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Ribbiks

Slaughterfest 3 [Beta_C released, 05/08/2017]

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Ribbiks said:

it's a mystery! currently we don't really have a submission that I think is both suitable for the final slot, and geared for it (aka no monster teles).



ahh, faux pas!


We could design a map similar to map 30 from sf2011. I personally like large slaughter maps with BFG spamming and large hordes of monsters but so many players want maps with small hordes of monsters. I was thinking maybe make a mini-version of map 30 from sf2011.

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hihi. Some of the nice fellows over on ZDaemon ran through that betaR2 I posted, and they found a couple bugs:

map04 (Desecration - Rayzik): if more than 3 or so players, some players spawn and can't move/escape. aka MP starts are bugged.

map11 (Broken Mind - Archi): Line 695 has no first side.

map22 (Mult - gggmork): extreme lag at start of map due to all the zombiemen in the starting area. They suggested starting the players off in a small room somewhere and have them teleport to the main area.

Also apparently the following maps refuse to load at all in ZDaemon:
map27 (Red Recluse - ArmouredBlood)
map28 (dHoles - TimeOfDeath)
map32 (Three Lines - Phml)

I'm not 100% sure why, I'll have to try it myself and see what kind of errors I get. Maybe it was the nodebuilder used?


Also it's worth mentioning that once everything's more or less complete on the larger maps (e.g. 27,28,29), it would be worth building a reject table to improve performance, reduce lag, etc.

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Shit, missed sooooo much of this due to uni life, but I see it's somewhat close to completion. Perhaps I should still go through maps to see what's broken and whatnot.

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Ribbiks said:

hihi. Some of the nice fellows over on ZDaemon ran through that betaR2 I posted, and they found a couple bugs:

map04 (Desecration - Rayzik): if more than 3 or so players, some players spawn and can't move/escape. aka MP starts are bugged.

map11 (Broken Mind - Archi): Line 695 has no first side.

map22 (Mult - gggmork): extreme lag at start of map due to all the zombiemen in the starting area. They suggested starting the players off in a small room somewhere and have them teleport to the main area.

Also apparently the following maps refuse to load at all in ZDaemon:
map27 (Red Recluse - ArmouredBlood)
map28 (dHoles - TimeOfDeath)
map32 (Three Lines - Phml)

I'm not 100% sure why, I'll have to try it myself and see what kind of errors I get. Maybe it was the nodebuilder used?


Also it's worth mentioning that once everything's more or less complete on the larger maps (e.g. 27,28,29), it would be worth building a reject table to improve performance, reduce lag, etc.


When I tried the betaR2 that was posted, the maps worked just fine (I played them on ZDoom.) However, what I noticed was map27, Red Recluse, which had a missing key to the secrets, making them inaccessible.

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Ribbiks, I think the zdaemon issues might be because of too many things or something. I deleted a whole bunch of things from dholes and it loaded fine. The original map works fine in zdoom, so it sounds like a zdaemon bug.

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I don't have ZDaemon and don't feel like installing it to test, but if someone else wants to edit it to reduce lag that's fine. Or we can just say they're designed for prboom+.

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Alright, so I've begun testing these maps using the BetaR2 version and witness a random crash on map02. I didn't demo it and I'm waaaaay too tired to replicate it now. This happened in the fight where you open up another room with a soulsphere - twas fighting the horde and boom, PRBoom-Plus died on me.

I'll try fda it tomorrow if I can get the same result as a better example. Sorry for lack of proof.

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The cause of maps not loading in ZDaemon is probably due to extended nodes not being supported yet. Had the same issue with some SF2012 maps...

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Ahh, thanks for the heads-up Alteus. I know a map or two in sf12 was big enough such that extended nodes were required, but I don't think that's the case for any sf13 maps. So if that's what's causing the crashes then a fix may be as easy as just rebuilding nodes with standard zdbsp or something.

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I know dholes doesn't use extended nodes. Here's two versions of dholes, one normal (doesn't load), the other with almost all things removed (loads fine). But I don't think it's as simple as there being "too many things", because nuts.wad loads fine in zdaemon.

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OK guys I'm going to let the cat out of the bag.

Revenants are Nazi experiments, this is why they're so tall despite looking human-like. Also why so many of them are included in slaughtermaps. "Gameplay"? Haha, like anyone cares about that. No, here at Slaughterfest 20XX we are a secret society of renowned historians fighting a shadow war against the Fifth Reich.

Everytime you kill a revenant in a Doom map, it sends an electrical shock through the tubes of the Internet right into Hitler's brain jar, which stops evil scientists from uploading his consciousness on a SSD. Despite that, his influence still manages to seep through and results in things like Transformers 2, Watch Dogs's storyline or Miley Cyrus, but if it weren't for the dedicated efforts of Doomers, players and mappers alike, it could be much worse, like the Doom 4 doomguy modeled around and voiceacted by Shia LaBeouf.

We are the last line of defense. Be a patriot, work for freedom, play a slaughtermap today.

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That was the most gggmorky post written not by the man himself i've ever seen. I immediately had to obey of course.

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In MAP01, after hitting the switch next to the red skull bars, nothing happened. I was playing with Odamex on the CoffeeNet server on IDE.

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Looks awesome, I died many a time in the original area and less times later on ironically.

I got all the skullcards and the blue keycard. After I went through the teleporter after the yellow and red skull pillars, I hit the switch in the subsequent room (similar to one across the room earlier in the map) and I ended up back in the "central" area that you teleport into originally. From there I could make no further progress. I thought the teleporter portal was going to reactivate but it didn't, and I retraced every area I had access to and couldn't find anything. I was yet to find the red keycard for the red door back at the start, but I had no way of getting back there anyway. I don't know if I missed the keycard that would allow me to make further progress, or if making further progress would get me the keycard, but I was able to do neither. Not sure if I just missed something or if it was a bug. I was at the 5k+ kill mark so I didn't think I had much further to go!

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Hey Archi, cool map! Glad we have a beastly one to take the final slot.

have a whole lot of time on your hands? here's a FDA with saves (cl-1): https://www.mediafire.com/?odc7v23fu972yp5


Overall I thought it was an interesting map. I liked nonlinearity, though I get the idea all other routes are inferior to the one that guns it straight for the pink bfg, all the other auxialliary paths (RSK, YSK) become greatly simplified with the spammy weapon. The RSK in particular, seemed pretty brutal. I think my demo (and deathcount in each area) will convey my thoughts on the difficulty of each area. Also I found a good amount of exploits, hurray!


Here are some things I could be improved:

- the pink BFG room (and the fight after it), I think these areas are just straightup poorly designed. In my demo I ended up door-camping everything. I don't think the courtroom containing the pink BFG and the balconies above it should be connected, the fight up there would be a lot more interesting if you couldn't just jump down and BFG some cybs. The whole lift setup pretty much makes it impossible to try and get back up legitimately anyways, so camping is way too tempting of an option (bad!). So yeah, my idea would be: expand upon the pink bfg encounter, and let the player get it from the lower area. And block off the upper balconies so the player has to do the upper area without running away.

- I'm not a huge fan of being given an invul automatically along the BSK route, why not just put it nearby on the floor and allow the player to make the tradeoff as to whether or not they want to use it immediately? Also I think that area could use an armor or two, there's a bajillion medikits so I think a green armor would be welcome.

- The big void area felt a bit messy. There was no way I was going to waste 15 minutes BFGing all those cybs to death, and there seemed to be little reason to actually stick around and kill the caco/PE swarm, so I just gunned it back after I got the RK. Also, are the side areas in the big void cross completely optional? They didn't seem to affect when I could grab the RK. I have one idea that might work: after getting the RK why not have additional enemies (more flying mobs, or perhaps some revs or something?) get revealed by the big circular pentagram room, that way you can't simply run back and hide in there. or at least not as easily. And maybe have it so that after you kill the AV horde the cybs on pillars get telefragged or crushed or something?

- I'm not 100% sure what the final fight was all about, it felt kind of disappointing. Like, you're fighting in this big surreal void area, seems like that would be the final battle (ending with a pack of AVs, a cliche at this point :p), but then you're back into the vanilla techbase for one last weird romp. Which brings me to my next point...

- The final fight, what was up with this exactly? You can just camp one of those side rooms all day and everything just kills itself. Idk, not a very fitting climax imo. There seemed to be some weird teleporter gimmick on the floor, but I'm not sure it worked properly. Maybe when I played with complevel-1 it disabled monster telefragging or something? I noticed that one enemy tele'd into the "chamber" then none tele'd in after it, but true map30 behavior would've had them spawn-fragging themselves to death, which I imagine was the entire point of the room? Just a fun gimmick to showcase the map30 behavior? Maybe the problem's on my end. Either way you should remove those 2 rooms on the side that you can camp.

- Last but not least, here's some various misalignments and other such errors: http://imgur.com/a/yAtcV

(ignore the fact that the map looks pretty ugly in those shots. I was playing with gamma4 and -nomusic for maximum focus, I didn't want to record a demo with too many stupid deaths :D)

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here's a FDA with saves (cl-1)


Wait... This works? As in, with that complevel can you bring up the save menu and instantly save/load, as opposed to the -skipsec way and its loading times?

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Phml said:

Wait... This works? As in, with that complevel can you bring up the save menu and instantly save/load, as opposed to the -skipsec way and its loading times?

This works with cl-1.

Update: http://www.mediafire.com/?c0jxyfojau8pu3w

I didn't change insta invul because there's two switches and it's really hard to survive if you press them in incorrect order and invul will be on the other side.

Yeah, I'm bad at huge maps.

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Archi said:

I didn't change insta invul because there's two switches and it's really hard to survive if you press them in incorrect order and invul will be on the other side.


ahh that makes sense. didn't think about that. Though hypothetically you could make the order mandatory, i.e. switch on one side reveals switch on the other, then that switch starts the encounter.


Also yah phml. I found out about that not too long ago (from Archi incidentally), pretty much removed all frustrations of FDA'ing on hard stuff :D

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arguably significantly less convenient than quickly spamming f2/f3, especially if you plan on dying a lot. One thing it does ensure though is that the boom-compatyness works as intended. I'm not 100% sure how default complevel works, according to the thread in the demos forum it's some variant of MBF compatibility? I wonder if there's anything in cl9 that doesn't function as intended in cl-1?

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AFAIK many (all?) of the options in Options > Setup > Doom Compatibility affect the gameplay of complevel -1, whereas none of them do in complevel 9, and a few do in complevel 11 (MBF), etc. I could certainly be wrong though.

And yeah not as convenient as quickloading (quicksaving works fine though) but does ensure compatibility.

edit: I also know nothing about gameplay options being saved in demos or not, another thing to maybe consider.

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