that this was on complevel 2). Hard to describe exactly what happened in a few words, but the demo should make it clear.

Sounds like a TAG 0 error. I can't play the demo on Zandronum but I think I know which secret you are talking about (the shoot-wall secret where you fire the door through the window to gain access?). I'll see if it can be fixed up.

Oh, and the soundtrack for the map is a midi version of 'She Is My Sin' by Nightwish, one of my favourite bands.

@mrthejoshmon - Maybe the lamps are only flagged to appear at certain difficulty levels?

mrthejoshmon said:

Yes, there is supposed to be lamps on there, where did they vanish to?

They're marked as only in Hard skill.

Demon of the Well said:

I'd like to play, too, not like Doom.wad for DWMC takes long to get through. Interested to see what else was in the pack that Immundum was a part of, that map kicked all kinds of ass.

I have a feeling you're going to enjoy our MAP30 quintuple author effort ;)

Thanks for the feedback on the maps. The point you raise about MAP02 possibly being polished some more is a philosophically interesting one because it's unestablished if we're aiming for refined pieces or desiring to keeping the newbie heart intact with this release. MAPs 02, 03 and 05 have actually undergone revisions since their original conception, though these were due to the authors' own desires to spiffy up their pieces. There's things I think some of us could do to "modernize" the early maps but I feel in part that these would be like pulling the wool over the player's eyes and adding an addendum that reads: "NOVA: The Birth, a megawad of newbie mappers *if they had 2 years to work on the project with loads of criticism and additional retoolment by other mappers" (not that it isn't already mostly true). It's ultimately left to the authors for the significant changes, but little touches like putting block monster lines around the grates/cages in MAP01 so guns don't fly around are part of that internal debate that I think will go unsettled.