MAYhem2048! Now on idgames!

Simple, but nice: it's always a good idea to let the textures do the work for you. Good job so far. :)

Breezeep said:

a little more WIP (last post here for today)

Looks good, Breezeep. Keep going!

Whoops (fixed the blue bars) : https://www.mediafire.com/?wtoj451d8hp0vd4
Call this 'canyon village'.

joe-ilya said:

Whoops (fixed the blue bars) : https://www.mediafire.com/?wtoj451d8hp0vd4
Call this 'canyon village'.

I was curious, so I gave this a go. Utterly straightforward plasmagun shootage, however I can't say it was easy (later, I better cheated to run through). You've got a double Player1 start (voodoo doll) there, near the start but on a platform above, accessed later in the level. If I consider the character of your typical work (extreme linearity, narrow paths, shooting gallery, slow lifts, weird angles and texturing), this map didn't disappoint (=had these qualities), but wasn't that bad either, actually was quite interesting.

I've been recommended on my Plutonia livestream just now to keep an eye on this one as a potential future livestream project.

A double-size Claustrophobia 1024 size limitation community project sounds an interesting endeavour indeed, so I will indeed be keeping my eye on this one.

Cool project concept. :D Here's my map.

Download

Name: Unorthogon
Author: Jimmy
Build Time: 2 days
Music: MIDI rendition of "Premonition" from Fury³ by Jay Reichard (may change)

This map was my attempt to create a non-linear layout with as few doors and 90-degree angles as possible, which is largely outside of my normal style. I'm pretty happy with the result, though.

The map is pretty easy on HMP (probably MAP01 levels of easy, in fact) so I tried to make it quite a bit harder for UV. Hopefully it should all be balanced, though.

Comments, please! :)

Fantastic map Jimmy. I found myself very entranced by the layout and think you did well mapping with an angle, as it didn't even feel like the map was in a 2048x2048 grid. Difficulty felt tight too, being easy but not a pushover.

Just a couple things: there's an acid pit at the top left of the map that serves no purpose other than to merely troll the player... I think putting a chaingun there would be a nice goodie to help with the rest of the map, especially since the player is not likely to use any of the pistol ammo otherwise. Also, the yellow key rev that warps in is relatively toothless since the player can stay safely on the ledge and avoid projectiles with ease. I think if you gave the player the chaingun you could make that little ambush more interesting by putting a Pain Elemental in the rev's place, and then having the rev warp in behind the player on the cliff. Finally I think the final fight needs a bit of spice, as a lone rev in the exit room is a bit of an anticlimax. Releasing an AV on the ground floor could mix things up a bit (especially since the player only has the SG), although maybe two revs would also do if you didn't want to go overboard. Great work otherwise!

Jimmy said:

Comments, please! :)

I'll echo Dobu, this map was fun as hell, though a bit front-loaded. I played way deep in the night and wasn't sharp, so I died a few times at the start, but after that I sailed through and managed a UV-Max. It helped that I found the -- rather obvious -- Soulsphere secret before I laid hands on the Computer Map.

I agree with Dobu re: the Chaingun, but I'd also like more shotgun ammo. I had to finish off the HK that comes down on a lift with the Chainsaw -- not something I'm comfy with. ;D Ammo starvation is a valid approach, though, so it's your call.

The Revvie behind the yellow bars was pointless. By this time I actually had enough ammo, so I happily plinked him to death through the bars. Just a waste of time, really.

Your Lost Soul placement was very good. Those little jagoffs caused me a lot of pain. Actually, all the monsters were well-placed, and every category of critter took a good bite of me. The Sergeants were especially devastating, especially before I finally got the armor. Once I had the armor, the map was much more manageable.

I'll again echo Dobu re: the layout. Lots of cool angles and height variation, and very nice texture flow. And lest we forget, the music track was killer, very well-matched to this map.

I liked it!

Jimmy said:

Comments, please! :)

Good but kind of an empty map, you could include more carnage to this thing.

Nice work Jimmy. Some random notes:
- The revenants can't shoot through sectors 75 and 210 which made them very easy targets in my demo.
- Secret soulsphere on such a small map is a bit too much I think, at least on UV. A chaingun or rocket launcher instead would be better imo.
- Seems like a demon can stuck on sector 149 if you raise it at the right time, so maybe it needs block monster flag on its lines? That would hinder his movement a bit though.
- I wanted to be smart and say that you can glide out of the 2048x2048 area but damn, you already put impassable lines there. :D

Jimmy - Really nice map! Has that authentic classic Doom feel to it. Not hard at all, but a 5 minute blast with great flow. The texturing is crisp and clean here. Did you make that MIDI by chance? Very atmospheric.

joe-ilya - Hmm.. This map is really, really repetitive. You literally just hold down the fire button and shoot wave after wave of plasma at wave after wave of enemy, and the map is bland in terms of detail which makes this kind of thing feel stale fast. Slaughter-style maps always need to look really nice, and while this doesn't look bad, it's too plain.

It's not too hard a map, although the canyon really could stand to have more natural curvature and those enemies in the windows near the end were just annoying. I fell into a HOM pit and was killed by a Baron, didn't end up finding the exit. Also, what's with the voodoo doll?

---

All in all, the project looks promising!

dobu: Good points. I just wasn't too sure what to do with that pit originally, but a chaingun seems a fair addition to make. :) I'll see what I can do to spice up that rev fight - perhaps the addition of another one or two would do it.

SteveD: Thanks! I've taken your ammo complaint into consideration and hopefully things should be a little better balanced on UV, as I've added a few more shotgun shells early on and put four on the HK elevator.

Memfis: All bugs addressed/hopefully fixed. Thanks! :)

joe-ilya: Goddamnit. Somehow there's always one - ONE - HOM that escapes me, and never seems to appear when I test. You might have found the map particularly empty if you played on HMP - it's meant to be pretty easy on that skill.

Doomkid92: Sadly I did not compose the track for this, although it's such a perfect fit I'm not sure if I want to do anything specifically for it instead. I probably ought to.

Jimmy, it was a great little map with awesome atmosphere. Why would you change the midi when it works so well? The fact that you're a skilled composer doesn't set you the duty. :)

I made a better version of my map:

Cacolevel (V2)

-Made a lot of the spaces less compact
-Added a few more areas
-Added an extra secret
-More Bad Dudes

Feedback would be very appreciated.

So I gave your level a try as well, Inkie. It was quite plain and flat, but given the concept it seems OK - as a not entirely serious map. Relatively easy as well, but I managed to die there anyways, that's because I play bad and don't concentrate as much as I should. But I felt how the map was easier than it could have been. For a little simple gameplay and mainly for the smiles, it serves its purpose well. Be sure to avoid symmetrical monster placement in your future, seriously meant maps. A nice thingy you've got there. :)

Jimmy said:

joe-ilya: Goddamnit. Somehow there's always one - ONE - HOM that escapes me, and never seems to appear when I test. You might have found the map particularly empty if you played on HMP - it's meant to be pretty easy on that skill.

Played on UV actually.

Here's a map I made for this. Runs on map 07. UV only so far.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/if66a1kauflfist/Crypt_of_Unsilence.wad

scifista42 said:

Be sure to avoid symmetrical monster placement in your future, seriously meant maps.

So what is this about symmetrical monster placement? Why is it that some players dislike it so much?

Imagine we have a room with 4 halls leading away from the center, and in the mouth of each hall is a Cyberdemon, the very definition of symmetrical monster placement. To my way of thinking, this can be an interesting puzzle to solve. You are getting rockets from 4 directions, but nonetheless, the Cybs will move, and you can try to influence their movement with your own movements, so the situation is not static.

I can imagine one objection to this scenario, by saying that an asymmetrical monster layout, say with only 3 Cyberdemons, and the 4th hall guarded by a Revenant or an Arch-Vile, offers the player another choice, a direction to move which is less difficult and thus rewarding the strategic player.

Anyway, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

I don't dislike symmetry so much. It's just the fact that repetitiveness is generally worse than variety. Even if we're talking about something as simple as bilateral symmetry. Of course that symmetry works well, in some special situations like Inkie's concept or like you describe it's probably even the best possibility, for the sake of balance and the right "effect". But if you don't have to repeat design and can provide a fresh interesting one, still new and new, it's usually better. A combat situation that challenges the player assymmetrically (-> with more variety and allowing for tacticizing), that's the same situation.

It doesn't work that well with high-tiers or monsters with special ability such as archviles, those always require special care. But I find assymetrical placement of low-tiers well working for most of the time. Placement depends on the shape of the room as well, and shouldn't feel too random. If you've got a simple square room, it would be no shame to put just a single chaingunner in one of the corners (better than in the center). More elaborated environment allows for and even demands better thought-out placement, and in my opinion, as I said, variety is a plus.

I have to confess though, I find myself pretty much unable to utilize these ideas in practice well. You have probably noticed how little I actually make maps. :)

scifista42 said:

I have to confess though, I find myself pretty much unable to utilize these ideas in practice well. You have probably noticed how little I actually make maps. :)

Yeah, you should do something about that, and make more maps, maybe not "overthink" them, as I believe you said once. ;) As you know, I thought your Space Base map was one of the highlights of DWMP2013, and I've also played your Crossing Pipes map, which I enjoyed, and which had a couple surprisingly tough moments in spite of the low monster count. It was for sure an interesting use of slopes.

I appreciate your comments re: symmetry. You make some good points. Of course, I tend to make use of symmetrical monster placement from time to time, usually in the harder parts of a map. If you played my DWMP2013 map "Don't Touch That Dial!," the earlier parts of the map tend to have chaotic monster and item placement, but the Plasma Gun trap is completely symmetrical in its architecture and monster groupings, and is the spot where players are most likely to die. There are further symmetrical monster placements after this, designed to give the player a high monster-stress experience, and take advantage of symmetry in laying down a lot of firepower for the player to dodge or draw onto other monsters. But I agree that you wouldn't want symmetry in room after room. It should be part of a mapper's toolset, though, to use when it can be most effective.

Thanks for your comments, scifista. much appreciated as always.

Yours as well, SteveD, thank you too. You may be right with your recommendation. And judging your maps, they're not all of the same style, but you always achieve some kind of unification, organization and sense in the map (it's never that much random and I can quite pleasantly go my way through), and I admire that.

Inkie said:

Feedback would be very appreciated.

This was a very easy map, though I managed to get myself killed by the teleporting Sergeants on my first go. On my second try I was able to be patient and kill all the Cacos, then grabbed the key, activated the teleport trap, camped at the spawn site -- on that side -- and chaingunned all those jagoffs to death as they appeared, then waited for the ones from the other side to stagger over, and chaingunned them as well.

The rocket launcher trap is a good start, but it needs to be more severe. IMO, 6 Revvies instead of 2, and 8 Cacos instead of 4. And that's just for starters. After all, the mapset is called Mayhem, so we want to brutalize people, don't we? ;D

I think it's kinda cool that the map is shaped like a Caco, and I was able to figure that out even without looking at the Computer Map. ;)

Almost finished working on a little map for this project. Its a bit smaller than 2048x 2048. It will be name Death Dungeon. There are quite a few tense, tight battles and some big ambushes.

Will submit a link to it eventually.

Strictly uses textures from The Return texture pack.

Hey SteveD: You want brutal, go play mine. XD

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Here's a map I made for this. Runs on map 07. UV only so far.

Well, after Inkie's easy map, here comes our good buddy General Rainbow "Slaughterfest" Bacon to kick our teeth in. ;D I impressed myself by actually beating this map on UV, because I'm smart enough to evaluate my lack of skill and conclude that I should only play GRB maps on HNTR. That option was not available this time, however, and I achieved an epic death count in this meat-grinding murder-box of his. I didn't record my death count, but I'm guessing it was north of 25.

My main objection to the map is a lack of armor, which means that if you take any damage in the early going, one Revvie rocket takes you out, and one Archie ranged attack fades you even if you haven't taken a hit. But there are plenty of hitscanners around to make certain you take damage and get set-up for oblivion.

The most epic part of the map for me came when I had to fight 12 teleporting Revvies when I was at 4% health, and with a rocket launcher in a room full of columns . . . and no more health. Oh my, the "Good at Doom!" suicides kept piling up until I fought my way through with the SSG and a fuck-ton of dodging. Not to mention save-spamming. ;D

There's also an issue with the slow damn teleporters that cause more enemies to trickle in after you think you've cleared an area, only to walk away and have a Chaingunner waste your ass from behind. This particular area is one you're encouraged to door-camp twice, once against Chaingunners and next against Cacos, and that's sloggy. Then there's another slow teleporter after you get the Megasphere that delivers Hell Knights like they're popping off an assembly line, and in this area you also get a Cyberdemon rising from a solid floor! Methinks this is a flogging offense. Not the Cyb, but having it, or any monster, rise through a solid floor instead of a liquid sector. I've been guilty, too, but I'm removing all instances of this from my unreleased maps.

This is definitely a map for players of higher skill than me. It's very, very tough, as we expect from GRB, our friendly neighborhood axe-murderer. The lack of armor does make it feel a bit unfair until you finally get a Megasphere. You also need to use strategy, something I'm not accustomed to, so I have to die a few times before I realize there even is a strategy. ;D You will certainly spend little time thinking about how this is a 2048x2048 map, because it seems expansive even though the combat areas are quite cramped, if that makes any sense. Anyway, this was nasty enough to make me cry like a little girl who just got bitch-slapped by the school bully, and because I found ways to run screaming from powerful enemies, I made it through with only 68% kills. Thanks for the bloodshed, GRB, now please, please put the skill settings in! :D

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Hey SteveD: You want brutal, go play mine. XD

What timing! ;D

Thanks Steve. I'll try to fix those slow teleports, if you're brave you can circumvent the HK teleport and just release the cyberdemon, it lowers the platform they are all on as well.

I'll try to add the difficulty settings this coming week.

The armor thing, not gonna change, but I might add some on lower skills. Armor is for pussies if you ask me. If you found the ultra-hard to find secret you get rewarded with something to make the fights easier btw.

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Armor is for pussies if you ask me.

Or keyboarders who suck at dodging Revvies in tight spaces. But as the Resident Pussy, and speaking for the millions of Doom Pussies out there, I will seek revenge in my map. ;P Kind of an abstract HellTech Arena so far. Now, you had 3 Cybs, so I guess I'll put in 4, at least. We want to make certain that Suitepee has a rough go and cusses a lot when he livestreams this. ;D

General Rainbow Bacon said:

if you're brave you can circumvent the HK teleport and just release the cyberdemon, it lowers the platform they are all on as well.

You better believe I did that. Now, keep in mind, when I was running around that area, I looked and saw this fenced platform with a red key, a Plasma Gun, and a Cell Charge Pack. The only thing you left out was the flashing neon sign that read, "Cyberdemon Found Here." :D On the third try I was able to run around behind him, grab all the goodies, and then fry an Archie on my way to the teleporter, where I was ready for the twins who fucked my ass up on the previous try.

General Rainbow Bacon said:

If you found the ultra-hard to find secret you get rewarded with something to make the fights easier btw.

I just puzzled out the sequence in DB2. Damn, you're evil! But hey, BFGs are for pussies! :D

You're gonna need a lot of archies, and snipey chaingunners too :P

Can't wait to play your map. Also, maybe I'll make a non-2048x2048 version of this map, I enjoyed making it a lot.

Also, Steve, I dunno if you noticed, but I put a gun shaped shadow in that place where you have to shoot to open the first part of the secret.

I've played Jimmy's map and I must say it was a very pleasant experience, nice music to boot too. It really feels bigger than it actually is and doesn't resort to the teleport onslaughts that these style of maps are sometimes renowned for. Good job.
I've just about done my entry, though I must admit to building this map on a rather noob(ish) basis (drew the square out and built the map from there), so it will probably suck :P