...solved - is no bug

first, sorry for my pronounciation



what happened:

I installed Zandronum, but not in Program Files, I decided to use my common folder "Ports", where all the ports are in.

Zandronum didn't make a subfolder, so I uninstalled it and... could see on my monitor how every subfolder so every port was deleted.

@all
if you don't use "program files" than first create a subfolder to install in

@developer
I think you know that you should fix this bug as quick as possible.
zan version downloaded some days ago, I have windows7

@moderator
this post can go to hell when the bug is fixed


ps: luckily I had everything (config-files etc) saved on my external hd.

And this is why installing multiple applications into the same folder is a BAD idea.

While that is indeed a bad idea, it sounds more like a lazily written installer script to me. Delete only individual files that belong to your application, and only delete folders if they are empty!

Absolutely. However, once such a mess has been created, relying on any automated uninstall script to sort it out is never going to work robustly, regardless of how well written it is. Certainly it should ensure to only remove the files created during the install but what happens in the situation where files for different applications use the same names/naming conventions? Or, how about an application that uses some of the folder contents as a "staging area" where the presence (or not) of a given file/folder structure has an effect on the application's operation.

Long story short: while better scripts can reduce the likelihood of a problem arising, the only robust approach is to simply not rely on their having been implemented "correctly".

Any installer has to before anything else, not damage the host system.
It is better for the deinstaller to quit than to take a risk.
Even if the deinstaller quits, at least if it has removed registry attachments, it has done its job. The user can remove any files.

The installer should have made a directory. The deinstaller should only delete directories that its own installer has made.
If it is only going to dump all the files at the target directory, then it does not own that directory and should not be deleting it.

Don't many installers create a list of the files and directories they created, and only delete those files upon deinstall.

The uninstaller has a "Remove all files in the Zandronum folder" check box (which should be off by default and at least on my system it is). If you manually check that box and then hit uninstall, it will do as instructed.

Did you check that box? If not and it still deleted all files in the directory, I agree that this is a terrible bug that needs to be fixed ASAP.

This was a feature Carnevil/Rivecoder left in the skulltag uninstaller. So far on the Zandronum forums, we have had only one incidence of this happening, and this incident was user error.

I will not rule out there being something possibly wrong with it. I've tested it on my own computer multiple times and it's always worked fine for me, but I can't test on every system. In addition I have no idea if it was also user error. If someone can get proof that it happens when unchecked... that would be even better.

For the next installer, we probably will just remove this checkbox because it seems like a pretty bad one anyways. Decided to keep it in there just because it was already in. Nothing from the compiled NSIS code was changed, so if there is some bug then it dates back to whenever Rivecoder (or whoever) made it.

yes I checked this box. In other words the Zandronum installer thought that my top directory named "ports" is his directory.

when I install the normal way it suggests c:\program files\zandronum, but I changed the directory to ...\doom\ports - the text field showing the installation path is very short so that you can't see the whole path. But I thought that the zandronum folder will be created within ...\ports\. It didn't.

Btw I know about this behavior during program installations, this time I just didn't checked it.

So I decided to deinstall and to install again for having a folder called zandronum. I have never before encountered that in such a case a programm deletes all folders even those, which do not belong to it.

Is that really a normal condition?

hope you understand

didy said:

So I decided to deinstall and to install again for having a folder called zandronum. I have never before encountered that in such a case a programm deletes all folders even those, which do not belong to it.

Is that really a normal condition?

It is. Because:

didy said:

yes I checked this box.

You asked it to do that, so it did.

I tested it again - same result.

Ok thanks Gez,
now I know why I allways take care when I (de)install a programm (this first time I didn't)

didy said:

when I install the normal way it suggests c:\program files\zandronum, but I changed the directory to ...\doom\ports - the text field showing the installation path is very short so that you can't see the whole path. But I thought that the zandronum folder will be created within ...\ports\. It didn't.

That's a common installer issue when you change the install path. Usual solution is to edit the new path before clicking Install, adding the folder name you wish to install to. The installer will probably display a "Folder ...\ports\zandronum doesn't exist. Do you want to create it?" warning message, which is OK, since that's what we want it do.

Gez said:

You asked it to do that, so it did.

Why is there such an option in the first place? Normally it should only delete the extra configuration files, which are also identifiable by some criteria.

Reminds me of Sierra's Half-Life uninstaller, wiping out everything in the directory above it.

printz said:

Why is there such an option in the first place? Normally it should only delete the extra configuration files, which are also identifiable by some criteria.

A lot of stuff may accumulate in the Zandronum directory (config files, save games, downloaded wads, screen shots, logs files, crash dumps, etc.). The installer gives the user a convenient option to wipe everything. The option is disabled by default for a reason, but if the user explicitly wants everything to be wiped, why don't offer the option?

Platinum Shell said:

Reminds me of Sierra's Half-Life uninstaller, wiping out everything in the directory above it.

The big difference is that this was an incredible bug in the Sierra's uninstaller, while Zandronum's uninstaller just does what it was explicitly instructed by the user to do.

GreyGhost said:

That's a common installer issue when you change the install path. Usual solution is to edit the new path before clicking Install, adding the folder name you wish to install to. The installer will probably display a "Folder ...\ports\zandronum doesn't exist. Do you want to create it?" warning message, which is OK, since that's what we want it do.

In earlier days yes, but today this shouldn't be an issue anymore:
- giving the suggested name of the folder (mostly the name of the program) in the install-path even when changing the directory (which is already common these days, afaik)
- if not, than giving a warning
- remembering the already existing folders (files) in the directory before the installation by writing a log file and further more conrolling new files/folders created - this one is more complex but gives additional savety
- simply making the textfield showing the install-path wider/longer

Developers should also think about that there will always be new/inexperienced users to computers.

Anyway, zandronum is cool!

Torr_Samaho said:

The big difference is that this was an incredible bug in the Sierra's uninstaller, while Zandronum's uninstaller just does what it was explicitly instructed by the user to do.

I know. I'm just saying what it reminded me of.

If it had created its own directory there would be no confusion about what was the zandorum directory, so it could delete the whole thing.

When it does not do that, there are several interpretations available to the user who encounters this button.
1. It does not have its own directory so it can't delete everything in it.
2. It has a zandorum directory somewhere I cannot see, and it is going to delete that, and all its contents.
3. The most pessimistic assumptions, and because I cannot see the zandorum directory it could be anything and everything gets deleted.

Leaving such things subject to user confusion is asking for trouble.

If zandorum had been installed to the Programs directory, does that make Programs the zandorum install directory, so that zandorum would be correct in deleting all the content of Programs ?

Don't give the user options that destroy their system.
They can always delete stuff like that by hand. It is easy to delete leftovers in the install directory. That is not a really important thing.