Favourite port [console version] of Doom?

For me it used to be Legacy.

Then Legacy died.

Now I do most of my stuff in GZDooM.

Boingo said:

For me it used to be Legacy.

Then Legacy died.

Now I do most of my stuff in GZDooM.

Console ports, not source ports.

Can we discount SNES Doom and GBA Doom 2 as ports? While they may have tried to recreate the original experience by using the same assets, their new engines completely change the feel.

Jaguar Doom and derivatives do have slightly different gameplay (minor speed differences on moving sectors, different damage calculation), but it was still very close to the PC gameplay. SNES Doom plays by totally different rules, not just tweaked ones.

Generally everything about the combat feels totally different, and not nearly as fun or fluid. SNES Doom is more clunky and unforgiving, and a bit more pop-n-stop given how quickly enemies can kill you with a brutal shower of constant hitscan attacks.

And what exactly is notable about its music? Sure, it's better than the 32X version's ridiculous lack of effort, but it sounds like I'm underwater. It's just so muddy, the guitars sound like orchestral strings (unless that was deliberate, in which case, why?).

I don't even consider it a technical achievement. The SuperFX chip granted them a lot of number crunching power. They threw brute-force processing at the problem, you can do that on anything sufficiently powerful enough. I'm sure they optimized it very well and put some good work into it, but they had plenty of more power than normal at their disposal. It's really not that notable.

SNES was already on its way out to make room for the N64, its version of Doom was just a novelty. And I'm not insulting anyone that likes it, I just don't think it's very good even on its own merits.

SNES Doom was the first version I played when I discovered Doom in 2006 (was hearing about some great classic for a while, decided to go check it out), I'm glad I quickly learned of the PC version. Christ, I've wasted 8 years of my life on this game.

Patrol1985 said:

Using the occasion I'd like to confess that I haven't played Doom64 yet. Assuming I'd like to experience it as it was originally meant to is Doom64 EX a good choice? Is it as close to the console version as, say, chocolate doom is to DOS ones? Or should I get an emulator?

As close to the original as Chocolate Doom? Hm.... Well, almost. Savegames are compatible between vanilla Doom and Chocolate Doom, and similarly, passwords you get from the original N64 version of Doom 64 work in Doom 64 EX. Still, rarely have I seen a port as perfect as Chocolate Doom, so I can't say EX is as good. The biggest issue currently, in my personal experience, is some music defects. Nothing totally broken, but some tracks don't sound exactly like the N64 originals. There's minor hit detection issues, too, like bodies seemingly not getting caught and crushed by doors when they should. But those are pretty minor when considering the overall package. For the most part, it's incredibly authentic to the original game.

Honestly, you should try EX. I actually prefer it over the original game for one reason: mouse control. The original controls via the N64 controller are simply too sluggish, and turn speed seems to be genuinely random: sometimes you turn pretty quick, and other times, stuff is shredding your back apart as you're waiting and waiting for the camera to pan over to the monster behind you. That's not an issue in EX.

SNES Doom was my first experience with Doom, as well. In some crude way, I felt the SNES port enhanced the "survival horror" feel of Doom, with your slower, less maneuverable DoomGuy having to face his opponents head-on (quite literally, since they only had forward-facing sprites) instead of nimbly dancing around them. And the arranged music was so good, I actually have the SNES Doom soundtrack autoloaded in ZDoom to replace the stock Doom 1 MIDIs. (It's a shame the soundtrack is incomplete. If only someone could remake the missing songs with the SNES instrument samples!)

I hated the first GBA Doom with a passion, though. Framerate was all over the place, randomly going from underwater-slow to actually too fast. Music was utterly butchered, not only sounding generally awful but not even placed in the correct maps. There was sector lighting, but all the sprites were fullbright all the time, so it didn't really make any difference. And not having anything tougher than barons to fight was lame; even SNES Doom had the cyberdemon and spiderdemon. And did they have to use the hacked-up Jaguar Doom mapset again?

Hectic said:

I'm also fond of the iPod port of Doom, specially earlier versions before a recent update.

I use a port of Doom for the iPod to, of sorts. It costs a dollar and you can run custom .wads on it. It's really cool. I think it was called Gameception.

Okay, I can officially say (while SNES is nice for nostalgia), I've fallen in love with the PSX version.

Bobby's music may be iconic - but Aubrey's ambient sounds are EXACTLY what this game needed. The PSX version is the only version of the original game I've played where the mood is *perfect*.

Megamur said:

The biggest issue currently, in my personal experience, is some music defects. Nothing totally broken, but some tracks don't sound exactly like the N64 originals. There's minor hit detection issues, too, like bodies seemingly not getting caught and crushed by doors when they should. But those are pretty minor when considering the overall package. For the most part, it's incredibly authentic to the original game.

Only because the Williams/Midway N64 music driver code is buggy as fuck. Doom 64 EX plays what's written in the MIDI data. N64 plays glitches.

I don't really care for most of the ports really. PSX Doom is great but it feels more like a remake/re-imagining of the PC version than a port due to its different atmosphere, levels and what not, and Doom 64 is of course a completely brand new installment in the franchise.

Jaguar Doom is decent at best, everything else is below average and not worth playing.

Also, I'd have to agree with Sodaholic. I fail to see why the SNES version's music is so highly praised. Yes, 32x Doom's music sounded like ass and the instruments were poorly chosen, but at least the compositions were consistent and stayed true to how the original MIDIs played.

The SNES port's sound driver is buggy as hell and the instruments constantly keep cutting out every time a sound effect is played. And don't even get me started on how low quality the instrument samples are, the guitars sound like fucking violins.

The only rendition I really liked was Nobody told me about id and that was because of the tempo increasing when the drums kick in and the little solo they added in the middle. (Of course that was only because they needed to get rid of the square waves in favor of the hi-hat cymbal.)

From my experience:

SNES version feels totally different. Would only use it as a Dooming-of-last-resort.

Jaguar and 32X: leaving sound/music problems aside, they do look pretty PC-ey in appearance, but "cut down" to fit on more limited platforms. Much closer to the "real" Doom than SNES, but they are not offering something extra for the player to cling to. They, along with the 3DO, feel much like a "Doom: minimum common denominator version".

Playstation: OK, this one is a whole other experience. It's like having the feeling of a modern OpenGL source port but in 1996. Of course it has been cut down a bit in places, but the new visual and sound effects along with the creepy music and the subtly different levels (along with the increased challenge in Ultimate Doom) make it stand out from all other powers, at least until Doom64 came out, which was like PSX Doom squared and cubed. If you want to dedicate yourself to a console version of Doom, that's the best one IMO, in terms of replay value, atmosphere, and ease of finding real hardware and discs for it, if you want to try it on the real deal.

The only problem common with ALL console source ports is, however, the controls. Forget the super-efficient keyboard+mouse controls that allow speedrunners to do incredible things like SR50, circle-strafing and stopping on a dime, forget even whatever pure keyboarding proficiency you might have had. A gamepad requires pretty much a muscle memory "physiotherapy" to acquire anything close to even basic keyboarding movement fludity. IMO, this calls for a totally different pacing of the game, requiring a more "horror-survival" approach. You can't just dash into a room, guns-a-blazin' and expect to be able to dodge fireballs with pixel-precision with a gamepad as easily as you can with WASD+mouse or even plain old keyboard. If you accept this as a matter of course for console versions, then you can truly enjoy them to their fullest.

Maes said:

The only problem common with ALL console source ports is, however, the controls. Forget the super-efficient keyboard+mouse controls that allow speedrunners to do incredible things like SR50, circle-strafing and stopping on a dime, forget even whatever pure keyboarding proficiency you might have had. A gamepad requires pretty much a muscle memory "physiotherapy" to acquire anything close to even basic keyboarding movement fludity. IMO, this calls for a totally different pacing of the game, requiring a more "horror-survival" approach. You can't just dash into a room, guns-a-blazin' and expect to be able to dodge fireballs with pixel-precision with a gamepad as easily as you can with WASD+mouse or even plain old keyboard. If you accept this as a matter of course for console versions, then you can truly enjoy them to their fullest.

As I mentioned over IM when you told me you got the PSX version, I never actually had a problem with the controls. As you mention, it requires muscle memory, but I've been playing console games since I was a kid (though I've mostly been a PC gamer for about 7 years now). I can still run in guns blazing in the PSX version. So long as it has the same digital controls of turning, moving forward/backward and strafing, I find it just as proficient as keyboarding, if not more so because of my muscle memory.

As long as a given port allows for circle strafing and generally doesn't lack any important inputs from the PC version, I don't think it's a fair criticism to knock the controls. I suppose you could argue that digital only is a limitation worth criticizing, and you'd be right, but Doom was designed to be perfectly playable with digital, even though it's even more playable with analog movement and turning.

PSX Final Doom added support for mice, though you still can't circle strafe in analog due to only having two and not three axes to work with.

While analog controls would be nice for turning, that's not my main gripe with gamepad controls in FPS in general. I also didn't say that you can't do some things, but you can't do them easily or quickly enough to be as competitive as you can with keyboard or mouse + keyboard (NOT plain mouse, which has a lot of limitations). My main complaints are that, with a gamepad:

1. One of the most important controls in Doom (direction) is crammed on the small D-pad which you can only control with your left hand's thumb, which is usually not the good one for most of the population (right handed). At least in pure keyboard vanilla controls, this is on your right hand, and spread between 3 fingers, not just one.
   
2. Switching between turning and strafing is slow and clumsy, mainly because the strafe key is under rather than near the fire key by default (but this might be configurable)
   
3. The shoulder pads for strafing are nearly impossible to coordinate, and cannot be used at the same time with the gamepad, as e.g. strafe modifiers.
   

Like it or not, a gamepad is not the optimal control for a fast-paced FPS, also due to human physiology/ergonomic reasons. All the above together result in a clumsy control scheme, which introduces a handicap to playing, which no amount of training can remove. It's not enough to map every possible control on the gamepad, it must also be ergonomically usable and competitive with other control schemes, I cannot stress that enough. If I have to become a contorsionist to master a controller, then I'll pass.

I don't know how the PSX mouse is supposed to operate with Final Doom, but unless you can combine it with WASD-like controls, it'll be probably an even worse handicap (like playing PC Doom with pure mouse controls, where you have to press a mouse button to walk).

Of course, handicap is relative to the best known control scheme for a FPS, which is, of course, WASD + mouse, until someone proves otherwise by trashing (or even just matching) an equally-skilled rival in DM using nothing but a gamepad.

Let's ask it to you straight: could a gamepad user even hope to beat a keyboarder in a DM, at skill level parity? And even if the gamepadder is the top of the top in his league, could he ever compete with the top of the top keyboarder or mouse + WASDer? Playing Doom with anythin other than mouse + WASD is a handicap, and the fact that none risks using anything else in DM is a testament to how good a control scheme it is. And since human opponents are much harder to kill than monsters, the above also applies to single player.

The above being said, I reiterate my proposal/challenge for organizing a "keyboarders DM league" and a "gamepadders DM league", and have the best of either team being pitted against barely average WASD+mouse DMers. Guess where I'd put my money ;-)

ITT: Maes subtly confesses to a pathological dislike of control pads in FPS games.

Maes said:

Switching between turning and strafing is slow and clumsy, mainly because the strafe key is under rather than near the fire key by default (but this might be configurable). The shoulder pads for strafing are nearly impossible to coordinate, and cannot be used at the same time with the gamepad, as e.g. strafe modifiers.

What? We're still talking about console ports, right? Well then this is complete and utter bollocks, Maes. You can perform any and all regular strafe actions easily and comfortably in PlayStation Doom using the L1/R1 shoulder buttons, and it takes nothing close to being a contortionist in order to do so in combination with d-pad commands either. It's obviously not going to be as precise as it would be with WASD/Mouse, but with Doom's clumsy monster movement/AI it really doesn't need to be on the game's stock maps.

I'll freely admit that, as far as playing on PC goes, a KB+M setup is objectively superior (and I certainly prefer it too), but to rag on certain controller setups like this only tells me that you're probably not much good with a control pad -- so really, maybe it's you & not the control scheme that's slow and clumsy? ;)

For the systems that had no alternative, in cases such as the PlayStation, the control pad was a more than good enough way to play the game competently and comfortably.

Let's ask it to you straight: could a gamepad user even hope to beat a keyboarder in a DM, at skill level parity? And even if the gamepadder is the top of the top in his league, could he ever compete with the top of the top keyboarder or mouse + WASDer? Playing Doom with anythin other than mouse + WASD is a handicap, and the fact that none risks using anything else in DM is a testament to how good a control scheme it is. And since human opponents are much harder to kill than monsters, the above also applies to single player.

This is all so screamingly irrelevant that I don't know why it's even here. Nobody's saying that control pad schemes are better than KB+M configs for competition, they're just saying that in some cases they don't completely suck balls for the system that they're on.

Well well, looks like I struck an exposed nerve here, another of Doomworlds dirty little cans of worms nobody wants to talk about. ;-)

And since a man's troll is another man's gadfly, take a deep breath...and here we go :-)

BaronOfStuff should have said:

ITT: Maes unambiguously exposes the inherent inferiority of control pads in FPS games. All Heil Maes!

FTFY

BaronOfStuff should have said:

You can perform any and all regular strafe actions easily and comfortably in PlayStation Doom using the L1/R1 shoulder buttons, and it takes nothing close to being a contortionist in order to do so in combination with d-pad commands either.

You cannot use the d-pad while using the shoulder buttons for strafing, which renders them moot. You cannot, for example, move forward AND strafe with the shoulder buttons. Using them will cause Doomguy to stop on a dime.

BaronOfStuff should have said:

It's obviously not going to be as precise as it would be with WASD/Mouse, but with Doom's clumsy monster movement/AI it really doesn't need to be on the game's stock maps.

A-ha! So you do admit that it's a compromise, but one that you can live with. Well, different strokes for different folks I suppose.

BaronOfStuff should have said:

For the systems that had no alternative, in cases such as the PlayStation, the control pad was a more than good enough way to play the game competently and comfortably.

That doesn't mean that one has to accept it without the "right" of criticizing it now, does it?

BaronOfStuff should have said:

Nobody's saying that control pad schemes are better than KB+M configs for competition, they're just saying that in some cases they don't completely suck balls for the system that they're on.

Again, not my fault if some people are easier to please and accept a suboptimal compromise silently.

Maes said:

You cannot use the d-pad while using the shoulder buttons for strafing, which renders them moot. You cannot, for example, move forward AND strafe with the shoulder buttons. Using them will cause Doomguy to stop on a dime.

Huh? Yes you can. Is your PSX controller broken? The only versions of Doom that have mobility problems when strafing are the SNES, Jaguar, 32X and 3DO versions, and that only blocks turning, not forward/backward movement.

Sodaholic said:

Huh? Yes you can. Is your PSX controller broken? The only versions of Doom that have mobility problems when strafing are the SNES, Jaguar, 32X and 3DO versions, and that only blocks turning, not forward/backward movement.

I'll check again and tell you, but I got the distinct feel that pressing either shoulder button caused at least rotational input (L+R on the gamepad) to be lost.

I think the PSX Doom is better port, when I was growing up my household was too cheap for a PC so this is the only way I even knew of Doom.

And so when I found out about the PC version, the original...I loved it. But I missed the new sounds, music and coloured lighting of the PSX port.

It felt slower paced and more creepy stalky than the PC version, which I also did like.

I dunno about the control issues, as far as I remember you were able to move fluidly and strafe around effortlessly while using the d-pad.

More so this day and age I am using a port of the Playstation Doom to PC to play it. But still, I don't remember any control problems from the original port other than the game moved a lot slower.

I haven't played too many Doom ports, I played the SNES one ages ago at a friends house and thought it wasn't too swanky....but you know, they tried. Not played the Jaguar or 3DO port at all..or even the GBA ones.