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joe-ilya

Doom II had a preused texture?/Doom2 beta discussion.

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Technician said:

Wait, so Doom 2 monster attributes are found in early versions of Doom?

It seems like they must have been programming Doom 2 before they even announced it officially. I wonder if they had any other monster ideas that didn't make the cut?

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Whoooaaaa, Revenants used to fire their homing missiles from a 45 degree angles instead of straight ahead. It looks awesome and makes the homing aspect of it much clearer. I wonder why they switched it back. I suppose it would make them harder (from a mapper's perspective) to use in hordes or in crowded area without instigating too much infighting, but I'm trying to think of parts in Doom 2 where that would be an obvious problem.

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I find the way the Revenant "hops" when firing his rockets to be hilariously goofy looking. I'm also glad they ended up getting their own rocket/fireball sprite, and that only about half ended up homing in the final product. It seems odd for a normal looking rocket to travel so slowly, for some reason.

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Technician said:

Wait, so Doom 2 monster attributes are found in early versions of Doom?

Not just monsters. In version 1.5, selecting the shotgun after IDKFA crashes the game (in Doom 1), as it gives you the super shotgun without checking which IWAD you're using.

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I know plutonia (final doom) was released after Doom2.
When going to MAP33-MAP35 it says the map's called just like the MAP01-MAP01-MAP03 of plutonia in the newer versions.
What were these called before plutonia was released?

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joe-ilya said:

What were these called before plutonia was released?

Nothing. I guess you'd get a crash.

The reason why you get Plutonia names for MAP33-35 is that there's a big table with level names that list them all in the order Ult. Doom, Doom II, Plutonia, TNT. So when looking for Doom II MAP33, it takes the offset for Doom II MAP01, adds 32 to it, and goes there. That brings it outside of the Doom II area, but still in the name array so it's cool.

Likewise, try MAP33 in Plutonia and you'll get the name for MAP01 of TNT. But now, try MAP33 of TNT, and you'll get out of the level name array bounds, and you'll probably get a crash.

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Gez said:

But now, try MAP33 of TNT, and you'll get out of the level name array bounds, and you'll probably get a crash.

TNT leads me to E1M1-E1M3.

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Vanilla Doom almost never crashes because of out-of-bounds reads. It gets away with all kinds of murder.

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I've been working on pulling doom exe data and creating a sort of rudimentary dehacked for all doom versions.
I can read mobjinfo_t and state_t structures from all doom versions I have available and have learned some new information.

Even Doom 1.25 SW has Doom 2 beta code in it.
Archvile
Revenant
Mancubus
Chaingun Guy
Hell Knight
No Pain Elemental
No Super Shotgun
No Megasphere
No Flaming Barrel
No Item Respawn Fog

also, raise states did not exist in Doom 1.4 SW and prior.

EDIT:
Doom 1.4 SWP came before 1.4 SW and lacked these in comparison...
Had no item respawn fog
Had no flaming barrel

Doom 1.5 was the first version with...
Super Shotgun
Item Respawn Fog
Keen
Hanging Body 1 (73)
Hanging Body 2 (74)
Hanging Body 3 (75)
Hanging Body 4 (76)
Hanging Body 5 (77)
Hanging Body 6 (78)
Pool of Blood 1 (79)
Pool of Blood 2 (80)
Brains (81)

Keys were in deathmatch in Doom 1.0
Radiation Suit affected item count in Doom 1.0 and 1.1

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What is Doom 1.4 SWP vs. Doom 1.4 SW (And, can you please post them somewhere - they're shareware, right?). I try to maintain a copy of all of them, but do not have one or the other of 1.4. Thanks in advance!

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kb1 said:

What is Doom 1.4 SWP vs. Doom 1.4 SW (And, can you please post them somewhere - they're shareware, right?). I try to maintain a copy of all of them, but do not have one or the other of 1.4. Thanks in advance!


Did you get my pm?

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Randy87 said:

Did you get my pm?

What's the point of sending a PM if you still replie in the thread?

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There definitely is a point: To tell certain information to someone in privacy (when it's not desired for other people to see it), only notifying him that he received it in the thread. Completely legit, in my view. Generally speaking, of course.

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joe-ilya said:

What's the point of sending a PM if you still replie in the thread?


I'm unsure as to the moderator's views on 1.4 SWP. I doubt they care, but better safe then sorry.

I've had problems discussing it before.

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Setting aside w4r3z requests (note: this is not a w4r3z request), what is 1.4 SWP? Is it 1.4 shareware patched to work with the registered doom 1.2 WAD? I recall there were some patches to that effect floating around in the days of the 1.4 and 1.5 public betas.

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Urban Space Cowboy said:

Setting aside w4r3z requests (note: this is not a w4r3z request), what is 1.4 SWP? Is it 1.4 shareware patched to work with the registered doom 1.2 WAD? I recall there were some patches to that effect floating around in the days of the 1.4 and 1.5 public betas.


I don't really know the history of it. The P stands for pirated. Someone leaked (stole?) a 1.4 version of doom back in the day. If someone has any more information, it would be interesting to hear.

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Randy87: Yep, I got the PM finally, but it was text only (I'll see what I got tonight). Did you post them, and were they subsequently deleted?.

This was not a warez request. Again, shareware. Now, I didn't know P meant "pirated". (Isn't "patched" a more accurate description?) Besides, is an early leak/patch of a shareware wad considered warez?

If that really is an issue to someone, I'd like to prevent my source port from running it, meaning that I, at least, need an MD5 sum for the IWAD - can anyone provide that?.

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I'm a little confused by my own files here. I have three 1.4 leaked betas. All three identical in contents, but the one I found online has a different 94 timestamp.

Also, they are apparently on the archive. So I assume it's cool.
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=historic/doom14bl.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=historic/doom14bt.zip

Leaked version is just an exe anyway.

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Anyone else remember the Episode 1 skybox being used in DOOM 2 screenshots originally? I kind of like how they made DOOM 2 look more atmospheric.

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Not finding a 1.3 version - I'm not sure it exists, at least not publicly.

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joe-ilya said:

Why did it stop?

Because unlike the other artifact items, which are generally always useful to some degree (or, in the case of invisibility, always useless), radiation suits are highly situational. They're utterly useless if you're not planning on a nukage swim, but indispensable if you are. It's almost never a good idea to grab a radiation suit as soon as you encounter one, instead you should save it until you need it. Often, you end up never needing all of the radiation suits you come across, and exit the level with some left behind.

The most blatant example would be the suits that appear on easy difficulties on E2M2: Containment Area, which only exist to help you out if you accidentally fall in the nukage near the exit. It's kind of annoying to have to deliberately jump into the nukage for a radiation suit you wouldn't have needed if you didn't jump in, just to get 100% items.

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Foxpup said:

Because unlike the other artifact items, which are generally always useful to some degree (or, in the case of invisibility, always useless), radiation suits are highly situational. They're utterly useless if you're not planning on a nukage swim, but indispensable if you are. It's almost never a good idea to grab a radiation suit as soon as you encounter one, instead you should save it until you need it. Often, you end up never needing all of the radiation suits you come across, and exit the level with some left behind.

I do the same with the soulsphere, the megasphere, the godsphere and the invisibility.(and some of the non-artificat items)

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joe-ilya said:

I do the same with the soulsphere, the megasphere, the godsphere and the invisibility.(and some of the non-artificat items)

While all items should be conserved (save the All-Map) until you can make optimal use of them, grabbing them before you really need them always provides some benefit, except in rather uncommon circumstances. Radiation suits, on the other hand, are never beneficial at all if grabbed when they're not needed, and in fact they're often never needed at all.

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joe-ilya said:

Well, you can.

Only the executables. Until we get one of the beta IWADs (probably never, though it'd be nice at least to have as a patch if piracy is a concern to Zenimax), all we can do is approximate it with modified Doom 2 1.666 IWADs; probably grabbing a few things from Doom 1 like its old versions of flaming barrels, as well as deleting/replacing unrecognized decorations/items that weren't in earlier versions (the beta engine crashes when trying to load these maps from the final).

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And then there's this weird thing...



It looks like no frame actually in the IWADs, and cannot be found in any of the Alphas/Betas either.

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