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garrettlynch

Shadows - what causes them?

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Hi

What's the cause of what appear to be shadows on textures? For example here I have a screenshot of a corner between two walls with textures that are pure white:

http://www.asquare.org/in-progress/shadows.png

Setting the lighting to 255 doesn't get rid of the shading. Is it something to do with the linedef's and if so is there a solution/linedef type that gets rid of them?

thanks
Garrett

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Have you tried 256? Actually 256 is the maximum brightness level, not 255. It's a mistake in many doom editors.

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From your screenshot, it appears that you're using Doomsday Engine (or possibly Risen3D, which is based on a version of it). The edge shadowing you're seeing is an optional feature in Doomsday called "fake radiosity". It's been a while since I last used Doomsday, but I recall there being a menu option to adjust or disable it.

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Memfis said:

Have you tried 256? Actually 256 is the maximum brightness level, not 255. It's a mistake in many doom editors.


There are 256 light levels, but they range from 0 to 255. This is my understanding. I'm willing to be proven wrong.

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The game is actually able to handle light level values far above 256. But there's no overbrightness (contrarily to software-rendered Quake) so there's no real difference between 255 and any larger value (except for the timing of pulsing light effects).

In Hexen map format, light level is stored on a single byte, so the maximum value is 255.

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In vanilla, 255 is actually treated as identical to 240, in the same way that 143 is treated as identical to 128, and so on. Some ports will draw in-between lighting levels with more precision, but for vanilla it's just rounded down to a multiple of 16.

The idea of 255 being fullbright is a misconception that was passed down from the IWAD maps, and it sticks around because it's typically defined as the brightest light level in map editors, and because you can't really tell the difference in most circumstances anyway.

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esselfortium said:

From your screenshot, it appears that you're using Doomsday Engine (or possibly Risen3D, which is based on a version of it).


Doomsday has the fake radiosity feature but Risen3D does not.

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To enable/disable fake radiosity in Doomsday, open the console and type 'rend-fakeradio 0/1'. The console command 'rend-fakeradio-darkness' can also be used to adjust it's strength.

Alternatively, you'll find menu options for both in the renderer appearance menu under the shadows drop down menu, where it is referred to as 'ambient occlusion'.

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hi

esselfortium said:

From your screenshot, it appears that you're using Doomsday Engine. The edge shadowing you're seeing is an optional feature in Doomsday called "fake radiosity".


ah yes I am using Doomsday. I didn't think this would be the engine.

Vermil said:

To enable/disable fake radiosity in Doomsday, open the console and type 'rend-fakeradio 0/1'. The console command 'rend-fakeradio-darkness' can also be used to adjust it's strength.

Alternatively, you'll find menu options for both in the renderer appearance menu under the shadows drop down menu, where it is referred to as 'ambient occlusion'.


I tried rend-fakeradio 0 in the console and it says it's not a valid. Also can't find the command listed here (http://dengine.net/dew/index.php?title=Console_command_reference). Also tried rendedit and nothing - perhaps the osx version of Doomsday has fewer options?

Where is the "renderer appearance menu under the shadows drop down menu"? - I can't see anything like thisunless its what rendedit is supposed to bring up.

thanks.
Garrett

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Indeed, I do use Windows, but I imagine the console/taskbar is the same in all OS. I'm also assuming a recent version of Doomsday.

By default, one can bring up the console/taskbar by pressing '`'. One can also open the game menu, press options and then 'show taskbar'.

With the console/taskbar open, you can type 'rend-fakeradio 0' in to it (you may have to use your mouse to highlight the box you type into).

To access the 'renderer appearance menu', one can type 'rendedit' into the console/taskbar.

Or one can click on the wheel button in the bottom right corner of the console/taskbar. Then select 'renderer' from the popup menu. Then click on wheel next to the 'appearance field' and select edit from the drop down menu.

The ability to edit a renderer profile will only be available if you have a non-inbuilt appearance profile selected; the inbuilt ones will have 'inbuilt' in their title.

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You know, part of what made Doom scary in the first place was the fact that the light dimmed the farther back you looked. You sure you want to get rid of the atmosphere?

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Hi

Vermil said:

Indeed, I do use Windows, but I imagine the console/taskbar is the same in all OS. I'm also assuming a recent version of Doomsday


Doomsday Shell 1.13.2
Doomsday Snowberry 1.6

Vermil said:

By default, one can bring up the console/taskbar by pressing '`'. One can also open the game menu, press options and then 'show taskbar'.


That does not work and I can't see any options, game menu or show taskbar anywhere.

Vermil said:

With the console/taskbar open, you can type 'rend-fakeradio 0' in to it (you may have to use your mouse to highlight the box you type into).

To access the 'renderer appearance menu', one can type 'rendedit' into the console/taskbar.


Launching the console on osx (a seperate app) I've tried both of these and both come back as invalid commands. For example:

rendedit: unknown identifier

Vermil said:

Or one can click on the wheel button in the bottom right corner of the console/taskbar. Then select 'renderer' from the popup menu. Then click on wheel next to the 'appearance field' and select edit from the drop down menu.


There is no wheel button. This is what I can see in the frontend and shell:

http://www.asquare.org/in-progress/doomsday.png

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Ah.

Snowberry and the Doomsday Shell are two separate programs included with Doomsday Engine and aren't Doomsday Engine itself or required for Doomsday Engine to function.

Snowberry is simply a GUI for launching Doomsday.exe with command line options of your choice. While the Shell is a separate program for hosting multiplayer games (which Doomsday Engine itself can then join as a client.

You need to launch Doomsday Engine itself; either through the play button in the Snowberry launcher or by launching Doomsday.exe directly.

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Vermil said:

Ah.

Snowberry and the Doomsday Shell are two separate programs included with Doomsday Engine and aren't Doomsday Engine itself or required for Doomsday Engine to function.

Snowberry is simply a GUI for launching Doomsday.exe with command line options of your choice. While the Shell is a separate program for hosting multiplayer games (which Doomsday Engine itself can then join as a client.

You need to launch Doomsday Engine itself; either through the play button in the Snowberry launcher or by launching Doomsday.exe directly.


ahhhhhh brilliant
http://www.asquare.org/in-progress/shadows1.png

didn't know any of those menus existed - wow Doomsday works on an Occulus Rift! I've got it sorted now as you can see in the image. Many thanks for your help, I wouldn't have ever found that menu I think.

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You are not alone. We've had numerous reports about/from users who've simply never encountered Doomsday's taskbar and so consequently overlook the majority of the features primarily accessed through it. For 1.14 we are introducing a built in UI tutorial/walkthrough intended to introduce users to some of the more important aspects, including the taskbar.

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DaniJ said:

You are not alone. We've had numerous reports about/from users who've simply never encountered Doomsday's taskbar and so consequently overlook the majority of the features primarily accessed through it. For 1.14 we are introducing a built in UI tutorial/walkthrough intended to introduce users to some of the more important aspects, including the taskbar.


That would be good to see, it doesn't need anything overly complex like video tutorials - all it took me was those last two posts by Vermil and suddenly it was clear.

Great work on Doomsday by the way, very impressed with how much it does, how simply and across platforms.

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Yeah its a pretty simple three step tutorial that simply draws the users attention to the taskbar and then points out some of the more important concepts (it has clickable buttons, a command line, etc...). No videos or anything like that. The UI components are used to introduce the UI itself (heh).

Glad you like it :)

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