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Doom 4 should have...

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Kaskaum said:

The only thing trailer says is that UAC developed some tech which allowed somehow, the fusion between organic matter and robotics. But somehow, it went in a wrong direction from what was planned resulting in those aberrations.


In DOOM 1 and DOOM 3, the scientists created new tech (the teleportation technology) which caused something bad to happen (a portal to hell), and then the demons fused themselves with the UAC technology.

There's nothing in the trailer that goes against that plot.

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ChickenOrBeef said:

In DOOM 1 and DOOM 3, the scientists created new tech (the teleportation technology) which caused something bad to happen (a portal to hell), and then the demons fused themselves with the UAC technology.

There's nothing in the trailer that goes against that plot.


I don't agree at least with D1-2. In icon of sin level, demons are summoned directly from hell by that portal, and the ones with mechanic parts like arachnotron and mancubus are summoned with their weapons directly from hell. So it means they have weapons by their own nature even before the assault on mars-earth.

SO in D1-2 at least, the only ones using UAC weapons are the possessed marines who carry pistols, shotguns and machineguns.

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Kaskaum said:

I don't agree at least with D1-2. In icon of sin level, demons are summoned directly from hell by that portal, and the ones with mechanic parts like arachnotron and mancubus are summoned with their weapons directly from hell. So it means they have weapons by their own nature even before the assault on mars-earth.


How do you know they were always in Hell? And how do you know other demons didn't bring back technology?

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ChickenOrBeef said:

How do you know they were always in Hell? And how do you know other demons didn't bring back technology?


It is a direct conclusion. Given the fact that D1-2 don't have a more complex story, the only thing the game tells us is the fact that Hell passed through our plane.

The only ones in D1-2 that use UAC weapons are the possessed marines who carry pistols, shotguns and machineguns, because they were solders and were turned in zombies.

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I've always assumed that demons stole the technology. In DOOM 3 it's specifically stated that demons stole BFGs from the reckon units that went through the portal.

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Touchdown said:

I've always assumed that demons stole the technology. In DOOM 3 it's specifically stated that demons stole BFGs from the reckon units that went through the portal.


D3 has a more complex plot and it works as a reboot of the first Doom, only in D3 they brought a new approach for Demons to have mechanic parts.

And this new Doom feels like another reboot too. Reboots are different from Remakes, remakes bring exactly the same plot as the previous game(Like Re1 remake from GC). In reboot they re-start all the story with a different approach, a re-imagination.

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SO far we have 2 options: they're demons who used this new tech to fuse themselves with UAC weaponry. Or they're totally created by UAC itself through this new tech.

I'm not worried what I'm shooting at in Doom, whether Demons, Mutations,or Aliens, since there are enough monsters to shoot at and gore.

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Kaskaum said:

SO far we have 2 options: they're demons who used this new tech to fuse themselves with UAC weaponry. Or they're totally created by UAC itself through this new tech.

I'm not worried what I'm shooting at in Doom, whether Demons, Mutations,or Aliens, since there are enough monsters to shoot at and gore.


They're demons dude. The line "instead, we let them in" practically verifies that they are demons or at least monsters from some other dimension. I think you are reading way too far into the trailer and coming up with wild speculations. All the references in the trailer like "an UNHOLY union of flesh and metal" and "this brave new world has gone to HELL" makes an even stronger case that the monsters are demons from hell.

Besides, I am sure that the people at id are well aware of the general disgust amongst Doom fans over the Doom movie's departure from the original source material of the Doom monsters. The monsters in Doom are either demons from hell or possessed humans, not infected humans, not mutated humans, not some derivative of RE monsters, THEY'RE DEMONS, PERIOD. Anything less or more than that is not Doom.

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It would be utterly retarded if they followed the Doom movie plot. Doom Movie: The Game. Ugh

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DooM_RO said:

It would be utterly retarded if they followed the Doom movie plot. Doom Movie: The Game. Ugh


There will be a more complex story in this Doom than most old school fans think.

Because id hired the writer Graham Joyce to make the story of this game. If there were just a 2 lines basic plot like D1-2 which is about kicking demon's ass while running under heavy metal music and save the day, there wouldn't be the need to spend money to pay a fiction science novel writer for this game.

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Did you guys know that some monsters in DOOM 3 were NOT direct 'born-in-the-flames' demons from Hell?

Lost Souls require demonic possession of a human (something like a virus) and turning him/her into a demon.

Cherubs are implied to be kidnapped babies turned into monsters ("They took my baby").

One could argue Trites and Vagary are also humans turned into monsters considering their very humane features.

Hellknights are the most interesting. When you're in Hell, HKs have a different look with various carvings on their skin. One of those carvings is a pentagram on a forehead. What's interesting is that at exactly one point in the game (in Hell) you encounter a number of possessed humans. Here's the thing: they have the exact same pentagram on their foreheads AND their skin is overgrowing their eyes (and HKs have no eyes). It might suggest that Hellknights are in fact humans twisted into those monstrous beasts.

a note: these are just theories based on observations. You can say that 'they look human because Hell wants you to be disturbed even more' but I kind of like them anyway.

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DooM_RO said:

It would be utterly retarded if they followed the Doom movie plot. Doom Movie: The Game. Ugh



Well, actually...


It's the other way round, but still.

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Doomguy777 said:

On the topic of gore, I believe blood and gore should be extreme. Not as extreme as a Cannibal Corpse album per say, but more than Shadow Warrior (2013) and enough blood and gore that makes people say "Wow this game is extreme and brutal." You know stuff that would make headlines on the news and stuff.


This is exactly what I DON'T want to see in the game. While obviously you can't go blasting demons all over without blood and gore, I also don't want to see adolescent overdone crap like in the beginning of the Doom movie when the door closes and takes that chick's arm off. That was the moment I lost all hope for the movie. I could just imagine 2 Wayne's World looking stoners seeing that and going WHOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAA COOOOOOOOOOOOLL DUUUUUDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEE! Problem was, it was 2005, and now it's 2014 and I'm not 12 years old. That kind of crap just makes me roll my eyes.

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Doomguy777 said:

On the topic of music I want a blend of heavy metal and ambience.

Certain levels should have heavy metal where it fits, and certain levels should have ambience where it fits. I certainly don't want 80's thrash metal blasting when I'm in a level I consider ambient. I also don't want PSX DOOM ambience when I'm in a level that I consider to be metal.


A level you consider to be metal? What? :D
The idea of a level having a track has been gone for way over a decade and I don't think it's coming back. Even the idea of "levels" is slowly being "phased" out. That doesn't mean it can't come back or that the alternative is inherently "better", but I really doubt Doom will have levels in the classic sense. 10 years ago, it was almost against the law to have music in your game, but now that has come back...thankfully. It's not set up the way it used to be though. Back in the day it would stick to a level. In some games it's dynamic and follows the action. The way things mainly are done now is like in the new Wolfenstein though. Music follows the plot rather than the action. If something important in the plot is happening on screen, the music will reflect that. Doom will most likely follow this trend. The good thing is that this allows for as much variety as the story can hold. Action packed guitars, lonely strings, even melancholy/romantic music.

On the topic of gore, I believe blood and gore should be extreme. Not as extreme as a Cannibal Corpse album per say, but more than Shadow Warrior (2013) and enough blood and gore that makes people say "Wow this game is extreme and brutal." You know stuff that would make headlines on the news and stuff.


While I too want some level of gore, I don't see how controversial levels of gore makes the game any better? If you want to strike an emotional chord with the audience, you're much better off by establishing a connection with an in-game character and then subjecting him/her to unpleasantries or death.

Graphics... I really don't care about graphics, but for God's sake don't make it like RAGE in terms of textures. Also, show some damn color. Having grey-brown isn't scary. I want to see tons of color, the game should be extremely vivid and fast just like Classic DOOM.


Color has been back in plenty for quite a few years. I'm not at all worried about this aspect.

The demons should scare me, it should be fun to play, and it should have a gripping story that's not in your face though.

I like the idea of having a story in an FPS. But I don't want it constantly in my face like so many modern FPS's do. Case and point, Bioshock: Infinite. The game is overrated to death for no damn reason. I just want to actually play a damn video game you know.


Scary and fun don't always go hand in hand. Sure, something scary can be entertaining, but if you're "constantly" in fear of the next dark corner, it's not going to be action packed fun. You can have different segments of course, but generally the game needs to find a tone and stick with it.

I don't see how Bioshock Infinite is overrated. The game was hailed for its touching story presentation and berated for its crappy action setup. How should it have been rated?

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Don't get me started on how bad BioShock Infinite was. That game was such a disappointment in so many places. Especially the story presetation (not the story itself). It was basically Wolfenstein 3D: slaughter, slaughter, slaughter, elevator ride with characters talking (an equivalent of a wall of text), slaughter, slaughter... repeat. The most obnoxious story/gameplay division you can have. Not to mention disconnection between gameplay and story, arena after arena level design that got rid of everything that was good in BS1/2, boring weapons, simplified systems, too much focus on combat with a bazillion of more interesting things going in the gameworld...

That game should have been an exploration based storytelling game with no combat and focus on the more interesting subjects presented. The story was really the only reason to play it.

And I agree, it's a horribly overrated game, next to Half-Life 2.

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Sure, but I've seen that covered in several different, lengthy articles. Those issues aren't exactly unknown to the critics as opposed to Half-Life 2's issues that are generally ignored.

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Shaviro said:

While I too want some level of gore, I don't see how controversial levels of gore makes the game any better? If you want to strike an emotional chord with the audience, you're much better off by establishing a connection with an in-game character and then subjecting him/her to unpleasantries or death.



I just wanna kill stuff...I really don't think Doom should be as story driven as Wolfenstein, as much as I liked it. Doom is all about the gameplay and satisfying weapons for me. The gore should be like in Wolfenstein but expanded...In fact every gameplay aspect in Doom should be an evolution of the TNO formula. It should be what Doom was for Wolf3D.

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DooM_RO said:

I just wanna kill stuff...I really don't think Doom should be as story driven as Wolfenstein, as much as I liked it. Doom is all about the gameplay and satisfying weapons for me. The gore should be like in Wolfenstein but expanded...In fact every gameplay aspect in Doom should be an evolution of the TNO formula. It should be what Doom was for Wolf3D.


Id will do what was done to Wolfenstein TNO and put old school gameplay mechanics together with a story. The fact they hired Graham lead to it. There wouldn't be sense in hiring a good writer if they didn't want to give the story importance in this Doom.

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Shaviro said:

A level you consider to be metal? What? :D
The idea of a level having a track has been gone for way over a decade and I don't think it's coming back. Even the idea of "levels" is slowly being "phased" out. That doesn't mean it can't come back or that the alternative is inherently "better", but I really doubt Doom will have levels in the classic sense. 10 years ago, it was almost against the law to have music in your game, but now that has come back...thankfully. It's not set up the way it used to be though. Back in the day it would stick to a level. In some games it's dynamic and follows the action. The way things mainly are done now is like in the new Wolfenstein though. Music follows the plot rather than the action. If something important in the plot is happening on screen, the music will reflect that. Doom will most likely follow this trend. The good thing is that this allows for as much variety as the story can hold. Action packed guitars, lonely strings, even melancholy/romantic music.



While I too want some level of gore, I don't see how controversial levels of gore makes the game any better? If you want to strike an emotional chord with the audience, you're much better off by establishing a connection with an in-game character and then subjecting him/her to unpleasantries or death.



Color has been back in plenty for quite a few years. I'm not at all worried about this aspect.



Scary and fun don't always go hand in hand. Sure, something scary can be entertaining, but if you're "constantly" in fear of the next dark corner, it's not going to be action packed fun. You can have different segments of course, but generally the game needs to find a tone and stick with it.

I don't see how Bioshock Infinite is overrated. The game was hailed for its touching story presentation and berated for its crappy action setup. How should it have been rated?


I am a metalhead! (I listen to 80's and early 90's thrash metal) :3 Also it's an honor to have you reply. Seriously, you are my hero (no bs either)!

The new DOOM game should be like a sequel to DOOM 64, or it should be like DOOM 3: Phobos, DOOM 3: Deimos, and DOOM 3: Inferno. :3 Levels are being phased out.

But that's the whole point. Some of us don't want an interactive movie. In my opinion, you get more immersed in a game like Wolfenstein 3D or DOOM 1 per say because the atmosphere is gripping and pulls you in. You know what I am saying right? I mean, that's why games like Half-Life 1 pull me in.

Half-Life 1 made appropriate use of scripted events, combined with good atmosphere, and awesome gameplay! In fact Half-Life 1 is more close to a true DOOM 3 then most people think!

I did not like Half-Life 2, because it felt really generic and the game was bland compared to the first. It lacked the atmosphere and the mystery. I for one like the Xen levels because they made me feel like I was on another world.

By the way, good luck on DOOM 3: Phobos and hopefully id Software takes notes from your posts, my posts, and GoatLord's posts.

P.S What do you think about my hallucination idea? You know where you have an insanity meter? I know it's not really DOOM, but I think it'd be cool.

Also, Bioshock: Infinite was overrated. The game felt so generic it's not even funny. Slaughter, elevator, slaughter, linear stuff, slaughter, elevator, linear stuff, linear stuff. It wasn't fun, it was like I was basically playing a movie instead of a game.

When you play an immersive game, you feel like you are part of an event, part of history.... that is the true immersion.

By a tone, yes DOOM 4 can be scary and action-packed fun. Just look at DOOM 1 or Half-Life 1 for an example of what I mean. You are scared because of the sounds the demons make, and the fact that the demons look scary. You have low health and ammo, but you see a backpack full of ammo and a medikit right there. You rush for it only to turn around and shooting a bunch of demons. It's adrenaline-pumping, it's fast, and it's brutal.

That is the experience of playing the original DOOM back in 1993 on MS-DOS. I hope and wish that the DOOM franchise continues the sense of mystery, atmosphere, controversy, horror, and awesome 80's action style.

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doom_is_great said:

They're demons dude. The line "instead, we let them in" practically verifies that they are demons or at least monsters from some other dimension.


THANK you, doom_is_great!


I think you are reading way too far into the trailer and coming up with wild speculations. All the references in the trailer like "an UNHOLY union of flesh and metal" and "this brave new world has gone to HELL" makes an even stronger case that the monsters are demons from hell.



Thank... hey! That's what I said!


The monsters in Doom are either demons from hell or possessed humans, not infected humans, not mutated humans, not some derivative of RE monsters, THEY'RE DEMONS, PERIOD. Anything less or more than that is not Doom.


*Sigh* No one reads my posts :(


But as mentioned in my post, it not only says what doom_is_great highlights but also "But then, we let them in."


On top of that, I think some of your suggestions, Kaskaum, are kind of ridiculous stupid. Just... yeah.

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Kaskaum said:

And this new Doom feels like another reboot too. Reboots are different from Remakes, remakes bring exactly the same plot as the previous game(Like Re1 remake from GC). In reboot they re-start all the story with a different approach, a re-imagination.


I really hope this isn't another reboot. That means this would be a reboot of a reboot. Is every DOOM game going to be a re-imagining of the same plot?

Kaskaum said:

There will be a more complex story in this Doom than most old school fans think.

Because id hired the writer Graham Joyce to make the story of this game. If there were just a 2 lines basic plot like D1-2 which is about kicking demon's ass while running under heavy metal music and save the day, there wouldn't be the need to spend money to pay a fiction science novel writer for this game.


Joyce was hired in 2009. So he was working on the first version of DOOM 4, which was scrapped. We know that version was heavy on the story, cinematics, and set pieces (similar to Call of Duty), so if they're going to create a completely new DOOM 4, we can assume it will be quite different. There's a good chance the story is of less importance now.

Shaviro said:

The idea of a level having a track has been gone for way over a decade and I don't think it's coming back. Even the idea of "levels" is slowly being "phased" out. That doesn't mean it can't come back or that the alternative is inherently "better", but I really doubt Doom will have levels in the classic sense. 10 years ago, it was almost against the law to have music in your game, but now that has come back...thankfully. It's not set up the way it used to be though. Back in the day it would stick to a level. In some games it's dynamic and follows the action. The way things mainly are done now is like in the new Wolfenstein though. Music follows the plot rather than the action. If something important in the plot is happening on screen, the music will reflect that. Doom will most likely follow this trend. The good thing is that this allows for as much variety as the story can hold. Action packed guitars, lonely strings, even melancholy/romantic music.


This is basically what I was referring to when mentioning RAGE. It has an open world that allows you to choose which level to initiate. I can see DOOM 4 expanding upon that structure. It feels organic and still retains the ability to set the primary game around interesting, varied level design.

Shaviro said:

While I too want some level of gore, I don't see how controversial levels of gore makes the game any better? If you want to strike an emotional chord with the audience, you're much better off by establishing a connection with an in-game character and then subjecting him/her to unpleasantries or death.


But the game doesn't have to strike emotional chords; at least not in the way you're implying. It would feel extremely fresh if DOOM 4 was more of a no bullshit experience. Most of today's shooters try to have an emotional, cinematic story. Sure, DOOM 4 can try and do that and do it well, but in the end, the game will feel less unique.

As for why more gore is a good thing, it can be more satisfying if handled correctly. I know Brutal Doom isn't loved on here, but I feel the increased gore effects make the game feel more satisfying than before. Blowing away the upper bodies of three imps with the double-barrel shotgun is pretty fuckin fun.

That type of gore would make for a better gameplay experience at the expense of taking the storytelling less seriously. But again, I don't think DOOM 4 should emphasize the story.

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I see gore as something that enhances the realism, not as a selling point. Same as physics. I don't care for gimmicky physics, I care about physics that reinforce the idea of a believable world. I will not cry if there's no gore. But if there is, I'd rather have realistic violence rather than a comical gorefest. As I said sometime before, I'm fine with a serious sci-fi gore because less is more. Fountains of blood might seem 'fun' and 'controversial' to the younger audience but if you want it to be strong on the violence department, it has to be serious.

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Touchdown said:

Did you guys know that some monsters in DOOM 3 were NOT direct 'born-in-the-flames' demons from Hell?

Lost Souls require demonic possession of a human (something like a virus) and turning him/her into a demon.

Cherubs are implied to be kidnapped babies turned into monsters ("They took my baby").

One could argue Trites and Vagary are also humans turned into monsters considering their very humane features.

Hellknights are the most interesting. When you're in Hell, HKs have a different look with various carvings on their skin. One of those carvings is a pentagram on a forehead. What's interesting is that at exactly one point in the game (in Hell) you encounter a number of possessed humans. Here's the thing: they have the exact same pentagram on their foreheads AND their skin is overgrowing their eyes (and HKs have no eyes). It might suggest that Hellknights are in fact humans twisted into those monstrous beasts.

a note: these are just theories based on observations. You can say that 'they look human because Hell wants you to be disturbed even more' but I kind of like them anyway.


Those theories sound interesting and honestly, they don't go against Doom lore for me. In fact, knowing how the demons were made would definitely make them more interesting. Just as long as they're monsters from hell, then that's fine with me. The demonic, hellish element of Doom must remain or it won't feel like Doom at all. You're not fighting some mutated or infected humans. You're fighting demons or demons who were once humans, not something that sounds like it came straight out of Resident Evil.

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Touchdown said:

I see gore as something that enhances the realism, not as a selling point. Same as physics. I don't care for gimmicky physics, I care about physics that reinforce the idea of a believable world. I will not cry if there's no gore. But if there is, I'd rather have realistic violence rather than a comical gorefest. As I said sometime before, I'm fine with a serious sci-fi gore because less is more. Fountains of blood might seem 'fun' and 'controversial' to the younger audience but if you want it to be strong on the violence department, it has to be serious.


I agree, but I would definitely cry if there were no gore in the new Doom. That's just blasphemy.

I just want basic gore which includes all enemies being gibbable including the big enemies, dismemberment, head explosions, and also non disintegrating corpses and permanent blood.

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Touchdown said:

I see gore as something that enhances the realism, not as a selling point. Same as physics. I don't care for gimmicky physics, I care about physics that reinforce the idea of a believable world. I will not cry if there's no gore. But if there is, I'd rather have realistic violence rather than a comical gorefest. As I said sometime before, I'm fine with a serious sci-fi gore because less is more. Fountains of blood might seem 'fun' and 'controversial' to the younger audience but if you want it to be strong on the violence department, it has to be serious.


The original DOOM's highest priority was function. They just wanted everything to feel good. The level design obviously being the best example; it was abstract and wasn't based in reality at all, but they were a joy to navigate.

The same thing is true regarding the speed of the character. Based in reality? No, but it was fun, and it makes for much different gameplay than the slow, cover-based movement of today's shooters.

That's what DOOM 4 has to emphasize again. Every big-budget shooter in this modern era is striving for realism, emotional storytelling, etc. If id Software is deciding between something that's either fun or realistic, I hope they choose the former.

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Simply dissociating Doom from heavy metal feels kind of wrong to me. Just about the entirety of classic Doom is built around metal aesthetics, with the Satanic imagery, the over-the-top gore (for its time!) and the even more over-the-top badassery of one guy literally badassing his way out of hell. Even throughout the Williams/Midway games, that was kept mostly intact, and as far as visuals go, I find Doom 64 to go even further down the metal road. I grew up with Doom 64 and am way fond of atmo-horror Doom, but much of that is really just because the Williams/Midway audio is so effing amazing.

At any rate, with id's known reliance on blank-slate non-characters, I'm sort of pining for some decent female or non-white rep. Hell, while we're at it, LGBT rep. OH SHIT HERE COMES THE FREEZEPEACH BRIGADE

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I hope they have a new story writer.... Graham Joyce was the bastard that fucked up DOOM 3. DOOM 3 was supposed to be a remake of the original. If that was the case...

Then DOOMGuy would have been fighting Communists in Central Asia and then getting deployed to Mars after assaulting his superior officer because his superior officer fired on innocent civilians.

Then he would be deployed to Phobos, where he fights through hangars, nuclear plants, toxin refineries, military bases, command control, laboratories, central processing, computer stations, and geological anomalies.

He then would fight his way through Deimos where Hell is merging with the overworld. And kill the Cyberdemon.

Then he would go to Hell itself and fight and kill the Spider Mastermind.

AND THE SOUL CUBE IS STUPID!!!!!

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CaptainW said:

At any rate, with id's known reliance on blank-slate non-characters, I'm sort of pining for some decent female or non-white rep. Hell, while we're at it, LGBT rep. OH SHIT HERE COMES THE FREEZEPEACH BRIGADE


I wouldn't mind a badass female character. Hell, it sounds like Linda Hamilton voiced the teaser trailer. She'd be a great choice.

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Doom is not about female characters, ethnic characters, or LGBT characters.

DOOM DOES NOT NEED THE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS BULLSHIT!

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS STUPID OVERSENSTIVE COMMUNIST LEFTIST BULLSHIT THAT WE HAVE ALL BEEN TRAINED TO DRINK LIKE KOOLAID!

DOOM shouldn't be politically correct. In fact DOOM should be so politically incorrect, it should have tons of gore, tons of dark comedy, and it should feature a European-American male protagonist that preferably looks like Ash Williams from Evil Dead in Dwayne Hick's costume.

DOOM is about one man's struggle against Hell. That's your story. His squad has been wiped out. The marine's going crazy, and he's going to fucking kill all of those damn demons in Hell and make them pay for what they have done to his squad and his pet rabbit.

DOOM is about loneliness and bleakness.

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