PSX Doom: The Lost Levels - New Pre-Beta Available courtesy of Salahmander2

Sodaholic said:

Might I suggest using Doom 64 music in the Lost Levels track arrangement for the sake of variety?

Better yet, let me compose some dark ambient tracks for the project.

You guys can go check out My Bandcamp to listen to some of my tracks. I create great, quality work.

Sodaholic said:

Might I suggest using Doom 64 music in the Lost Levels track arrangement for the sake of variety?

And just to check: has Go 2 It had its detail simplified using PSX Entryway as a reference?

For Master Levels, TNT and Plutonia, they can draw from the new tracks from FD which were mostly used only once. The pre-beta is usually pretty bad with music ast time I tested it, with many tracks either repeated right after each other or with a one map gap till repeation.

There's going to be a patch of sorts that will also add Aubrey's missing tracks to the mix (They are only excluded from LL/PSX TC because directly including them would be ripping him off, after the effort he went through to release the Doom and Quake soundtacks he did, just for us. The patch is for people that bought his soundtracks and want to use the cut/bonus tracks)

jdagenet said:

Better yet, let me compose some dark ambient tracks for the project...
...My Bandcamp...
...I create great, quality work.

This. I actually think this project should as the same old vanilla PSX tracks get a little bit boring after the billionth time you hear them.

mrthejoshmon said:

This. I actually think this project should as the same old vanilla PSX tracks get a little bit boring after the billionth time you hear them.

I agree.
We don't want all of PSX Doom music turning into D_RUNNIN.

I can create a short little dark ambient demo to demonstrate the kind of work I can do for this project if anyone else is interested in the idea.

Yeah, anything but D_RUNNIN. Please.

uh, what. None of the PC music will be in this. Its all PSX and PSX FD music.

If post-'90s maps like Sewers and Betray are being included, why not No Rest for the Living? Since DeXiaZ is already making them, I would think that they'd be perfectly suited for this project. I don't really see much sense in keeping them separated.

jdagenet said:

Better yet, let me compose some dark ambient tracks for the project.

You guys can go check out My Bandcamp to listen to some of my tracks. I create great, quality work.

I actually really like how your music sounds, but I don't think it would fit this project for three reasons. One is that it's not made by Aubrey Hodges so it's not really official "ambient console Doom music," secondly is that your stuff sounds much more lively and pronounced (PSX/N64 is much slower and softer, meant to provide a backdrop and not to be focused on), and thirdly, there's an entire library of perfectly suited music that is currently going unused (N64's music).

Again, I like your music a lot, but it would be best in another project in my opinion.

Ragnor said:

uh, what. None of the PC music will be in this.

What they mean by that is that they don't want the PSX music to be used so repetitively that it becomes just as annoying as Running From Evil has become for many people.

Ragnor said:

Its all PSX and PSX FD music.

I'm not sure that's a good idea. I really think that the Doom 64 tracks should be used to prevent excessive repetition in the track arrangement. Seriously, we have an entire library of perfectly suited music going unused, and 70+ slots need to be filled. Is there any good reason not to use it?

Sodaholic said:

I actually really like how your music sounds, but I don't think it would fit this project for three reasons. One is that it's not made by Aubrey Hodges so it's not really official "ambient console Doom music," secondly is that your stuff sounds much more lively and pronounced (PSX/N64 is much slower and softer, meant to provide a backdrop and not to be focused on), and thirdly, there's an entire library of perfectly suited music that is currently going unused (N64's music).

Again, I like your music a lot, but it would be best in another project in my opinion.

Here, give this a listen: http://www.mediafire.com/listen/gchssiko709gac6/MUS_DARK_AMBIENT_001.m4a

This is a small, pretty short dark ambient piece I created earlier.
If you still don't think it fits or is not needed, that's perfectly fine. I was just attempting to solve the music selection problem they were having with this project.

Sodaholic said:

If post-'90s maps like Sewers and Betray are being included, why not No Rest for the Living? Since DeXiaZ is already making them, I would think that they'd be perfectly suited for this project. I don't really see much sense in keeping them separated.

The main goal of LL is authenticity. At the time both PSX Dooms were released, Sewers and Betray both already existed (they are a 94 and 95 map respectively), while NRFTL and probably D64, did not exist. NRFTL also needs a special approach thats different to the guidelines of this one; it was made many years after PSX Doom, and the maps are not vanilla compatible. The map makers for NRFTL asked for the engine limits to be extended to accommodate their maps; its thus fundamentally wrong to apply the exact same ruleset that LL's main level set uses, which is to painstakingly recreate the maps as if they were meant to be included on the PSX Doom discs all along.

Thus, it makes sense to have Doom 64 and NRFTL as further addons to the TC; new rules can be established, limits can be increased, etc.

What they mean by that is that they don't want the PSX music to be used so repetitively that it becomes just as annoying as Running From Evil has become for many people.[/B]

I was referring to the one guy that misinterpreted the other remark. He seemed to believe PC tracks would be included.

I'm not sure that's a good idea. I really think that the Doom 64 tracks should be used to prevent excessive repetition in the track arrangement. Seriously, we have an entire library of perfectly suited music going unused, and 70+ slots need to be filled. Is there any good reason not to use it? [/B]

Again, authenticity. Doom 64 has its own special style that's rather different. Sadly, the six missing tracks cant be included, ive been trying to find places to insert these missing tracks to break this monotony.

Since you were banned during most of this project, you likely missed Aubrey Hodges' threads on DW; in case you dont know about these tracks, we learned that Subspace, Subterra and Vesperas each had a dedicated music track made for them, much like the other Master Levels did, but they werent finished by the release date. They are available on his website, along with two cut tracks from PSX Doom with unknown history and a remix of the Mt Erebus "crying babies" theme. The PSX TC utility that replaces the PSXMUS wad contents with the high quality versions from Aubrey's site also restores these missing tracks (or is planned to) and will insert the new tracks into Lost Levels (Dragonsbrethen and I talked about this a long while ago; he gave me a go ahead). Some examples are Bloodsea Keep using the tracks Darker than Blackness, a track which often has the sounds of liquid and squishing organs, and Odyssey of Noises having the Vesperas track, Warbled Logic, which sounds like demons possessing tech and corrupting radio systems. Fitting for a human city in hell. Definitely need help with it though, seemed like noone else cared about the music assignment till you posted about it.

Another interesting way to do music would be to borrow N64 Quake and Quake 2's music (TNT = Quake, Plutonia = Quake 2?), which, due to the fact Aubrey did those, is very similar. Not in the main download though, as it breaks the goal of authenticity there. So many options..

I'd honestly just use the Doom 64 tracks, theres an additional 20 tracks right there and along with the PSX Doom and Final Doom soundtracks thats 50 tracks right there.

Another consideration to keep in mind for arrangement is how spaced apart each track is when using the PC level order, like if the user is using a custom MAPINFO to restore the proper level order.

Ragnor said:

The main goal of LL is authenticity. At the time both PSX Dooms were released, Sewers and Betray both already existed (they are a 94 and 95 map respectively), while NRFTL and probably D64, did not exist. NRFTL also needs a special approach thats different to the guidelines of this one; it was made many years after PSX Doom, and the maps are not vanilla compatible. The map makers for NRFTL asked for the engine limits to be extended to accommodate their maps; its thus fundamentally wrong to apply the exact same ruleset that LL's main level set uses, which is to painstakingly recreate the maps as if they were meant to be included on the PSX Doom discs all along.

Fair enough. However, Sewers and Betray weren't official maps until 2005, and they've kinda been disowned ever since.

Ragnor said:

Another interesting way to do music would be to borrow N64 Quake and Quake 2's music (TNT = Quake, Plutonia = Quake 2?), which, due to the fact Aubrey did those, is very similar. Not in the main download though, as it breaks the goal of authenticity there. So many options..

Using Doom 64 music is pretty close to authentic, at least closer than using N64 Quake 1 and 2's music.

Ragnor said:

Again, authenticity. Doom 64 has its own special style that's rather different. Sadly, the six missing tracks cant be included, ive been trying to find places to insert these missing tracks to break this monotony.

Is using extremely closely related music by the same guy mere months later going to break this goal so badly? I doubt that Aubrey rested for more than a couple of weeks before immediately starting on the 64 soundtrack. And sure, the styles are slightly different, but not nearly enough that it would be unfitting.

This project already isn't 100% authentic from the start since it tries to add maps that weren't originally there. It's modeled to feel authentic and be as close to it as we can, but it still isn't. So doesn't using the 64 OST fall under the same general umbrella?

Aubrey Hodges said "The result is distinctive but still feels connected to the overall style of the first two soundtracks I composed for the series."

vinnie245 said:

I'd honestly just use the Doom 64 tracks, theres an additional 20 tracks right there and along with the PSX Doom and Final Doom soundtracks thats 50 tracks right there.

Yep. If this is done, it will pretty much kill most repetition right there.

I'd say, Nintendo 64 music is very different. At the very least, don't mix PSX and N64 music in the same episode, or something.

I dont even see a problem to begin with really; the 89 official maps never really got repetitive in the music department to me. I just want the cut/lost tracks restored and that's it for me. Doom 64 had a few cut tracks too!

This is way past a Pre-Beta now, could the forum topic title and first post be updated if possible?

It WOULD be nice if this got back into gear. Its in the polish stage and is still very much a beta. Maybe even an alpha if the levels still aren't all completable

I know I'm KIND OF at fault, since I stopped testing after
Garrison, but it was pretty clear they needed someone that could better work with the PSX limits and the design goals to find the bugs they were specifically looking for.

Hey guys, am gonna touch up a few maps on here, any maps you wish for me to do??

Ragnor said:

It WOULD be nice if this got back into gear. Its in the polish stage and is still very much a beta. Maybe even an alpha if the levels still aren't all completable

When I got round to testing, it appeared that most of the TNT levels were the ones that were the most broken (blasphemy!) and by the looks of things they were rushed due to some of the glaring accidents in them that are an easy fix (I.E sector height issues, sector action issues and somehow a missing key).

Am currently in the process of changing a few maps to conform to the texture/flats limits, boy does it make it feel more PSX like.

When it comes to the revised maps with the new limits, want me to upload them individually or just put them all in the PK3?

Links to Castle, The Escape, Icon of Sin, and Odyssey of Noises are down.

Omega Tyrant said:

Links to Castle, The Escape, Icon of Sin, and Odyssey of Noises are down.

They're all in the Pre-Beta version.

Whey, that's the levels pretty much retextured to conform to their limits, also reduced detail in maps that went over the limit and done bugfixes, whilst I was at it, also managed to add a few secret level entrences on certain levels. Will upload at some point. Only levels not changed are pretty much Castle, Escape and the Icon of Sin maps.

Sorry if this is a silly post but how would I try out the pre-beta? I would look through the thread but there's 50 pages now! Also, there're no instructions in the OP. Again, sorry if this post is annoying. :)

Do you mean getting the actual Lost Levels running??

Salahmander2 said:

Do you mean getting the actual Lost Levels running??

Yeah. :)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/428qy1l7k035k57/PSXLOST.PK3

New version, apologies if there are any bugs leftover, and apologies if I wasn't allowed to upload a new version without permission.

Average, load up the TC as normal, but also simply load up the Lost Levels as well. I hope this helps.

Cheers! I knew it would be something simple. I was just a little confused with the whole BAT file thing. I can just add it to the BAT file and it'll work? I'll give it a try. :)

Not done it by .BAT, I would use ZDL, it's MUCH better and MUCH easier.

Salahmander2 said:

Not done it by .BAT, I would use ZDL, it's MUCH better and MUCH easier.

Ah, okay. I'll do that. Thanks for your help and thanks for a new build. I appreciate it. :)