SumS**t Dot B E X (Dehacked Buffoonery)

My first completed DEhacked file

Need some feedback as I'm going to use it for my first wad.

https://www.mediafire.com/?jy9tmmp3ma0we8r

Use the latest version of Prboom-plus with a complevel of 0 or 9. DO NOT use complevel 2-4 as it can possibly cause an all ghosts bug.

This does not work with Eternity Engine so don't bother.

Will post all the information on what's changed later. Too lazy to do it now. Enjoy!

TendaMonsta said:

This does not work with Eternity Engine so don't bother.

I might be bothered by the fact it doesn't work. What happens vs what's expected?

Quasar said:

I might be bothered by the fact it doesn't work. What happens vs what's expected?

"Bad frame characters in lump XXXX"

I don't know why that happens with Eternity as every port I've tested this patch with works fine with no known errors.

TendaMonsta said:

"Bad frame characters in lump XXXX"

I don't know why that happens with Eternity as every port I've tested this patch with works fine with no known errors.

You have a lump in the WAD named SKULEBE2. That's not valid. It's probably supposed to be E8E2 I am guessing. Other ports may ignore it but Eternity's coding isn't currently capable of allowing it.

Quasar said:

You have a lump in the WAD named SKULEBE2. That's not valid. It's probably supposed to be E8E2 I am guessing. Other ports may ignore it but Eternity's coding isn't currently capable of allowing it.

It fixed it! Yay! I can use this on one of my favorite ports again.

TendaMonsta said:

My first completed DEhacked file

Need some feedback as I'm going to use it for my first wad.

Some interesting changes. However I'm not sure about some of them, if they would affect the gameplay positively. I think I've already given you feedback some time ago when you were working on this, and mentioned things I wasn't satisfied with.

Minigun animation still looks bugged. I still think the blood should disappear after some time (20 seconds or less), to not overload the screen and the engine with too many game objects to handle. I see your motivation behind the prolonged pain states, lowered "mass" and longer attack "preparation" of monsters - but I'm not convinced about the impact on gameplay unless I see the monsters well-employed in maps designed for them.

I like the changes to lower-ranked weapons. However the plasmagun is overpowered and I'm totally annoyed by the fact that the BFG can kill you when you just shoot (maybe prolong the time before the first Explode codepointer in the projectile's See state). Revenants and masterminds became really gimmicky, they would require special care when being put in a map. Other monsters are fine. I'm also okay with fast projectiles.

Do you actually plan to make maps specially for your monsters, or is this simply a gameplay mod? In my opinion, as a gameplay mod this would fail, but it might turn out very interesting with maps specially designed for your improved monsters and guns. Anyway, nice work!

scifista42 said:

In my opinion, as a gameplay mod this would fail

Agreed, the changes are a bit too drastic for maps with any amount of monster density to be playable I think. doom.wad might work, but even doom2 seemed too unbalanced on maps like MAP08. Especially with the low max ammo count, which really bugged me, because it's very easy to waste boxes of shells. I'm not really a fan of gameplay mods in general though, so that all that for what it's worth.

scifista42 said:

Minigun animation still looks bugged. I still think the blood should disappear after some time (20 seconds or less), to not overload the screen and the engine with too many game objects to handle. I see your motivation behind the prolonged pain states, lowered "mass" and longer attack "preparation" of monsters - but I'm not convinced about the impact on gameplay unless I see the monsters well-employed in maps designed for them.

Don't know how to fix the minigun animation and can't even figure out what's wrong with it. I guess I'll make the blood disappear.

scifista42 said:I like the changes to lower-ranked weapons. However the plasmagun is overpowered and I'm totally annoyed by the fact that the BFG can kill you when you just shoot (maybe prolong the time before the first Explode codepointer in the projectile's See state).

Noted.

scifista42 said:Do you actually plan to make maps specially for your monsters, or is this simply a gameplay mod? In my opinion, as a gameplay mod this would fail, but it might turn out very interesting with maps specially designed for your improved monsters and guns. Anyway, nice work! [/B]

It's going to be made with my first set of maps. I just wanted to get an opinion on everything before I started mapping. What makes you say it'd fail?

plums said:

Agreed, the changes are a bit too drastic for maps with any amount of monster density to be playable I think. doom.wad might work, but even doom2 seemed too unbalanced on maps like MAP08. Especially with the low max ammo count, which really bugged me, because it's very easy to waste boxes of shells. I'm not really a fan of gameplay mods in general though, so that all that for what it's worth.

These comments made me wish I had drugs. Kinda a waste of time making this if it's honestly that bad. It wasn't made with the idea of being properly playable on any wad but my own which only has the dehacked file, textures, sprites, and sounds. Will be working on a few maps in the future and see how the monsters can act on maps specialized for them.

Anymore suggestions? Specifically from Plum since that's what I'm mainly looking for and it'd be great to hear something else from you.

TendaMonsta said:

It's going to be made with my first set of maps. I just wanted to get an opinion on everything before I started mapping. What makes you say it'd fail?
...
It wasn't made with the idea of being properly playable on any wad but my own which only has the dehacked file, textures, sprites, and sounds. Will be working on a few maps in the future and see how the monsters can act on maps specialized for them.

You've tweaked the balance so that the monsters became more of a threat even as individuals. That's a good thing, Doom's monsters were quite weak and their behaviour was simple. However as I (and plums) said, the changes are big enough to break balance of the original maps. Just try to load MAP06 of Doom 2 and fight the first revenant in that cramped metal maze. You'll realize the balance is off.

Suggestion: Your modified monsters would require maps with an accustomized enemy and ammo placement - to be challenging, but fair, given the monster's abilities. And also a bigger space to move for the player and for the monsters to fully reveal their new attack potential.

Looking forward to see how you map. Really, since you've created your own gameplay mechanics, your work can turn out as very unusual and interesting - it's up to you. ;)

TendaMonsta said:

These comments made me wish I had drugs. Kinda a waste of time making this if it's honestly that bad. It wasn't made with the idea of being properly playable on any wad but my own which only has the dehacked file, textures, sprites, and sounds. Will be working on a few maps in the future and see how the monsters can act on maps specialized for them.

Anymore suggestions? Specifically from Plum since that's what I'm mainly looking for and it'd be great to hear something else from you.

Hey, I'm sorry if my comments were discouraging, I'm not trying to be down on you. Just speaking honestly. You've got a problem that a lot of gameplay mods have I think, which is that a few small issues undermine the whole experience.

I can try it more thoroughly on some other maps later. If you want this to be playable on normal maps, some ideas that come to mind:
* Give 25 shells per box. This way the player is in less danger of wasting a box of shells if they have low ammo and there are two boxes together.
* More max rocket ammo. At least 20.
* Slow those demons down a bit. They're practically moving at -fast speed.

I'm sure there are some other tweaks that can be made.

I have to ask, though. If you meant for this to be playable on other maps, did you test it with other maps? I can't help but feel if you played it with a variety of existing levels you would find some problems. Unless you're a much better player than I am anyhow ;)

But I have to agree with scifista, the changes here feel substantial enough to warrant their own levels made for them. That I would be very interested in playing, since it still feels like Doom but with some variety.