Reasons not to tip

I'm an avid supporter of tipping. I believe that the more a particular region is known to tip, the better that region's service will be. It's not "wasted money" either. If a region normally tips 25%, the restaurants can't just "pocket" that 25% because they're in a struggle for survival just like anyone else. As a result, a region that tips very well will have lower menu prices than they would otherwise have. This puts the power directly in the hands of customers to "compensate" themselves for a poor experience by not leaving a tip.

Because I understand this system, I tip in the following way:

25% - Your service made me happy.
20% - You did your job, your service met my expectations.
15% - You might have made one or two minor mistakes, but it didn't spoil my night.
0% - You did something to make me unhappy.

I leave a 0% tip about one out of every five visits. Here are examples of what would cause them to lose my tip:

- Taking 15 minutes to show up and take my order.
- Thunking a plate down on the table and walking off.
- Getting the order wrong.
- Serving a warm beer and then offering to put it in the freezer for a few minutes. In this case, I actually left no tip AND I demanded they remove the beer from my bill, which they agreed to do.

I'm prepared to hear a flurry of disagreeing attitudes on tipping.

Sounds like a reasonable system. Of course I'm a cheapass ad I don't get out much, so what I say and what I do are 2 completely different things when it comes to tipping.

I always leave some amount, 15% being the starting point for OK service. Leaving NO tip may be misconstrued; it could just as easily mean that you're a forgetful idiot or a skinflint.

The proper tip to express horrible service is two cents.

what's the point of having lower prices if you have to give tips in order to have them? might as well just have higher prices but without tipping, same deal lol.

Memfis said:

what's the point of having lower prices if you have to give tips in order to have them? might as well just have higher prices but without tipping, same deal lol.

Think it means more power to the customer; if they receive crappy services and food, they don't deserve the 'total high price'.

Tipping isn't a big thing in Australia, probably because the wages are more decent and food is already expensive as it is.

I thought the tip goes towards the worker rather than the business.

I think instead of tipping, the employers should just pay waiters/waitresses what they deserve upfront. Customers do not know what's going in everywhere in the restaurant, they do not know why food arrived late, they do not know the workload that is put upon the staff, so they should not be an authority on how much somebody deserves to be paid. That should be left up to the person running the restaurant, and only them. If somebody is considered not to be doing a good job, they should simply be fired or talked to to improve their performance.

Wagi said:

I think instead of tipping, the employers should just pay waiters/waitresses what they deserve upfront.

Ha ha! You *do* realize you're talking about an industry that's fighting to eliminate the minimum wage by bankrolling institutes that produce research showing that a minimum wage is bad? If they could get away with paying their employess nothing, they would.

After spending years working minimum wage, I am convinced that "Minimum Wage" translates to "If we could pay you less, we would"

Mr. Freeze said:

After spending years working minimum wage, I am convinced that "Minimum Wage" translates to "If we could pay you less, we would"

It took me only weeks to get that feeling. Shitty fast food joint I worked at got closed down, worked night shift afterward at a grocery store with a skeleton crew and a pissy supervisor, got canned on day 89 of my 90 day probation because I wasn't inhumanly fast enough (apparently they don't care to just hire more people), and I've been unemployed ever since. Living with my parents sucks. Still haven't managed to land even so much as an interview yet.

I wonder, if I lived in Australia, would things be any better for me? Of course, immigration is tight, the current PM doesn't seem to keen on it, and I don't have any skills or post secondary education yet. Akron is a shithole with nothing but rotting abandoned warehouses and other industrial waste. That and meth addicted hobos.

I'm fucked.

I remember my uncle once told me that giving a one cent tip was supposed to be a compliment. So I tried it out when I went out one night. So I left a cent at the table and when I was about to walk out I heard a voice say "Only a cent!?" I then ran straight towards my car hoping the waiter wasn't going to come after me.

I don't see why tipping is seen as necessary to ensure good service. In virtually any other job, keeping your job is the incentive to doing your job well. Why is it seen differently in the service industry? Don't get me wrong, I don't think service industry workers should be paid less. In fact, I honestly think they might deserve more than they currently get because of people who skip out on tips, not because of bad service, but because they're tightasses, and there's no real consequence to the costumer for tipping poorly (sure, maybe if you go to the same place often enough and get the same staff often enough, but if you only go out once in a blue moon, it's not like there's a system in place to punish you for tipping badly).

I say raise the wages to include what they currently get with tips on average, and eliminate tipping entirely. If the service is poor, people can complain to the manager. It's not like, "Oh, if we do away with tipping, we'll have no idea how to reward staff who do a good job and punish staff who do a lousy job." Yeah, it may raise food prices somewhat, but if you're already tipping, it won't really make a difference to trade your tip for a small increase in your bill.

Honestly, I almost suspect tipping is condoned precisely because people can skip out on the tip with no real consequence. And restaurant managers are fine with that, because it's not their problem and they can still pay below minimum wage. And let me make it clear - just because I'm anti-tip does not mean that I myself don't tip. I virtually always tip 20% or more. I don't punish the wait staff for a corrupt system, but I do believe the system is corrupt and needs to be fixed. I don't care if it means an increase in my meal prices, I'm willing to pay it. I just don't get the mentality that there's just no other way to measure and reward/punish performance.

Necromancer-AMV said:

If they could get away with paying their employess nothing, they would.

If I could get away with paying my taxi driver nothing, I would. Equally valid point.

AndrewB said:

I believe

That's nice. Do you have any actual evidence to support your beliefs?

I mean your logic sounds reasonable enough but whether it actually works in practice is the important thing.

So it turns out that libertarians tip! They only do it if it conforms to an untested narrative about how it empowers the consumer in the free market, but still. More than I expected.

I like when my order gets screwed up. It means I'll get to have some genuine interactions with my waiter. Sometimes the mask slips and there's real concern, real apology, real cheer when everything is made right. This will usually get you a bigger tip from me than if everything had boringly been right the first time.

geekmarine said:

I say raise the wages to include what they currently get with tips on average, and eliminate tipping entirely. If the service is poor, people can complain to the manager. It's not like, "Oh, if we do away with tipping, we'll have no idea how to reward staff who do a good job and punish staff who do a lousy job." Yeah, it may raise food prices somewhat, but if you're already tipping, it won't really make a difference to trade your tip for a small increase in your bill.

I know this isn't exactly the same, but here some high-end (and not so high-end) restaurants already include the tip, and most of them let you choose from 5% to around 20%, but I don't remember ever seeing an option to not tip at all (I really don't go to restaurants that much, and in the few dozen I've visited, I've never had a really bad service, so I always leave a tip, even if it's only 10%, meaning the service wasn't bad, but neither remarkable).

I find the restaurants most likely to have terrible service are the ones that do dastardly things like pool the tips and split them evenly. If I can see it's just my waiter being an ass and talking on his phone then I still give the tip, but do something mean like load it mostly with nickels and dimes.

Screwed-up beer orders are the best. Restaurants seem to like letting me keep the wrong beer while they go find the correct one.

fraggle said:

That's nice. Do you have any actual evidence to support your beliefs?

I supported my beliefs with reasoning. You didn't support your beliefs with anything. You didn't even state your beliefs at all. But thank you for your otherwise valuable contribution to the discussion.

Creaphis said:

I like when my order gets screwed up. It means I'll get to have some genuine interactions with my waiter. Sometimes the mask slips and there's real concern, real apology, real cheer when everything is made right. This will usually get you a bigger tip from me than if everything had boringly been right the first time.

you seem like quite a genuinely nice person. I like you

I thought tipping is just 10%, people seem to pay just that around here. Anyway, I usually pay it, with little variance, just to feel safe. I don't really understand all this tipping logic (why not just inflate the bills) but apparently it's a must-do :/

Typically I tip 10% if everything is OK and nothing if the service is poor. 10% is about average where I live. I've occasionally tipped above 10% if the service notably exceeds the cost.

EDIT: I also believe service industry workers should be paid what good service is worth (or excellent service depending on the establishments target market) and tips should be abolished. I'd be fine if meal prices went up by 20% to reflect this. If the consumer is dissatisfied they have the option of complaint, not going back again or refusing to pay at all if it's abysmal service. There's still the incentive for the company to provide good service.

Sodaholic said:

I wonder, if I lived in Australia, would things be any better for me? Of course, immigration is tight, the current PM doesn't seem to keen on it, and I don't have any skills or post secondary education yet. Akron is a shithole with nothing but rotting abandoned warehouses and other industrial waste. That and meth addicted hobos.

I'm fucked.

Are you brown and fleeing persecution by boat? If not, boogie on in. At the moment, I would recommend working here over the US at least. Here you only need to do one awful low wage job to live from pay-check to pay-check as opposed to two or three.

I do tip and pretty much all the time. It would a lot to push me to the point where I wouldn't and thankfully it has not happened to much. Also, I really wouldn't deny a tip if my order was some how messed up. One, the vast majority of the time it is a simple fix. Two, after working in a kitchen for a few years I know how easy it is to screw up an order when a place is busy. 3, we are all human and things do happen. If the worst thing that happens to you in a day is getting having your order messed up. You are doing pretty good. Getting bent out of shape over something so small and fixable is stupid.

Mr. Freeze said:

After spending years working minimum wage, I am convinced that "Minimum Wage" translates to "If we could pay you less, we would"

Minimum wage is only part of the problem. A large factor is how stupidly high tax's are.

Well here in Australia we don't tip, I would feel weird doing it. I think it's just better for your employer to give you a decent wage in the first place.

I always tip roughly 20%, maybe a little extra, maybe a little less depending on the service. I'm bad at math, so I round up when I'm paying with debit to get an even number, and get a bit generous when paying with cash (like throwing down $3 for a $10 meal.

I've never been in a situation where I felt like giving a small or no tip, but for one thing I usually just eat at places I know have good service. For another thing, I used to work at a restaurant I know the shit that goes down behind the scenes. Delays in service are sometimes not the server's fault, nor are wrong orders. All kinds of disasters can go on behind the scenes. Bad service, in my opinion, is basically a bad attitude or neglectfulness, which I've seen from time to time.

I think the tip system is pretty retarded, though. It's not really an incentive to provide good service, but rather the opposite. Any good server worth their salt is going to give it their all no matter what, but I've seen some do their best for a table without complications and they STILL get stiffed on the tip because their customer doesn't believe in tips or some bullshit. I've seen this literally end in tears, and it usually throws the server off their game for the rest of the night.

So yeah, tip your goddamn servers when you dine out, or don't dine out at all.

AndrewB said:

Reasons not to tip

One good reason is going out in a country where tipping isn't a thing. :P

My stepdad's 93 year old aunt always said $1 per customer as a tip no matter what. As I get older, I feel its more accurate.

My gf and I eat out at restaurants A LOT. Far too much. I've started writing exact reasons why I'm tipping. Like I wanted water refills or you're a nice server to be around.

I've been out with a friend that didn't leave a tip. The owner made her explain why she didn't leave a tip to her waiter. It was a damn good reason. She has food allergies. Extreme allergies with cyliac disease. She asked the waiter does this have any of that in it? He said no. She got the food and her allergies started flaring. She asked, does it have any of that in it? Are you sure? No it doesn't. She had him go check. Yes its 100% full of what will kill you.

Ha I just realized for the first time ever I forgot my credit card at a restaurant last night. The bartender and not the waitress picked up the credit card. Time to cancel that shit.

AndrewB said:

I'm prepared to hear a flurry of disagreeing attitudes on tipping.

do you suspect someone from doomworld prepared your food? I'm having trouble figuring out what you have to gain considering that nothing in your post implies a question or in interest in other peoples opinions, unless they blindingly agree with you of course.